Team Sky and BC Books.

[More Strides than Rides]

For anyone who has read this ground breaking work
and is interested in learning more about Dr. Peters very
successful theories, methods and protocols for people
to get the best out of themselves and coaches to get the
very best out of their athletes, British Cycling is presenting
a series of workshops in Manchester, Newport, Glasgow, Derby
and London. These workshops are open to the public and discounts
are available for British Cycling members and qualified coaches.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/c...this-winter-with-Chimp-Management-workshops-0 Hurry, places are very limited!

"Ground-breaking'? Are you being sarcastic or haven't you read it? I have never read a book which made me as angry as this did.

Another lot of snake oil from the grandmeisters of the control-control-control-uber-alles ethos.

I just read what was available on books.google. My opinion could be clouded by some bias against Dr. Peters, but definitely is clouded by my bias against "mind hacks", "follow my step-by-step process"-isms and, "look how easy it is, if you just do this". Self-help exists, but not as an external intervention, which is the only form self-help books take (And I wouldn't put what I read into the category of self-help per say; it's less about solving a specific problem. But it still has that attitude). I will say it didn't take on any Guru-ism (I'm the one to listen too, not everyone else) which is one of my biggest pet peeves.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

He went from roaring success on the track to dismal sackable failure in soccer.

 

[Electress]

For me, this stuff is just another loathsome aspect of what is known as the 'professional' approach of Sky. Is it so dissimilar from other more mainstream sports? No. But then, I don't find the fact Wayne Rooney or whomsoever has managed to string - or get someone else to string - enough sentences together to bind a book in big type very edifying either, so I welcome no one capitalising on this merchandising avenue much.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I tend to believe the the value of such books lies not in the blow-by-blow account of what happened or 'how it felt' sentimentality - but on whether there is some analysis, some overview, some insight into a wider picture. The sort of picture one might get when viewing a whole career with a little bit of distance; with a bit of objectivity either gleaned from looking back on what happened with some insight into oneself, or having someone else write who is both intelligent enough and objective enough to exercise their critical faculties and address some of the thornier aspects of the sport without the rose-tinted glasses / fawning bias of a fan-with-a-typewriter.

The issue I have with most of the books on Hitch's list - like a lot of other zeleb. autobiographies in whatever aspect of life - is that they are crap. Some are anecdotal, maybe mildly amusing, essentially descriptive, bland and inoffensive. Some are fawning propaganda. Some are badly structured, poorly written, shallow-as-pond skim. And for me, that tells something about the character of those involved. The fact that a team or rider (and indeed, writer) is willing to put their name to / endorse book after rushed out book, with little additional content and very poor quality to 'cash in ' on winning the Tour or doing the Hour record or whatever, speaks volumes about their ethos. For me, it is the literary equivalent of selling me a bit of kit which falls apart after a couple of washes. It is not about the quality, it is about making money. It equates, at best, to produce minimum quality to serve the market and at worst, to a willingness to rip-off the fans to get the most out of 'your time in the sun'.

And this is where I think is the most doping relevance for me…because it is telling about people's motivations, and their integrity, whatever the talk about standards and values - this is how they act. And it becomes a lot easier to believe that a man willing to put their name on any old crap written by a ghost writer in time for Christmas will be wiling to take other short cuts. And that the man willing to write that won't necessarily question too carefully what he is being told to write.

Because whether or not those ghost writers / journos / fans with typewriters actually know anything about the doping, they are certainly in 'the club' and want to stay there…so at best, that means staying on side / being neutral; and at worst, behaving like Sky's propaganda arm. With so little money to be made from cycling (versus other sports) and a short time to make it, they will be extremely disinclined to bite the hand that feeds them whilst the narrative people want to read and riders and teams want to push is 'national heroes'. No one at the minute wants to hear or write the 'doping' story…this is part of the Olympic 2012 legacy - 'people' want to believe.

I have heard - I don't know whether it is true - that Contador is writing his autobiography. I have no idea whether it'll be any good, or self-serving, badly written shite as well. But I will say this - at least he has waited until his career is nearly / is over and will have the insight that brings. Here's hoping he (or his ghost writer or both) can also string a non-cliche'd sentence together, can manage to write without an insufferably smug or conceited tone and has something to say about his career in the wide sweep of the sport. It's too much to hope that we'll learn anything objective about the doping stuff, but I for one am at least interested to see whether he has some interesting opinions / views on the sport as a whole and how it's changed over the years he's been active.

 

[Electress]

For anyone who has read this ground breaking work
and is interested in learning more about Dr. Peters very
successful theories, methods and protocols for people
to get the best out of themselves and coaches to get the
very best out of their athletes, British Cycling is presenting
a series of workshops in Manchester, Newport, Glasgow, Derby
and London. These workshops are open to the public and discounts
are available for British Cycling members and qualified coaches.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/c...this-winter-with-Chimp-Management-workshops-0 Hurry, places are very limited!

"Ground-breaking'? Are you being sarcastic or haven't you read it? I have never read a book which made me as angry as this did.

Another lot of snake oil from the grandmeisters of the control-control-control-uber-alles ethos.

I just read what was available on books.google. My opinion could be clouded by some bias against Dr. Peters, but definitely is clouded by my bias against "mind hacks", "follow my step-by-step process"-isms and, "look how easy it is, if you just do this". Self-help exists, but not as an external intervention, which is the only form self-help books take (And I wouldn't put what I read into the category of self-help per say; it's less about solving a specific problem. But it still has that attitude). I will say it didn't take on any Guru-ism (I'm the one to listen too, not everyone else) which is one of my biggest pet peeves.

Well, if your metaphorical approach to the brain involves chimps, computers, humans; moons, stones of something or other I forget or have deliberately excised from my memory, and you go for constant repetition, summary and cartoons to illustrate what you've just read, maybe it might work for you. I hated it. The whole thing was stretched out to a ludicrous extent and the 'model' was incoherent twaddle…moons, stones... naming my inner chimps… ffs, I'm not 5.

The whole approach was actually quite frightening to me. The underlying ethos based on filtering (at best) and repression (at worst) of any and all non-cerebral impulses to such an extent I wonder if anyone using it really knows who the hell they really are and what they really feel about anything. No wonder Sky are all frigging robots if they follow that. And I'm a scientist, so not an exactly anti intellectual fly by the seat of my pants operatic - creative type either.

IMO, I have read many better and many better written (and infinitely more clear and coherent) 'self-help' (or at least management philosophy) type of books - what irks me particularly about this one is the 'trust me I'm a Doctor' 'scientifically based' ' psychologist veneer to give it credibility and 'originality' which it is has no right to claim.

 

[thehog]

Sir Bradley Wiggins‘s new book – My Hour – charts the lead-up and experience of his successful attempt earlier this year to set a new UCI Hour Record.

Having already written his name into the cycling history books on numerous occasions, notably becoming the first British rider to win the Tour de France in 2012 and establish himself as one of Britain’s most decorated Olympians, Wiggins turned his attention to the iconic Hour record in 2015.

According to publisher Yellow Jersey Press, Wiggins’s latest tome “takes you behind the scenes of his record attempt. From planning to preparation, to training to execution, Bradley shares his thoughts on his sacrifices, his heroes, and the people who have supported him along the way as well as what’s to come as he heads towards the twilight of his stellar career”.

The book includes exclusive photography of Wiggins as he trains and attempts the gruelling feat. It’s a follow-up to Wiggins’ successful My Time book, which was published after his Tour/Olympic time trial double in 2012 and has reportedly sold in excess of 300,000 copies.

My Hour goes on sale from November 19 and will be available as a hardback for £20.

300,000 x £20 = £6,000,000 !!

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Well, if your metaphorical approach to the brain involves chimps, computers, humans; moons, stones of something or other I forget or have deliberately excised from my memory, and you go for constant repetition, summary and cartoons to illustrate what you've just read, maybe it might work for you. I hated it. The whole thing was stretched out to a ludicrous extent and the 'model' was incoherent twaddle…moons, stones... naming my inner chimps… ffs, I'm not 5.

The whole approach was actually quite frightening to me. The underlying ethos based on filtering (at best) and repression (at worst) of any and all non-cerebral impulses to such an extent I wonder if anyone using it really knows who the hell they really are and what they really feel about anything. No wonder Sky are all frigging robots if they follow that. And I'm a scientist, so not an exactly anti intellectual fly by the seat of my pants operatic - creative type either.

IMO, I have read many better and many better written (and infinitely more clear and coherent) 'self-help' (or at least management philosophy) type of books - what irks me particularly about this one is the 'trust me I'm a Doctor' 'scientifically based' ' psychologist veneer to give it credibility and 'originality' which it is has no right to claim.

Agreed. My problem (one of...) with Marginal Gains as a brand is the weird combination of oversimplifying complexity and overhyping irrelevance, just like you point out is evident in the book. And you bring up a good point in your other post about the style of writing and it's reflection on the author. That Peters was more interested in a "follow my program" kind of book, instead of a "here's some information and its real-world implications" (I'm thinking of Brain Training for Runners as a fitness example of what Peters could have done, or Thinking Fast and Slow for something more general) is telling about his character: more interested in self-promotion than contribution.

I have mixed feelings about the quality assurance an athlete gives to the use of their image. For some, it is all they got, and endorsing some crappy product pays the bills. But these books are sold as something more profound, and there's something off-putting about selling a distilled or half-heated wisdom: there's more trust involved when consuming a message than consuming stuff, and anything less than a real attempt is dishonesty. That Wiggans has packaged his story into three different packages means that none of the real thing. Same goes for every iteration of the Sky story.

 

[Benotti69]

Sir Bradley Wiggins‘s new book – My Hour – charts the lead-up and experience of his successful attempt earlier this year to set a new UCI Hour Record.

Having already written his name into the cycling history books on numerous occasions, notably becoming the first British rider to win the Tour de France in 2012 and establish himself as one of Britain’s most decorated Olympians, Wiggins turned his attention to the iconic Hour record in 2015.

According to publisher Yellow Jersey Press, Wiggins’s latest tome “takes you behind the scenes of his record attempt. From planning to preparation, to training to execution, Bradley shares his thoughts on his sacrifices, his heroes, and the people who have supported him along the way as well as what’s to come as he heads towards the twilight of his stellar career”.

The book includes exclusive photography of Wiggins as he trains and attempts the gruelling feat. It’s a follow-up to Wiggins’ successful My Time book, which was published after his Tour/Olympic time trial double in 2012 and has reportedly sold in excess of 300,000 copies.

My Hour goes on sale from November 19 and will be available as a hardback for £20.

300,000 x £20 = £6,000,000 !!

Author gets roughly £1.00 per copy.

 

[Irondan]

Sir Bradley Wiggins‘s new book – My Hour – charts the lead-up and experience of his successful attempt earlier this year to set a new UCI Hour Record.

Having already written his name into the cycling history books on numerous occasions, notably becoming the first British rider to win the Tour de France in 2012 and establish himself as one of Britain’s most decorated Olympians, Wiggins turned his attention to the iconic Hour record in 2015.

According to publisher Yellow Jersey Press, Wiggins’s latest tome “takes you behind the scenes of his record attempt. From planning to preparation, to training to execution, Bradley shares his thoughts on his sacrifices, his heroes, and the people who have supported him along the way as well as what’s to come as he heads towards the twilight of his stellar career”.

The book includes exclusive photography of Wiggins as he trains and attempts the gruelling feat. It’s a follow-up to Wiggins’ successful My Time book, which was published after his Tour/Olympic time trial double in 2012 and has reportedly sold in excess of 300,000 copies.

My Hour goes on sale from November 19 and will be available as a hardback for £20.

300,000 x £20 = £6,000,000 !!

Author gets roughly £1.00 per copy.

I think we all know that Wiggo's not the author of this or any book.

For the ghost writer I would think that writing some easy reading rag for 300,000 pounds is good money.

 

[doolols]

Author gets roughly £1.00 per copy.

I think we all know that Wiggo's not the author of this or any book.

For the ghost writer I would think that writing some easy reading rag for 300,000 pounds is good money.

Ghosts generally work on a fixed price contract per book - something in the region of £5,000 - £10,000, depending on who it is and how much work they have to put into it.

I can assure you the only people getting rich on this are the publishers and bookshops able to sell at full RRP. Once it gets discounted, the authors / subjects get a percentage of the discounted price. Sp I'm guessing Wiggins will be able to afford a new conservatory on the back of his house.

Mind you, this all raises the profile of the sports person, so they can really rake in the money for personal appearances and after-dinner speaking engagements.

 

[thehog]

Sir Bradley Wiggins‘s new book – My Hour – charts the lead-up and experience of his successful attempt earlier this year to set a new UCI Hour Record.

Having already written his name into the cycling history books on numerous occasions, notably becoming the first British rider to win the Tour de France in 2012 and establish himself as one of Britain’s most decorated Olympians, Wiggins turned his attention to the iconic Hour record in 2015.

According to publisher Yellow Jersey Press, Wiggins’s latest tome “takes you behind the scenes of his record attempt. From planning to preparation, to training to execution, Bradley shares his thoughts on his sacrifices, his heroes, and the people who have supported him along the way as well as what’s to come as he heads towards the twilight of his stellar career”.

The book includes exclusive photography of Wiggins as he trains and attempts the gruelling feat. It’s a follow-up to Wiggins’ successful My Time book, which was published after his Tour/Olympic time trial double in 2012 and has reportedly sold in excess of 300,000 copies.

My Hour goes on sale from November 19 and will be available as a hardback for £20.

300,000 x £20 = £6,000,000 !!

Author gets roughly £1.00 per copy.

I think we all know that Wiggo's not the author of this or any book.

For the ghost writer I would think that writing some easy reading rag for 300,000 pounds is good money.

That amount would pay for a top tier drug program with a Doctor of choice

 

[Benotti69]

Author gets roughly £1.00 per copy.

I think we all know that Wiggo's not the author of this or any book.

For the ghost writer I would think that writing some easy reading rag for 300,000 pounds is good money.

Ghosts generally work on a fixed price contract per book - something in the region of £5,000 - £10,000, depending on who it is and how much work they have to put into it.

I can assure you the only people getting rich on this are the publishers and bookshops able to sell at full RRP. Once it gets discounted, the authors / subjects get a percentage of the discounted price. Sp I'm guessing Wiggins will be able to afford a new conservatory on the back of his house.

Mind you, this all raises the profile of the sports person, so they can really rake in the money for personal appearances and after-dinner speaking engagements.

this^^^. Wiggo's agent might have negotiated a flat fee for say 100,000 books and then per book sale after.......But publishers, distributors and shops get most of the money.

Wiggo will be cashing in on after dinner talks for a few years if he listens to good advice.

 

[doolols]

Wiggo will be cashing in on after dinner talks for a few years if he listens to good advice.

I would imagine £10k - £20k per evening would be around the mark. Maybe more, since he's a "sir".

 

[doolols]

Eek! I was wrong. £50k for Sir Brad.

http://www.nmplive.co.uk/sir-bradley-wiggins-cbe

 

[etphonehome]

Author gets roughly £1.00 per copy.

I think we all know that Wiggo's not the author of this or any book.

For the ghost writer I would think that writing some easy reading rag for 300,000 pounds is good money.

Ghosts generally work on a fixed price contract per book - something in the region of £5,000 - £10,000, depending on who it is and how much work they have to put into it.

I can assure you the only people getting rich on this are the publishers and bookshops able to sell at full RRP. Once it gets discounted, the authors / subjects get a percentage of the discounted price. Sp I'm guessing Wiggins will be able to afford a new conservatory on the back of his house.

Mind you, this all raises the profile of the sports person, so they can really rake in the money for personal appearances and after-dinner speaking engagements.

(Bolded by me.) Not necessarily. I get a standard percentage of the RRP of my books, discounted or not, and I'm not a celebrity. It really depends on his contract. I agree with you that he's unlikely to be getting rich off the books, and also that even so, he's getting richer than his ghost. Ghostwriting is only really lucrative by volume, though sometimes there are bonuses if the book does really well.

 

[thehog]

Author gets roughly £1.00 per copy.

I think we all know that Wiggo's not the author of this or any book.

For the ghost writer I would think that writing some easy reading rag for 300,000 pounds is good money.

Ghosts generally work on a fixed price contract per book - something in the region of £5,000 - £10,000, depending on who it is and how much work they have to put into it.

I can assure you the only people getting rich on this are the publishers and bookshops able to sell at full RRP. Once it gets discounted, the authors / subjects get a percentage of the discounted price. Sp I'm guessing Wiggins will be able to afford a new conservatory on the back of his house.

Mind you, this all raises the profile of the sports person, so they can really rake in the money for personal appearances and after-dinner speaking engagements.

(Bolded by me.) Not necessarily. I get a standard percentage of the RRP of my books, discounted or not, and I'm not a celebrity. It really depends on his contract. I agree with you that he's unlikely to be getting rich off the books, and also that even so, he's getting richer than his ghost. Ghostwriting is only really lucrative by volume, though sometimes there are bonuses if the book does really well.

Reminds me of the story of Sir Alec Guinness who played Obi-Wan Kenobi. He was the only actor in the original 1977 Star Wars movie to take a reduced salary but negotiated an additional 2% from the film’s profit. The movie wasn’t expected to do well.

It has netted him £57m whilst Luke Skywalker, Mark Hamill earned 200k per movie.

 

[The Hitch]

What does - they aren't "getting rich", mean?

They are getting paid for it which is what matters. They don't do it out of charity.

It is income for them.

Getting paid >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not getting paid.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Eek! I was wrong. £50k for Sir Brad.

http://www.nmplive.co.uk/sir-bradley-wiggins-cbe

Dave Brailsford is also fetching 50K, but poor old Chris Boardman (seems like he would be a lot more interesting than the others) is only commanding 6-10k? What a travesty!

 

[thehog]

Re:

What does - they aren't "getting rich", mean?

They are getting paid for it which is what matters. They don't do it out of charity.

It is income for them.

Getting paid >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not getting paid.

And to the point of the thread; Wiggins getting on a serious program from 2009 to 2012 has netted him very well. There is plenty of upside to doping, not a lot of downside

 

[wendybnt]

...until you get caught.

(like most Tour winners in recent decades)

 

[the delgados]

Won't cost him anything. Wiggins managed to stay clear of any controversy, lawsuits, etc.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

...until you get caught.

(like most Tour winners in recent decades)

Is getting caught a downside? As in, a negative?

Or is it just the end of the upside?

Landis and Lance are examples of downsides, loosing their gains in their fights. But Menchov? Probably didn't pay back his prize/sponsorship/team bonus money. Every US Postal 6-month ban kept the money made from their past. Riis didn't have a downside, he got to keep the image as a cycling genius, and kept that going for its upside.

(And I rmemeber now that Menchov got to keep his TdF results, for some reason...)

 

[wendybnt]

I suppose it depends on how much your value your reputation.

It killed Pantani. Ullrich disappeared. But people like Contador have just ridden out it, still bleating their innocence.

 

[mrhender]

Re: Re:

Is getting caught a downside? As in, a negative?

Or is it just the end of the upside?

Landis and Lance are examples of downsides, loosing their gains in their fights. But Menchov? Probably didn't pay back his prize/sponsorship/team bonus money. Every US Postal 6-month ban kept the money made from their past. Riis didn't have a downside, he got to keep the image as a cycling genius, and kept that going for its upside.

(And I rmemeber now that Menchov got to keep his TdF results, for some reason...)

'

I think from a materialistic point of view the bolded is very well said.

What we may not know is the broader long term effect of this for a generation of dopers in terms of psychological influence, and all things combined the multifaceted life "quality (caught and not-caught).

Some of these "ill-gotten" gains may due to the general level of doping not be percieved as such but who knows what happens long term in a wider scale.


In any case that's probably a whole other discussion.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

What does - they aren't "getting rich", mean?

They are getting paid for it which is what matters. They don't do it out of charity.

It is income for them.

Getting paid >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not getting paid.

And to the point of the thread; Wiggins getting on a serious program from 2009 to 2012 has netted him very well. There is plenty of upside to doping, not a lot of downside

He would rather stack shelves in tesco though.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

...until you get caught.

Ask David Millar what the downside is there. Or Virenque. Or Riis. Or Jonathan Vaughters. Or Contador. Or Valverde. Should I go on?