Team Sky...holy crap!!

[yakko!]

That's really all I could say about this interview:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article6922458.ece

I'm really interested if anyone else is left somewhat speechless about it...

 

[Sneekes]

That's really all I could say about this interview:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article6922458.ece

I'm really interested if anyone else is left somewhat speechless about it...

I don't really understand your consternation. It's a fairly innovative approach - but it's not at all surprising that Brailsford chooses to try to replicate the process that brought him so much success on the track.
If he gets the right people in then it should work, the down-side is that by adopting an organisational philosophy that some people will not be able to work under - you are thereby restricting the available talent-pool.
You're pretty much prohibitting the recruitment of an established star or ego - which is probably why the initial chats with Contador did not go well.

 

[Publicus]

That's really all I could say about this interview:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article6922458.ece

I'm really interested if anyone else is left somewhat speechless about it...

I'm not. It's actually a rather smart approach. The weaknesses these folks will have is not in the basics (riding a bike, training, fixing bikes, driving busses). It will be psychological and interpersonal issues that will adversely affect their abilities to perform their given tasks.

 

[Cartesian Centaur]

I'm not impressed with his assessment of chimps, but it seems like a fairly standard Brailsford sort of approach.

 

[iainf72]

A bit of Kimmage anyone?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article6926944.ece

 

[pedaling squares]

Well it's certainly a smart business practice to select the team and their support personnel based upon their ability to get along and work under pressure. I got the impression from the article that Brailsford likes to be involved in the details. This could be positive, or it could lead to strife if everyone is not free to do his job. From the outside it looks like a healthy way to plan a team.

 

[Bala Verde]

But it went farther than that. “I think Scandinavians in the main are good communicators,” Brailsford said. “We can sit down and have a conversation and you are pretty close to being on the same page; that may not be the case with someone from Portugal, southern Spain and southern Italy.

“There are cultural traits of Scandinavians that lend themselves to the idea of nurturing and mentoring as against dictating and controlling. Their societies are democratic, caring, and I think that is reflected in their bike riders.” In other words, they will understand their chimps and want to be ants.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think he is trying to bring the team together so the riders will bury themselves for a leader to win. I think he wants the perfect setup, so he wants the riders to be looked after by the mechanics, soigneurs, etc.

 

[Anonymous]

good on him, i say!

good to hear someone tell the good old fashioned honest truth

i see no reason why he should not point out that the attitudes of some nationalities are very different to that of others. people may think that comment is a bit much, but tought t!tties, he's right!

i like to see someone challenge the status quo, all the best to Sky!

 

[HL2037]

good on him, i say!

good to hear someone tell the good old fashioned honest truth

i see no reason why he should not point out that the attitudes of some nationalities are very different to that of others. people may think that comment is a bit much, but tought t!tties, he's right!

i like to see someone challenge the status quo, all the best to Sky!

I thought they had signed both a spaniard and an italian.

As for scandinavians wanting to be ants - it's not entirely true...

 

[Anonymous]

I don't really understand your consternation. It's a fairly innovative approach - but it's not at all surprising that Brailsford chooses to try to replicate the process that brought him so much success on the track.
If he gets the right people in then it should work, the down-side is that by adopting an organisational philosophy that some people will not be able to work under - you are thereby restricting the available talent-pool.
You're pretty much prohibitting the recruitment of an established star or ego - which is probably why the initial chats with Contador did not go well.

fortunately a fair few of the riders have worked under him before and know just what to expect.. they can tell the others..

DB is the messiah..

its a shame that in five years time you are all going to be moaning about the domination of sky, and calling dave brailsford the devil..

 

[bobbins]

Looks like a load of pseudo-scientific management bull**** to me.

The team is turning into Scott Sunderland and his old mates, a core of young brits and whoever else they could get with no doping links and free contracts. I hope it succeeds but reading articles like this just makes me think of all the courses that blue chip companies sent their staff on rather than worrying about them doing their jobs properly.

The line about fitting in or leaving is pretty indicative to the sort of dictatorship that this type of environment can foster.

 

[python]

Looks like a load of pseudo-scientific management bull**** to me.

The team is turning into Scott Sunderland and his old mates, a core of young brits and whoever else they could get with no doping links and free contracts. I hope it succeeds but reading articles like this just makes me think of all the courses that blue chip companies sent their staff on rather than worrying about them doing their jobs properly.

The line about fitting in or leaving is pretty indicative to the sort of dictatorship that this type of environment can foster.

i don't think his approach is bs as you put it. many things he said make perfect sense. i just wish he realizes that focusing on homogeneous, coherent group of riders is a different challenge in professional rr compared to any national team dynamics. the riders live all over europe, train separately and get together only during early pre-season or before 2-3 major races. team spirit is a very relative term though i can't deny its importance. i also wish he stop talking about cultural ethnic stuff. today's europe is nothing like that and only some island people think in those terms.

 

[Sneekes]

...I hope it succeeds but reading articles like this just makes me think of all the courses that blue chip companies sent their staff on rather than worrying about them doing their jobs properly...

I think Team Sky have a greater chance of making this work than a bluechip company. Bluechips companies are generally too big for a sigle organisational philiosophy to permeate all levels - team Sky will be small enough to control in that manner.

...i also wish he stop talking about cultural ethnic stuff. today's europe is nothing like that and only some island people think in those terms.

I didn't really like the ethnic generalisations either - but am encouraged that despite these stereotypes DB does still seem to be judging individuals on their merits (ie: Cioni, Vigano, Flecha). I'm hoping his statement is more an explanation about how he has ended up with more Scandinavians, and less about selecting simply by nationalist/race

 

[blackcat]

Cioni has a British mother, and may have lived there after his adolescence for a year. Flecha is Argentinean, so we really got two polyglots who already cross cultural boundaries before they stepped foot in the peloton, then rode on teams from different nationalities.

 

[Mickey75]

From this article I am thinking that Brailsford can't count.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-reveals-recruiting-management-methods

"He refused to hire more than four riders or staff from any one team to avoid having cliques among the team."

From Team Columbia - HTC came Edvald Boasson Hagen, Michael Barry, Thomas Lovkvist, Morris Possoni and Greg Henderson.

Isn't that Five riders.

 

[Andy99]

Looks like a load of pseudo-scientific management bull**** to me.

The team is turning into Scott Sunderland and his old mates, a core of young brits and whoever else they could get with no doping links and free contracts. I hope it succeeds but reading articles like this just makes me think of all the courses that blue chip companies sent their staff on rather than worrying about them doing their jobs properly.

The line about fitting in or leaving is pretty indicative to the sort of dictatorship that this type of environment can foster.

Seemed to work quite well for the Great Britain Track team.

 

[sida-mot]

Looks like a load of pseudo-scientific management bull**** to me.

The team is turning into Scott Sunderland and his old mates, a core of young brits and whoever else they could get with no doping links and free contracts. I hope it succeeds but reading articles like this just makes me think of all the courses that blue chip companies sent their staff on rather than worrying about them doing their jobs properly.

The line about fitting in or leaving is pretty indicative to the sort of dictatorship that this type of environment can foster.

hmm.. Yes and no to this for me actually.

I hate to add fuel on the fire about this ethnic-cultural bull crap. But in Sweden these type of team building camps are common. They are considered to be an important factor for several teams, especially national teams where you don't spend so much time together.

They are used both for team sports and individual sports.

Markus Ljungkvist said in an interview that Saxo bank had these types of events as well.

So it is tested and I guess I would consider it a valid management approach. When Sven was coaching the UK football team I remember reading this article about the Scandinavian managment model and how it could me adapted to corporations.

---
The "fitting or leaving" comes out of the same philosophy. And yes now it is getting a bit "pseudo-scientific management bull****" . The general idea is that "the whole should be greater than the sum of the parts". So it is basically not about my way or the high way, it is more about putting the team above yourself.

---
So from my point of view his take on building a team is not that new thinking. I consider it an existing model. BUT the importance of this thinking can be debated though.

In the end it still comes down to who has the legs that race. I would argue that the situation in Astana this years TdF proved that legs and lungs are more important than team spirit.

 

[lagartija]

hmm.. Yes and no to this for me actually.

I hate to add fuel on the fire about this ethnic-cultural bull crap. But in Sweden these type of team building camps are common. They are considered to be an important factor for several teams, especially national teams where you don't spend so much time together.

They are used both for team sports and individual sports.

Markus Ljungkvist said in an interview that Saxo bank had these types of events as well.

So it is tested and I guess I would consider it a valid management approach. When Sven was coaching the UK football team I remember reading this article about the Scandinavian managment model and how it could me adapted to corporations.

---
The "fitting or leaving" comes out of the same philosophy. And yes now it is getting a bit "pseudo-scientific management bull****" . The general idea is that "the whole should be greater than the sum of the parts". So it is basically not about my way or the high way, it is more about putting the team above yourself.

---
So from my point of view his take on building a team is not that new thinking. I consider it an existing model. BUT the importance of this thinking can be debated though.

In the end it still comes down to who has the legs that race. I would argue that the situation in Astana this years TdF proved that legs and lungs are more important than team spirit.

well said........i was thinking right along those lines.......

 

[ingsve]

...

Great username...

 

[blackcat]

From this article I am thinking that Brailsford can't count.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-reveals-recruiting-management-methods

"He refused to hire more than four riders or staff from any one team to avoid having cliques among the team."

From Team Columbia - HTC came Edvald Boasson Hagen, Michael Barry, Thomas Lovkvist, Morris Possoni and Greg Henderson.

Isn't that Five riders.

veritable polyglot load that. None from one country, and two native English speakers, dare say they won't dictate the core ethic of the team. Only Lovkvist and Boasson on their A team.

 

[uphillstruggle]

I think team sky will get some decent results and I have faith in Brailsford's ability as a manager. However, I do kind of get the impression he may be shooting himself in the foot with the ethnic stereotyping comments - I mean, as far as the talent pool goes the southern Europeans have the edge over any other geographical/social group. Not taking someone on board because they do not speak English is stupid, communication is a lot easier to develop than talent.

I think CSC in the 08 tour are a good example of what Brailsford is aiming for: F Schleck sacrificed his only chance of winning the tour for a team mate to take the win.

 

[yakko!]

Seemed to work quite well for the Great Britain Track team.

I think it's safe to say the in track you're much more limited to where you can go, so keeping the *talented* guys hostage would be a bit more difficult.

 

[HL2037]

I think team CSC was one of the first teams to use teambuilding survival camps and value based management. Brian Nygaard has stated that the reason Michael Rasmussen left the team for Rabobank was MR beeing too individualistic.

 

[graviT]

Not taking someone on board because they do not speak English is stupid, communication is a lot easier to develop than talent.

The article stated that staff must speak English, not not riders.

"There were other selection credentials. Staff must be open to innovation, and must be able to speak English, or willing to learn. Also, there must be no more than four riders or staff recruited from another single team — in other words, no imported cliques or power bases."