Teams & Riders Team Visma - Lease a Bike

[theyoungest]

I was led to believe by a certain Dutch poster this was behaviour typical of Belgians.

The Dutch thing is opportunism rather than nationalism. That's what a lot of Belgians (and I'm generalizing here) don't seem to understand.

That's not different at all. Today an interview on Wielerflits with Zeeman (who is Dutch to be clear) how he finds it strange how Belgians treat their heroes/stars. Referring to Van Aert gifting GW to Laporte. Maybe you should read how Evenepoel was treated in 2021. So no, Germans, nor Dutch, are special in that regard either. It's not just in sports either. Belgians widely refer to Belgium as "apenland" (in terms of laws and politics).

Zeeman is trying to defend his rider Van Aert to the Belgian press, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's right. Van Aert gets a lot of reverence, in fact if Belgian cycling journos are to be believed he should get free reign in every race he does and if it weren't for him Jumbo would never win anything. Same with Evenepoel, you're not going to argue that he's overly criticized in Belgium because he simply isn't. Of course with all the excessive coverage around cycling there is going to be some stirring up of controversy, newspapers like to do that. But the general tendency is still overwhelmingly supportive.

 

[BR2]

Figure skating lives a shadow existence in the Netherlands though. Or was it a fan favorite in the days of Dianne de Leeuw?

I recently talked to a Durch about it and she actually knew Lindsay van Zundert without being into the sport. I wonder if the average Belgian knows Loena Hendrickx?

 

[staubsauger]

I recently talked to a Durch about it and she actually knew Lindsay van Zundert without being into the sport. I wonder if the average Belgian knows Loena Hendrickx?

Van Zundert was the Dutch color sergeant at the Peking Olympics!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I recently talked to a Durch about it and she actually knew Lindsay van Zundert without being into the sport. I wonder if the average Belgian knows Loena Hendrickx?

Yes, because her achievements make the mainstream news.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The Dutch thing is opportunism rather than nationalism. That's what a lot of Belgians (and I'm generalizing here) don't seem to understand.

Thanks. This actually had me laugh out loud. Could you perhaps explain to me why they, the crazy fans, are looking for Dutch "opportunities" then? My dear friend, it's the exact same thing as elsewhere. The Dutch are not special in this regard, and also not superior. Looking for the moral highground is preposterous. What we have with cycling, you have with football. What we have with cyclocross, you have with skating. What we had with tennis twenty years ago, you now have with F1.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Do the cyclists and the ice skaters of Jumbo Visma train together? Are they cooperating and drawing upon the strength and knowledge of the other disciplines?

 

[RedheadDane]

Do the cyclists and the ice skaters of Jumbo Visma train together? Are they cooperating and drawing upon the strength and knowledge of the other disciplines?

Maybe for the bits that isn't discipline-based; strength training and such. Would look quite silly to have a bunch of cyclists on an icetrack.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Maybe for the bits that isn't discipline-based; strength training and such. Would look quite silly to have a bunch of cyclists on an icetrack.

Many Dutch cyclists have done speedskating in the winter months and the speedskaters are similarly cycling in their off-seasons, which is why you see some of them end up in cycling. I also believe all the JV speedskaters have Cervélo bikes at their disposal, but I don't know often they train with the JV riders.

 

[RedheadDane]

Many Dutch cyclists have done speedskating in the winter months and the speedskaters are similarly cycling in their off-seasons, which is why you see some of them end up in cycling. I also believe all the JV speedskaters have Cervélo bikes at their disposal, but I don't know often they train with the JV riders.

Yes, but they aren't cycling on the icetrack.
Or iceskating out on the roads.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Yes, but they aren't cycling on the icetrack.
Or iceskating out on the roads.

This isn't Fem van Empel, but instead Antoinette
Rijpma-de Jong, who is quite worthy of the RhD redhead stamp of approval.

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[Sciatic]

Many Dutch cyclists have done speedskating in the winter months and the speedskaters are similarly cycling in their off-seasons, which is why you see some of them end up in cycling. I also believe all the JV speedskaters have Cervélo bikes at their disposal, but I don't know often they train with the JV riders.

I wonder if that crossover between the two sports--in the competitive realm not just training--is less common now with us being in the skeletal era of cycling. I met Eric Heiden years ago at a local race during his 7-11 days, and it's hard to imagine someone his size being in the pro peloton these days.

 

[Oldermanish]

I wonder if that crossover between the two sports--in the competitive realm not just training--is less common now with us being in the skeletal era of cycling. I met Eric Heiden years ago at a local race during his 7-11 days, and it's hard to imagine someone his size being in the pro peloton these days.

Eric was definitely huge, even for those times.
As for the skeletal era of cycling; it's not an indication of sustainable, healthy cycling. We should probably consider how short some of the contender's peak performance periods last before we project Eddy-like careers. There are a handful that look naturally capable of the training levels needed to be competitive.
That said; I can imagine skate-training would be a nice diversion from indoor cycling in appropriate climates. Almost every road, gravel and mtb rider here skate-skis to keep fit; me not included. It looks like great fun but I don't have the years to recover from teachable moments on hard surfaces anymore!

 

[RedheadDane]

This isn't Fem van Empel, but instead Antoinette
Rijpma-de Jong, who is quite worthy of the RhD redhead stamp of approval.

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View: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp7FgcXMI40/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

There she is; riding her bike on the road.

Could you imagine Kelderman, on a bike, on an icetrack?

 

[Barkintheeye]

Maybe for the bits that isn't discipline-based; strength training and such. Would look quite silly to have a bunch of cyclists on an icetrack.

Oh, I've seen that and it's not a nice sight. You may have the strongest capacity but to get that onto the ice in an efficient way is difficult to put it mildly.

I was more thinking that the ice skaters draw upon the endurance training and knowledge that the cyclist team might have.

 

[RedheadDane]

Oh, I've seen that and it's not a nice sight. You may have the strongest capacity but to get that onto the ice in an efficient way is difficult to put it mildly.

I meant cyclists in the common sense of "someone currently on a bike".
But I've actually started to wonder if riding a bike around an icetrack could be an interesting way to train bike handling.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Could you imagine Kelderman, on a bike, on an icetrack?

I wouldn't be surprised if he and Gesink turned out to be the best bike skaters around.

 

[Red Rick]

Many Dutch cyclists have done speedskating in the winter months and the speedskaters are similarly cycling in their off-seasons, which is why you see some of them end up in cycling. I also believe all the JV speedskaters have Cervélo bikes at their disposal, but I don't know often they train with the JV riders.

They rarely train with each other. I think only Sven Kramer joined a training camp of the cycling team once and that was very uncharacteristic as Kramer was basically taking a mid season break to recover and refocus a little bit.

 

[Barkintheeye]

I meant cyclists in the common sense of "someone currently on a bike".
But I've actually started to wonder if riding a bike around an icetrack could be an interesting way to train bike handling.

Wouldn't think so. Even with spiked tires it's not a lot of fun to ride on ice. Snow is fun but ice no.

On the note of crossing over (ice to cycling) I guess the only disciplines where ice skaters actually could have some success would be track cycling (very anaerobic) or possibly TT-events, but the level and specialization of professional sports today in general and pro cycling specifically is so high that it's (almost) impossible for an ice skater to cross over like Heiden did in the 80s (with some success).

Cyclists to ice? Even if Van der Poel, Van Aert and Pogacar would not be close even to the junior women ice skaters if they went to ice it would anyway be fantastic watch so hopefully a Dutch or Belgian TV-producer can convince some pro-cyclists to participate in a skating event some time soon.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Cyclists to ice? Even if Van der Poel, Van Aert and Pogacar would not be close even to the junior women ice skaters if they went to ice it would anyway be fantastic watch so hopefully a Dutch or Belgian TV-producer can convince some pro-cyclists to participate in a skating event some time soon.

Who wouldn't want to see a Van der Poel vs. van der Poel showdown?

 

[Barkintheeye]

Who wouldn't want to see a Van der Poel vs. van der Poel showdown?

Yes, that would go down in history as a MAJOR battle

 

[theyoungest]

I wonder if that crossover between the two sports--in the competitive realm not just training--is less common now with us being in the skeletal era of cycling. I met Eric Heiden years ago at a local race during his 7-11 days, and it's hard to imagine someone his size being in the pro peloton these days.

Olav Kooij is a former speedskater.

 

[BR2]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST2uqY4bqYs

 

[Barkintheeye]

Olav Kooij is a former speedskater.

Saw that. Some quick times but still a bit from some of the best:

Personal Records

500m	38,02	12 January 2019	Heerenveen (NED)
1000m	1.14,06	12 January 2019	Heerenveen (NED)
1500m	1.53,07	28 October 2018	Inzell (GER)
3000m	4.00,31	29 September 2018	Heerenveen (NED)
5000m	6.53,72	27 October 2018	Inzell (GER)

SVEN KRAMER (obviously a very tough comparison)

Personal records[edit]

Event	Result	Date	Location	Notes
Personal records​
500 meter	36.17	27 December 2009	Heerenveen
1000 meter	1:09.77	28 February 2015	Calgary
1500 meter	1:43.54	11 December 2009	Salt Lake City
3000 meter	3:37.39	20 December 2019	Heerenveen
5000 meter	6:03.32	17 November 2007	Calgary

[TD]Speed skating[/TD]​

 

[theyoungest]

Saw that. Some quick times but still a bit from some of the best:

Personal Records

500m	38,02	12 January 2019	Heerenveen (NED)
1000m	1.14,06	12 January 2019	Heerenveen (NED)
1500m	1.53,07	28 October 2018	Inzell (GER)
3000m	4.00,31	29 September 2018	Heerenveen (NED)
5000m	6.53,72	27 October 2018	Inzell (GER)

SVEN KRAMER (obviously a very tough comparison)

Personal records[edit]

Event	Result	Date	Location	Notes
Personal records​
500 meter	36.17	27 December 2009	Heerenveen
1000 meter	1:09.77	28 February 2015	Calgary
1500 meter	1:43.54	11 December 2009	Salt Lake City
3000 meter	3:37.39	20 December 2019	Heerenveen
5000 meter	6:03.32	17 November 2007	Calgary

[TD]Speed skating[/TD]​

A bit unfair indeed, since Olav Kooij was just a junior when he rode those times, but if he had the talent of Sven Kramer he probably would have stuck to speedskating

 

[Netserk]

While the Jumbo team is very successful, I don't think it's accurate to depict them as unprecedentedly dominant.

The classics division was hardly dominant in E3 or Sanremo when they were up against great opposition. They are not favoured to win Ronde either. The team hasn't won a monument or WCRR/OGRR since 2020 (and bridging across to Ala on the descent of Poggio and then beating him in the sprint is not a dominant victory, nor obviously the way Rogla won Liège). They won the Tour in a dominant fashion last year, but the battle between Vingegaard and Pogi was not similar to how Sky/Ineos suffocated the GC in 2016/2017/2018. Besides last year, they have "only" won the Vuelta, and only twice dominantly.

I also didn't come away from P-N, T-A, and Catalunya with the impression that the team was unbeatable in any of those races.