Teams & Riders Team Movistar-thread

[mariposa]

Re: Re:

I indeed would rather see Valverde more focussing on the one day races and just ride one GT: Vuelta.[/quote]

Completely agree. Without the obsession with GTs, especially the TDF, he would probably have even more wins to his name.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re: Re:

Next year I think you give Carapaz have another shot at the Giro. Valverde said he's not going to the Tour next year. He is going after another Vuelta and maybe go to the Giro again. I'm thinking maybe send Carapaz to the Giro again as race leader and send Valverde with him to teach/guide him? Send whoever the Tour and then the Vuelta send Valverde as sole leader with one more shot at trying for the overall or at least podium history. With him I'd again send Carapaz along with Soler and maybe Landa. Landa has said as long as he gets the Tour he's more than happy to race for Valverde at the Vuelta.

I scanned the post, and mentally picked out the bolded as "He is going (When?) After another Vuelta": I thought you had just announced his resignation for him.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

Movistar interested in Ecuadorian Jonathan Caicedo

http://www.ciclismointernacional.com/dos-equipos-world-tour-se-disputan-al-ecuatoriano-jonathan-caicedo/

Caicedo would be a good move for them, he's already been approached elsewhere, Astana I think. I definitely think Ecuador is the coming nation, they've got a decent factory of talent up in the Tulcán area, close to the Colombian border, and riders like Carapaz and Narváez coming through are showing that there's potential there. As well as Caicedo winning the Vuelta a Colombia as an extranjero, which is usually reserved for older journeymen like Sevilla and Rujano, you've got Jefferson Cepeda moving to Europe to ride for Caja Rural, I think they'll turn him pro for 2019 (this is Jefferson Cepeda Hernández, not Jefferson Cepeda Ortíz, which could get confusing given time).

I would be surprised if both Quintana and Landa disappeared, even if they managed to get their hands on somebody like Más as a result; the team is going to have to choose between one or the other to avoid annoying both of them, but Valverde won't be around forever and they need some kind of succession plan rather than becoming a completely headless team seeing as they don't even have a decently durable sprinter or two to pick up some placements and bail them out like they had in 2011.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Next year I think you give Carapaz have another shot at the Giro. Valverde said he's not going to the Tour next year. He is going after another Vuelta and maybe go to the Giro again. I'm thinking maybe send Carapaz to the Giro again as race leader and send Valverde with him to teach/guide him? Send whoever the Tour and then the Vuelta send Valverde as sole leader with one more shot at trying for the overall or at least podium history. With him I'd again send Carapaz along with Soler and maybe Landa. Landa has said as long as he gets the Tour he's more than happy to race for Valverde at the Vuelta.

I scanned the post, and mentally picked out the bolded as "He is going (When?) After another Vuelta": I thought you had just announced his resignation for him.

Next year. He wants one more shot at it next year without the Tour before it.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Who would have thought Carapaz would be the highest placed rider from Movistar in GC in the 3 Grand Tours?

Thing about that is if Pinot finishes the Giro Carapaz ends up 5th in the Giro which is the same as Valverde's 5th here. So that he ended up 4th, I do not put stock in it as any better than Valverde's 5th here.

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

Apparently Valverde said on Spanish TV in an interview yesterday that he is NOT doing the Tour next year and that he's going after the Vuelta next year. He's undecided whether he races the Giro yet, but he's considering it.

Also last fall he said that he didn't want to ride the Tour but then the team forced him to do so we should wait the team presentation to really know what he'll ride.

Anyway the Giro could be very good for him next year with the route rumored, probably even better than 2016 considering that the long multi mountain stage will be the Cuneo-Pinerolo with 60 kms of slight descent/flat after Sestriere and no one will be so crazy to do something on Izoard with 150+ kms to go so will be a large group finish in which no one will lose time and I'm still doubtful about Gavia because Vegni added it to his banned list after the 2014 neutralized descent fiasco. Like I said in the Giro thread with the murito MTT he has also a great shot to complete his GT leader jerseys set in the first stage.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Apparently Valverde said on Spanish TV in an interview yesterday that he is NOT doing the Tour next year and that he's going after the Vuelta next year. He's undecided whether he races the Giro yet, but he's considering it.

Also last fall he said that he didn't want to ride the Tour but then the team forced him to do so we should wait the team presentation to really know what he'll ride.

Anyway the Giro could be very good for him next year with the route rumored, probably even better than 2016 considering that the long multi mountain stage will be the Cuneo-Pinerolo with 60 kms of slight descent/flat after Sestriere and no one will be so crazy to do something on Izoard with 150+ kms to go so will be a large group finish in which no one will lose time and I'm still doubtful about Gavia because Vegni added it to his banned list after the 2014 neutralized descent fiasco. Like I said in the Giro thread with the murito MTT he has also a great shot to complete his GT leader jerseys set in the first stage.

I have a feeling he may be more insistent this year, esp if he believes that racing the Tour cost him the Vuelta podium. Plus he's said he wants to go back to the Giro, but the GT he'll skip is the Tour as he won't miss la Vuelta as he loves it too much.

 

[Koronin]

WTF? Mr Unzue basically said they fulfilled their goals with the team title? A team like this should have much higher goals and this title should not be one that "fulfills" the team's goals. If this was a smaller team I could see it fulfilling their goals. Sorry but the only reason this Vuelta isn't a full disaster is Alejandro's 2 stage wins and his green jersey. The team title has nothing to do with the race not being a disaster. When you have 3 riders finish in the top 20 in GC it's likely you have a very good chance of winning the team title.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

Next year I think you give Carapaz have another shot at the Giro. Valverde said he's not going to the Tour next year. He is going after another Vuelta and maybe go to the Giro again. I'm thinking maybe send Carapaz to the Giro again as race leader and send Valverde with him to teach/guide him? Send whoever the Tour and then the Vuelta send Valverde as sole leader with one more shot at trying for the overall or at least podium history. With him I'd again send Carapaz along with Soler and maybe Landa. Landa has said as long as he gets the Tour he's more than happy to race for Valverde at the Vuelta.

I scanned the post, and mentally picked out the bolded as "He is going (When?) After another Vuelta": I thought you had just announced his resignation for him.

Next year. He wants one more shot at it next year without the Tour before it.

Is he also not going to push all-out for stage wins in the first week? Yates showed the true method for winning the Vuelta, having learned from his Giro mistakes. The race can be lost in the first week, but to win it you have to survive the 3rd week.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Next year I think you give Carapaz have another shot at the Giro. Valverde said he's not going to the Tour next year. He is going after another Vuelta and maybe go to the Giro again. I'm thinking maybe send Carapaz to the Giro again as race leader and send Valverde with him to teach/guide him? Send whoever the Tour and then the Vuelta send Valverde as sole leader with one more shot at trying for the overall or at least podium history. With him I'd again send Carapaz along with Soler and maybe Landa. Landa has said as long as he gets the Tour he's more than happy to race for Valverde at the Vuelta.

I scanned the post, and mentally picked out the bolded as "He is going (When?) After another Vuelta": I thought you had just announced his resignation for him.

Next year. He wants one more shot at it next year without the Tour before it.

Is he also not going to push all-out for stage wins in the first week? Yates showed the true method for winning the Vuelta, having learned from his Giro mistakes. The race can be lost in the first week, but to win it you have to survive the 3rd week.

Who knows. He originally wasn't supposed to be going for the podium in this Vuelta and it seems changed his mind part way through the race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Maybe its time to get rid of all the Colombians soon. None are really delivering - lets see what Quintana has for 2019 Tour de France. If he doesnt deliver, they should definitely get rid of him and go 100% after Enric Mas and build around him, Carapaz and Soler. Valverde will obviously still be there and Landa, I dont know.

 

[Moviestar]

With Movistar i also wonder if the riders don't get to much freedom during their training sessions, especially noticeable with the (decreasing) performances of the Colombians, but also the likes of a Fernandez, Pedrero etc. I don't count Carapaz and Soler in, as it's logical that young riders as such will progress fast. If you read how the trainers of Sky but also Lotto Jumbo hold their riders tight during their preparations ..these teams really benefit from such an approach with the recent progress of a SK, Roglic, Bennett and even a Roosen in the case of Lotto.

Maybe Movistar has less budget now, with the salaries of Valverde, Quintana and Landa and the women's team.

 

[Koronin]

Valv.Piti, I'm right there with you on that.

Moviestar, they may but I've heard it referred to as the Spanish way. That was part of why Landa went there, he hated the structure at Sky. With Fernandez his problem last year and this year has been injuries. He needs to stay healthy and see what happens. He also lives in Murcia and actually has moved closer to Valverde so he can train with Valverde more often. Thing is I don't see anything changing there anytime soon. I know Dowsett and Sutherland talked about culture shock when they joined Movistar.

 

[Moviestar]

Very strange transfer with Mas Bonet. Possibly as replacement of De La Parte, but still he has more quality than Mas Bonet. On the brightside, One Mas in, one Mas to go

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nah, Lluís Más is exactly the kind of rider they need, he's just not as strong as the guys they've historically had for that role. Can do punchy stuff, decent on the flat, a real workhorse (watch the 2016 Tour of Turkey again). A year earlier he did a Bertogliati there too. The problem is that he's not as strong as, say, Gorka Izagirre or Pablo Lastras, because that's the kind of role he's there for. They lost a lot of rouleurs and all-rounders over the last couple of years for a variety of reasons - Sutherland, Dowsett, Malori, Izagirre x2, Lastras, Lobato, Visconti - and apart from Erviti and Bennati there isn't too much experience on that front, though Oliveira and Sütterlin are decent and of course they've brought in Roelandts. I guess Amador can half fit that side of the team too, he nearly got 2nd in Gent-Wevelgem a few years ago after all, but he's also more of a climbing help than those and has those Giro top 10s to his name too. Carretero and Bico are still young, and Arcas is doomed to be one of the guys the team sends to the races they don't really want to do forever at this stage I think.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I wondered my Movistar cared so much about Betancur racing at the end of this season and then I realized he actually has a contract for 2019 as well... good lord.

 

[Moviestar]

Re:

I wondered my Movistar cared so much about Betancur racing at the end of this season and then I realized he actually has a contract for 2019 as well... good lord.

I foresee a DNS, so basically they are with 6 :Neutral:

 

[Koronin]

Re:

I wondered my Movistar cared so much about Betancur racing at the end of this season and then I realized he actually has a contract for 2019 as well... good lord.

I didn't understand why they gave him a contract through next year when they resigned him to begin with. After this year, I really don't understand.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Carapaz said he would be riding the Giro and Vuelta, same as this year.

Valverde said he would be liking to skip the Tour and ride Giro and Vuelta instead. He will probably share leadership with Carapaz in the Giro, at least Carapaz will be a protected rider much like Valverde was in La Vuelta this year. Valverde could be winning a couple of stages early and grab the maglia rosa while Carapaz can sit a bit more back and see what he has left in the tank for the last week.

Landa and Quintana will most likely have very similar programs to this year, Tour and then Vuelta. When Carapaz and Valverde wont be there, I reckon they will be forced to send Soler again to be a 100% domestique.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Carapaz said he would be riding the Giro and Vuelta, same as this year.

Valverde said he would be liking to skip the Tour and ride Giro and Vuelta instead. He will probably share leadership with Carapaz in the Giro, at least Carapaz will be a protected rider much like Valverde was in La Vuelta this year. Valverde could be winning a couple of stages early and grab the maglia rosa while Carapaz can sit a bit more back and see what he has left in the tank for the last week.

Landa and Quintana will most likely have very similar programs to this year, Tour and then Vuelta. When Carapaz and Valverde wont be there, I reckon they will be forced to send Soler again to be a 100% domestique.

That would be my guess as to what makes sense as well. Or at least to us.

 

[Tonton]

The problem with Movistar, as I see it, is that they collect riders who can top-10 in a GT but roles are not clearly defined. I remember Delgado, the torch was passed on to BigMig, then Olano, who didn't quite pan out to be the next big thing...

Now it's a lot of chiefs and not many indians. Carapaz? Meh...Haimar comes to mind. Yet he's talked about as a potential leader. Non factor at Il Giro, great placing, lucky him, good for him. Soler? Same thing. With Quintana, Valverde, and Landa, even if he's better than we think he is, he'll never get a true shot with a full team at his service, we'll never know how good he can be.

Landa could have won a Tour. Has been a factor in GTs, but it's Valverde's team and Quintana is the leader, or vice versa, maybe...I'm lost here. I would argue that in a GT picture, he's the best of the three. Where does he fit?

The Sly business model is very different, roles are clear, Eusebio has to wake up to the smell of today's cycling. Piling up talent doesn't cut it.

 

[movingtarget]

They have to get rid of Betancur and fill his place with a really reliable domestique. Movistar doesn't have many of those even though Soler did some great work this season. With the reduction in team size now, it's even more important to have a good mix of riders. I see no point in having Valverde ride two grand tours per season at this stage of his career and he can still win shorter stage races and classics.

 

[Robert5091]

The Sly business model is very different, roles are clear, Eusebio has to wake up to the smell of today's cycling. Piling up talent doesn't cut it.

Typo or Fraudian slip?

 

[Tim Booth]

Carapaz? Meh...Haimar comes to mind. Yet he's talked about as a potential leader. Non factor at Il Giro, great placing, lucky him, good for him.

Tour d'Italie - Richard Carapaz : "Je vise le maillot rose"
http://www.cyclismactu.net/news-tour-d-italie-richard-carapaz-je-vise-le-maillot-rose-78739.html

 

[Cance > TheRest]

The problem with Movistar, as I see it, is that they collect riders who can top-10 in a GT but roles are not clearly defined. I remember Delgado, the torch was passed on to BigMig, then Olano, who didn't quite pan out to be the next big thing...

Now it's a lot of chiefs and not many indians. Carapaz? Meh...Haimar comes to mind. Yet he's talked about as a potential leader. Non factor at Il Giro, great placing, lucky him, good for him. Soler? Same thing. With Quintana, Valverde, and Landa, even if he's better than we think he is, he'll never get a true shot with a full team at his service, we'll never know how good he can be.

Landa could have won a Tour. Has been a factor in GTs, but it's Valverde's team and Quintana is the leader, or vice versa, maybe...I'm lost here. I would argue that in a GT picture, he's the best of the three. Where does he fit?

The Sly business model is very different, roles are clear, Eusebio has to wake up to the smell of today's cycling. Piling up talent doesn't cut it.

I agree with the point made, but I don't necessarily think Soler/Carapaz is a part of the problem. They are young riders, who have barely just had their breakthroughs and they've had fewer opportunities to ride for themselves this year than the big trio.