Team Visma LAB

[Rackham]

So have these Jumbo ingrates thanked Brokeback Rogla for his sacrifice yet? He literally got buggered in the TdF so these clowns could ride around in a Netflix show in which they were the stars of a scripted cycling 'miracle', i.e. smashing his back, playing the role of bait for Pogacar on stage 11 & then used as a bottle carrier whilst super mutants WvA & Jonas V acted the role of masters of the TdF.

Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550900349841580033

It's okay Wout, you don't need to 'get it', i.e. most of us with our eyes wide open already know.

 

[Rackham]

That's Dan trying to be funny, I am afraid

It was an okay joke. I've seen & heard worse, I've also heard & seen better.

For example I thought it was really funny when Bradley Wiggins compared Wout van Aert's ITT riding style to Lance Armstrong on Eurosport today. I mean as he's forced to sit on a motorbike & watch a human motorbike for 48 minutes over 40km, why not go full-in & admit this is all just entertainment & Lance=Wout whilst Wout=Lance?

There's really no difference if the underlying concept of performance assistance is the same in both eras.

 

[fbjim]

Wout isn't Lance, he's clearly Jalabert.

 

[roundabout]

It was an okay joke. I've seen & heard worse, I've also heard & seen better.

For example I thought it was really funny when Bradley Wiggins compared Wout van Aert's ITT riding style to Lance Armstrong on Eurosport today. I mean as he's forced to sit on a motorbike & watch a human motorbike for 48 minutes over 40km, why not go full-in & admit this is all just entertainment & Lance=Wout whilst Wout=Lance?

There's really no difference if the underlying concept of performance assistance is the same in both eras.

Sorry, I see it as a cheap shot at a team who can't think of the galaxy brain strategy of riding into the sunset on a 1km 6% climb.

And more of the same *** that he peddled previously how it is performance and nutrition that accounts for a double digit percent difference in rider performance.

 

[therealthing]

So have these Jumbo ingrates thanked Brokeback Rogla for his sacrifice yet? He literally got buggered in the TdF so these clowns could ride around in a Netflix show in which they were the stars of a scripted cycling 'miracle', i.e. smashing his back, playing the role of bait for Pogacar on stage 11 & then used as a bottle carrier whilst super mutants WvA & Jonas V acted the role of masters of the TdF.

Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550900349841580033

It's okay Wout, you don't need to 'get it', i.e. most of us with our eyes wide open already know.

Yes Wout, you do need to defend yourself.

They should have asked him the last time a classics specialist rode full gas on the attack every stage, winning bunch sprints, time trials, and dropping a 2-time Tour winner on a HC climb.

But hey, he's never tested positive and thus he must be clean.

 

[capuldemetal]

So have these Jumbo ingrates thanked Brokeback Rogla for his sacrifice yet? He literally got buggered in the TdF so these clowns could ride around in a Netflix show in which they were the stars of a scripted cycling 'miracle', i.e. smashing his back, playing the role of bait for Pogacar on stage 11 & then used as a bottle carrier whilst super mutants WvA & Jonas V acted the role of masters of the TdF.

Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550900349841580033

It's okay Wout, you don't need to 'get it', i.e. most of us with our eyes wide open already know.

and he continues:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550903531032530945

View: https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/1550903531032530945


it's so....,armstrong!

 

[Rackham]

Wout isn't Lance, he's clearly Jalabert.

In terms of his credentials as a clean cyclist, he is.

That was my point. People really can't fawn & drool all over Wout van Aert whilst demonizing Lance Armstrong as a cheat. If such people exist they're either complicit in the current scam or completely naïve to the point of being tragically child-like in terms of gullibility.

You just can't go from full doped peloton 17 years ago to the same performances now & expect people to swallow a rosy story about clean riders. Especially considering the craziness of the performances in question.

Sorry, I see it as a cheap shot at a team who can't think of the galaxy brain strategy of riding into the sunset on a 1km 6% climb.

And more of the same *** that he peddled previously how it is performance and nutrition that accounts for a double digit percent difference in rider performance.

I don't have much sympathy for B&B Hotels tbh. It's not their riders, it's their team manager Jérôme Pineau, i.e. he has a habit of treating his riders like garbage: Cyclisme. Jérôme Pineau très cash : « Certains de mes coureurs m’ont fait honte… » - Cyclisme - Le Télégramme (letelegramme.fr)

"I'm ashamed of some of my riders" etc.

He's a d*ck IMO.

 

[Rackham]

and he continues:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550903531032530945

View: https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/1550903531032530945


it's so....,armstrong!

Yep. Go on the attack & verbally assault the doubters. That's Lance.

 

[ontheroad]

Why does it not surprise me that Van Aert got angry at that question.

Given the chequered history of the sport its a perfectly valid question to ask. The issue is that the cycling media themselves are a massive part of the problem. If he didn’t expect questions around his performances over the last 3 weeks then he either truly has been living in a bubble or he thinks he is untouchable.

 

[hrotha]

Thank you username Jumbo Visma Fan for your thoughts on the absence of pro-Jumbo bias

 

[roundabout]

Jonas Vingegaard on Tour de France dominance: 'We’re totally clean, you have to trust us'

Jumbo-Visma rider answers question in his press conference about why the public should believe in his overall victory.

www.velonews.com

Don't worry everyone, Vingegaard says he's clean so therefore he is.

It's interesting to see the improvement in TT by Vingegaard being noted

Very back of the envelope calculation would suggest that he had to improve his CdA by approximately 15% since 2019 NC (if it was only CdA improvement) or some other combination of better CdA and more power.

 

[Netserk]

It's interesting to see the improvement in TT by Vingegaard being noted

Very back of the envelope calculation would suggest that he had to improve his CdA by approximately 15% since 2019 NC (if it was only CdA improvement) or some other combination of better CdA and more power.

Jonas Vingegaard udgår af Tour of Norway

22-årige Jonas Vingegaard må forlade det norske etapeløb Tour of Norway grundet smerter i albuen efter sit styrt på gårsdagens åbningsetape

www.feltet.dk

Vingegaard på vej tilbage fra skade og ser frem mod DM

Et styrt i Tour of Norway sendte Jonas Vingegaard ud med et brud på albuen. Det danske stortalent på Jumbo-Visma er igen tilbage på cyklen, når han i weekenden er til start ved DM i landevejscykling

www.feltet.dk

So I think his Danmark Rundt ITT is a better example.

 

[BR2]

Yes, I am aware. However, they have not been biased this year. May be unethical, but so is most of the peloton. Most teams probably have one of this job, or starting to implement that. I’m sure they want it hidden as well. I understand people being angry but this is overblown.

Uhm, kind of weird to excuse some very bad behaviour by "ah, I guess others do it, too, and anyway the business is bad, so no big problem". You would have to show that this or comparable things are common practice in cycling. And even then it would be just wrong.

I don't care much about the conflict of interest, since they aren't journalists I would take seriously anyway, like from some investigative newspaper, but you cannot ask riders for private performance data, and that's what weight is for cyclists, pretending to use it for independent analysis and then use it for some other company.
That's almost more like business spionage.

 

[roundabout]

Jonas Vingegaard udgår af Tour of Norway

22-årige Jonas Vingegaard må forlade det norske etapeløb Tour of Norway grundet smerter i albuen efter sit styrt på gårsdagens åbningsetape

www.feltet.dk

Vingegaard på vej tilbage fra skade og ser frem mod DM

Et styrt i Tour of Norway sendte Jonas Vingegaard ud med et brud på albuen. Det danske stortalent på Jumbo-Visma er igen tilbage på cyklen, når han i weekenden er til start ved DM i landevejscykling

www.feltet.dk

It was just a ballpark of the magnitude of improvement needed, and not in any way implied that this was the best that the 2019 Vingegaard could do.

No need to be so defensive.

Edit: here's another interesting result just a week after probably his best U23 stage race

National Championships Denmark MU - ITT 2018 Time Trial results

National Championships Denmark MU - ITT 2018 was won by Mathias Norsgaard before Johan Price-Pejtersen and Andreas Stokbro.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Jonas Vingegaard udgår af Tour of Norway

22-årige Jonas Vingegaard må forlade det norske etapeløb Tour of Norway grundet smerter i albuen efter sit styrt på gårsdagens åbningsetape

www.feltet.dk

Vingegaard på vej tilbage fra skade og ser frem mod DM

Et styrt i Tour of Norway sendte Jonas Vingegaard ud med et brud på albuen. Det danske stortalent på Jumbo-Visma er igen tilbage på cyklen, når han i weekenden er til start ved DM i landevejscykling

www.feltet.dk

So I think his Danmark Rundt ITT is a better example.

What does this mean?

 

[Netserk]

No need to be so defensive.

??

What does this mean?

That he crashed out of the first stage of Tour of Norway with fracture in his elbow. It meant that he had to skip Dauphiné, which was his big target. In the article two days before the NC, he says: ”Det begynder at gå fremad, og jeg kan så småt begynde at træne på vejen igen. Jeg har stadig lidt ondt i armen og albuen, men at jeg snart kan begynde at træne er jo en start,” = I'm improving and I can begin training on the road again. I'm still sore in my arm and elbow, but that I can train again is a start.

 

[roundabout]

??

That you felt the need to mentioned the injury when it was not implied anywhere that this was the best TT possible.

 

[Netserk]

That you felt the need to mentioned the injury when it was not implied anywhere that this was the best TT possible.

I would provide context about recent injury for any rider where it was relevant for a performance used as benchmark. Just the same if I saw someone use Thomas's ITTs in last year's Tour as benchmark for how much he has improved in TTs since then.

 

[ontheroad]

Going from 21st in your own country to smashing up the best specialists in the world in the Tour is dramatic by any standards.

But again I’d go back to basic physiology. How can a slight <60 kg rider generate and maintain more power than heavier specialists. I don’t buy the improvement in his climbing either but it’s more plausible than the TT performances.

As for his explanation regarding nutrition, alltitude training etc etc we’ve heard all that stuff before. The simple question remains, what are Jumbo doing that none of the other pro teams are doing?

 

[noob]

The Benji case is making my head explode. Why did Jumbo hire him? I mean on what merits? And why reveal it now? Why reveal it at all?

 

[noob]

I want an LR thread. In the clinic.

Benji started talking about his stance on doping on twitter this year I believe, and I didn't agree with him at all. He thinks everyone is innocent until proven guilty and if they're guilty it's to mock them.

I think previously Patrick stance was that no one is clean. If I remember correctly it's why I even started listening to his podcast.

Benji has clearly taken a stance against a rider riding ill or injured btw. Re Roglic.

I listen to this podcast almost daily. I am so shocked!

 

[Red Rick]

The Benji case is making my head explode. Why did Jumbo hire him? I mean on what merits? And why reveal it now? Why reveal it at all?

I could understand if it's for marketing. But for strategy it makes no sense to me. In terms of data LR and the others seem somewhat decent, or at least they do the legwork.

 

[Red Rick]

I want an LR thread. In the clinic.

Benji started talking about his stance on doping on twitter this year I believe, and I didn't agree with him at all. He thinks everyone is innocent until proven guilty and if they're guilty it's to mock them.

I think previously Patrick stance was that no one is clean. If I remember correctly it's why I even started listening to his podcast.

Benji has clearly taken a stance against a rider riding ill or injured btw. Re Roglic.

I listen to this podcast almost daily. I am so shocked!

Social media saviness and networking are their main skills, ofcourse when the real $$ comes they'll go full omerta.

 

[noob]

Social media saviness and networking are their main skills, ofcourse when the real $$ comes they'll go full omerta.

What I find so ironic is that the timeline for Benji doping tweets really seem to have coincided with his getting hired by Jumbo. Which in itself is a sign he knows something is going on.

But also the reason Benji could quit his old job and go LR full time must have been because he was hired by Jumbo. Typical influencer trade off.

 

[BR2]

Social media saviness and networking are their main skills, ofcourse when the real $$ comes they'll go full omerta.

Yeah, maybe mostly a move to buy possible influential critics / turn the tide in social media in their favour.