thehog said:These are my two favorite Sky/Walsh books
That Walsh one looks like it belongs on a twitter parody account. Nice work, Hog.
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That Walsh one looks like it belongs on a twitter parody account. Nice work, Hog.
Re: Re:
Jimmy...Jimmy....Jimmy....
You aren't understanding the rules of the game. One Sky/Brit bashing thread was closed, so another must be opened. Did you not realise this would happen the moment the other thread was locked
Anyway, it is a valid thread topic I think. Wanting to play devil's advocate, I just popped over to the Italian amazon site to try and see if there were books about Astana and Nibali. Not a very fair comparison, because Astana doesn't have the pure association with one nation in terms of team registration and principal riders, in the way that Sky does, but nevertheless there were only two books that I could find about Nibali. This is in stark comparison to Hitch's long list although a couple of his entries are pushing it a bit.
In a sense Sky is a much more homogenous project than any other team since, maybe Mapei, and therefore the literature will coagulate around the one team. But I agree with Hitch in so far as there are a lot of spin offs from this team. I'm not sure it is fair to tie it into doping, as I think all the GT winners (and maybe other race winners too) are doping. I don't believe there is any non-doping GT winning 'control group' against which Sky can be compared. It is up to the teams to make what they can out of their race wins, but I suppose we shouldn't be surprised if a team that is paid for by a media company subsequently makes the most of the media.
By the way, I think you should add team kits to the list of money making ventures. If I see another flabby middle-aged man panting his way along the road on a Pinarello, and stuffed into black and light-blue lycra I'll probably scream.
JimmyFingers said:The Hitch said:I don't think anyone ever said anything of the sort.JimmyFingers said:
BTW why are you so obsessed about this thread existing? Its no big deal, its just a thread.
Have you even read any of these books. If you had, and you'd seen some of the absolutely bats*** insane arguments Sky and their authors make in them, you might understand why we would want a seperate thread in which to host a discussion about them.
Particularly funny, from memory, are the claims that Froome trains 4 hours every night with his strava off so that his coaches don't find out and the piece de resistance, the portrayal of Rod Ellingworth as "anti doping"
You equated them releasing books with criminal gangs inserting themselves into the upper echelons of society, so they become institutionalised and difficult to bring to justice. As I said, embarrassing. As for obsession, this is your thread, you posted it, so who is the one obsessed?
Jimmy...Jimmy....Jimmy....
You aren't understanding the rules of the game. One Sky/Brit bashing thread was closed, so another must be opened. Did you not realise this would happen the moment the other thread was locked
Anyway, it is a valid thread topic I think. Wanting to play devil's advocate, I just popped over to the Italian amazon site to try and see if there were books about Astana and Nibali. Not a very fair comparison, because Astana doesn't have the pure association with one nation in terms of team registration and principal riders, in the way that Sky does, but nevertheless there were only two books that I could find about Nibali. This is in stark comparison to Hitch's long list although a couple of his entries are pushing it a bit.
In a sense Sky is a much more homogenous project than any other team since, maybe Mapei, and therefore the literature will coagulate around the one team. But I agree with Hitch in so far as there are a lot of spin offs from this team. I'm not sure it is fair to tie it into doping, as I think all the GT winners (and maybe other race winners too) are doping. I don't believe there is any non-doping GT winning 'control group' against which Sky can be compared. It is up to the teams to make what they can out of their race wins, but I suppose we shouldn't be surprised if a team that is paid for by a media company subsequently makes the most of the media.
By the way, I think you should add team kits to the list of money making ventures. If I see another flabby middle-aged man panting his way along the road on a Pinarello, and stuffed into black and light-blue lycra I'll probably scream.
When there were no Brits winning the tour the 'journalists' had a lot of time on their hands and could get stuck in to the murky side of cycling. See how Richard Moore and Brian Smith were straight out to condemn Armstrong despite Smith in particular having made a living on being the guy who babysat young Lance and never saw anything dodgy. Now all the english speaking press are milking the Sky machine and need to keep on side to get access etc, no one is going to rock the boat.
UKADA would run a mile even if presented with a smoking gun WRT Sky doping. Sky would bankrupt them in court.
UKADA would run a mile even if presented with a smoking gun WRT Sky doping. Sky would bankrupt them in court.
To maximize profits, they should structure their book business and target various groups, e.g. women (Sky: 50 Shades Of Black), childern (Chris Potter In The Castle Of Marginal Gains), cooking fans (Marginal Diet: Lean And Powerful), home bricoleurs (High Beds: Sleep In Altitude - And Don't Forget The Pillows), holiday travellers (The Power Of Motorhomes), etc.
and some ask why people like astana better...
how many book are out there about vino, shefer and zeits?
how many book are out there about vino, shefer and zeits?
Re:
He only turned on Lance in one of the most pathetic cases of a rat fleeing a sinking ship, after the reasoned decision.
Maybe I'm misreading your point about Brian Smith (if we are talking about the Eurosport hack behind JTL) was a close friend of Armstrong and spend his time on Eurosport assuring everyone that Lance was clean and Landis and Hamilton just bitter.bobbins said:
He only turned on Lance in one of the most pathetic cases of a rat fleeing a sinking ship, after the reasoned decision.
Re:
But yeah, Sky fans do seem to like reading a lot. Who would've thunk it?
Not to rehash some of what was said on a recently locked thread but there are books about Vino in Kazakh. He's a freaking national hero there. Loved this apparent mistranslation in particular "the Olympic champion will be opened in the name of so-called public funds".jens_attacks said:
But yeah, Sky fans do seem to like reading a lot. Who would've thunk it?
Re: Re:
Haha yes, one thread get torpedoed and another springs from the ashes.
All cyclists and cycling teams, nay all successful sportsman make money from endorsements and the like, it pays (literally) to have as many sidelines as possible, hence the CVNDSH range, the Wiggo Fred Perry shirts, and of course replica kits and books. It's part and parcel of the industry, just about promoting your brand and lining your pockets while you do. After all you've only got until your mid thirties or so to do it. While I'm sure it it benefits dopers to have friends in high places (look at Jimmy Saville) I firmly believe releasing a book or having a clothing line isn't going to achieve that aim.
Getting a knighthood might though, eh Bradley?
The amount of books Sky has released is just a huge red herrings, but this is the clinic and there's nothing more fun than conjuring conspiracy out of thin air, throw in some mocking memes of the Dawg or Wiggo and bingo, you have the classic clinic thread. Fun for all the family.
wendybnt said:JimmyFingers said:The Hitch said:I don't think anyone ever said anything of the sort.JimmyFingers said:
BTW why are you so obsessed about this thread existing? Its no big deal, its just a thread.
Have you even read any of these books. If you had, and you'd seen some of the absolutely bats*** insane arguments Sky and their authors make in them, you might understand why we would want a seperate thread in which to host a discussion about them.
Particularly funny, from memory, are the claims that Froome trains 4 hours every night with his strava off so that his coaches don't find out and the piece de resistance, the portrayal of Rod Ellingworth as "anti doping"
You equated them releasing books with criminal gangs inserting themselves into the upper echelons of society, so they become institutionalised and difficult to bring to justice. As I said, embarrassing. As for obsession, this is your thread, you posted it, so who is the one obsessed?
Jimmy...Jimmy....Jimmy....
You aren't understanding the rules of the game. One Sky/Brit bashing thread was closed, so another must be opened. Did you not realise this would happen the moment the other thread was locked
Anyway, it is a valid thread topic I think. Wanting to play devil's advocate, I just popped over to the Italian amazon site to try and see if there were books about Astana and Nibali. Not a very fair comparison, because Astana doesn't have the pure association with one nation in terms of team registration and principal riders, in the way that Sky does, but nevertheless there were only two books that I could find about Nibali. This is in stark comparison to Hitch's long list although a couple of his entries are pushing it a bit.
In a sense Sky is a much more homogenous project than any other team since, maybe Mapei, and therefore the literature will coagulate around the one team. But I agree with Hitch in so far as there are a lot of spin offs from this team. I'm not sure it is fair to tie it into doping, as I think all the GT winners (and maybe other race winners too) are doping. I don't believe there is any non-doping GT winning 'control group' against which Sky can be compared. It is up to the teams to make what they can out of their race wins, but I suppose we shouldn't be surprised if a team that is paid for by a media company subsequently makes the most of the media.
By the way, I think you should add team kits to the list of money making ventures. If I see another flabby middle-aged man panting his way along the road on a Pinarello, and stuffed into black and light-blue lycra I'll probably scream.
Haha yes, one thread get torpedoed and another springs from the ashes.
All cyclists and cycling teams, nay all successful sportsman make money from endorsements and the like, it pays (literally) to have as many sidelines as possible, hence the CVNDSH range, the Wiggo Fred Perry shirts, and of course replica kits and books. It's part and parcel of the industry, just about promoting your brand and lining your pockets while you do. After all you've only got until your mid thirties or so to do it. While I'm sure it it benefits dopers to have friends in high places (look at Jimmy Saville) I firmly believe releasing a book or having a clothing line isn't going to achieve that aim.
Getting a knighthood might though, eh Bradley?
The amount of books Sky has released is just a huge red herrings, but this is the clinic and there's nothing more fun than conjuring conspiracy out of thin air, throw in some mocking memes of the Dawg or Wiggo and bingo, you have the classic clinic thread. Fun for all the family.
Relax Jimmy, its all about literacy rates, that's why LRP hasn't released a book, so few of his countrymen can read
Re: Re:
Maybe we should compare Astana to Sky when the leading rider at Sky buys a major race and then has BC cycling reimburse him for the expenses.
carton said:
Maybe we should compare Astana to Sky when the leading rider at Sky buys a major race and then has BC cycling reimburse him for the expenses.
Jimmy. This thread was set up because Wiggins had just announced a few hours earlier that he was going to release another book. One that covers the 30 months that have passed since the last one, the world tt championship, the hour record and a few month long binges.
It reminded me of a discussion on twitter when Ross Tucker (praise be upon him) retweeted one of Emma's posts and one of the SKy drones rolled in with the familiar - you are just trying to sell your book.
Tucker comically asked if instead of Emma's book we should all go out to buy wiggos upcoming 5th book or Froomes upcoming 2nd.
So i thought it really funny when I read yesterday, just 2 months after Ross made his tweet, that wiggins will indeed be releasing another book.
And in those short 2 months (since July 14th) Brailsford, thomas and Millar have all also announced new books.
So with 4 new books announced in just 2 months, I thought it was definately worth starting a thread about it.
And its been worth it. With the exception of your posts weve had some good productive discussions.
And for the record, I haven't started a Sky one in a long time.
It reminded me of a discussion on twitter when Ross Tucker (praise be upon him) retweeted one of Emma's posts and one of the SKy drones rolled in with the familiar - you are just trying to sell your book.
Tucker comically asked if instead of Emma's book we should all go out to buy wiggos upcoming 5th book or Froomes upcoming 2nd.
So i thought it really funny when I read yesterday, just 2 months after Ross made his tweet, that wiggins will indeed be releasing another book.
And in those short 2 months (since July 14th) Brailsford, thomas and Millar have all also announced new books.
So with 4 new books announced in just 2 months, I thought it was definately worth starting a thread about it.
And its been worth it. With the exception of your posts weve had some good productive discussions.
And for the record, I haven't started a Sky one in a long time.
Re: Re:
I dont think Sky are releasing books to hide doping per se. But getting all the 'top' cycling hacks onside helps them very much. When did any of the writers(apart from Walsh) go after Armstrong? None. They are all dyed in the wool omerta writers.......
That is a form of protectionism in my book!
gooner said:
I dont think Sky are releasing books to hide doping per se. But getting all the 'top' cycling hacks onside helps them very much. When did any of the writers(apart from Walsh) go after Armstrong? None. They are all dyed in the wool omerta writers.......
That is a form of protectionism in my book!
Re: Re:
And yes I agree, Astana is every bit as bad
Is it that different that it was the GM that bought the 2012 Tour de France and not the lead rider?roundabout said:
And yes I agree, Astana is every bit as bad
Re: Re:
No.
Come on man, you've been part of every sky conversation. The image of Sky is what starts these fires. It is the hypocrisy that lights up the clinic:
The Sky thread is thousands of pages long. Half of those posts are people saying "why do you only accuse sky", and the replies saying "everyone dopes, but only sky fans try to say they don't". The Contador thread isn't endless because there is no narrative being spun to say he is clean, not to the extent of Sky. The Valverde discussion is the same: there aren't a dozen books about him being the greatest since sliced bread.
So why do people care about Sky's narrative? Because we're tired of being lied to. We're tired of being treated like children. We're tired of the arrogance carried by riders and teams as they lead fans by their whimsy into believing a fiction.
That is what this thread is about. It is about a team, who just like any other, is up to no good. But unlike any other, is working so hard, and so successfully, at shoving mistruths, myths and propaganda down our throats. It does so at an oppressive scale
No other team has this kind of propaganda machine, and that machine is worth talking about.
JimmyFingers said:
No.
Come on man, you've been part of every sky conversation. The image of Sky is what starts these fires. It is the hypocrisy that lights up the clinic:
The Sky thread is thousands of pages long. Half of those posts are people saying "why do you only accuse sky", and the replies saying "everyone dopes, but only sky fans try to say they don't". The Contador thread isn't endless because there is no narrative being spun to say he is clean, not to the extent of Sky. The Valverde discussion is the same: there aren't a dozen books about him being the greatest since sliced bread.
So why do people care about Sky's narrative? Because we're tired of being lied to. We're tired of being treated like children. We're tired of the arrogance carried by riders and teams as they lead fans by their whimsy into believing a fiction.
That is what this thread is about. It is about a team, who just like any other, is up to no good. But unlike any other, is working so hard, and so successfully, at shoving mistruths, myths and propaganda down our throats. It does so at an oppressive scale
No other team has this kind of propaganda machine, and that machine is worth talking about.
http://stevetilford.com/2015/04/03/astana-is-a-symbol-of-clean-and-honest-sport-vincenzo-nibali/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/16937377
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-says-he-believes-contador-is-clean/
....because the other main GT riders never pretend to be clean
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/16937377
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-says-he-believes-contador-is-clean/
....because the other main GT riders never pretend to be clean
Re: Re:
Someone should write a book called "the perfect sponsor".
Now -we needn't imagine what one such can do.
We've seen it with our own eyes.
More Strides than Rides said:
Someone should write a book called "the perfect sponsor".
Now -we needn't imagine what one such can do.
We've seen it with our own eyes.
Re:
yeps.
I was looking for the bank transfer about Brailsford "buying" the 2012 Tour from Aso. did not find them.
yes, DB just bought some special fuel, did not buy the race.
if some Sky rider was proved to have bought a race we would be talking about that until 2022 (just like Froome hanging on tha motorbike 5 years ago)
wendybnt said:http://stevetilford.com/2015/04/03/astana-is-a-symbol-of-clean-and-honest-sport-vincenzo-nibali/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/16937377
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riis-says-he-believes-contador-is-clean/
....because the other main GT riders never pretend to be clean
yeps.
I was looking for the bank transfer about Brailsford "buying" the 2012 Tour from Aso. did not find them.
yes, DB just bought some special fuel, did not buy the race.
if some Sky rider was proved to have bought a race we would be talking about that until 2022 (just like Froome hanging on tha motorbike 5 years ago)
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