Ted King

[ToreBear]

You can spend all day arguing about time cuts in general.

- How uniformly are they applied?
- Are they open to interpretation? (commissaires taking unique situations into consideration).
- Are they open to abuse? (the classic "groupetto finish")
- The very fact that they are somewhat arbitrary (varying % of winner's time, arrived at by some formula that might include swinging three cats over your head in a burlap sack).

My point in starting the thread wasn't to critique the application of the rule. King did finish 7 seconds outside the time limit no matter how you slice it. My point was merely to point out that his own team played a real role in his unfortunate outcome especially since he only missed the cut by 7 seconds...

I agree.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...nt-says-everyone-must-accept-the-rules_293336

That article cleared up a lot of things for me.

 

[hrotha]

I think it's in the UCI rules. Rules might need changing, but that is another issue.

No, the UCI rules only say the time limit can be waived under extraordinary circumstances, if the organizers feels they must. But, if I'm not mistaken, they put quite some emphasis on "extraordinary circumstances" and doesn't mention anything about the number of riders being disqualified being a factor.

 

[ToreBear]

No, the UCI rules only say the time limit can be waived under extraordinary circumstances, if the organizers feels they must. But, if I'm not mistaken, they put quite some emphasis on "extraordinary circumstances" and doesn't mention anything about the number of riders being disqualified being a factor.

Ok, I could be mixing something up.

 

[MacRoadie]

I agree.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...nt-says-everyone-must-accept-the-rules_293336

We knew that King had crashed in the first stage, but effectively he was dropped in the first 150 meters of the stage. The team started the stage knowing that they had the danger of losing a rider to the time limit.

We didn’t know the physical condition of the rider, but he was dropped nothing more than 150 meters from taking the start. And the sport director knew the risk that the rider could have been eliminated.

My point exactly...

 

[Afrank]

Nice little show of Strava support for Ted.

 

[RiccoDinko]

Team Cannonfail!! They should have protested more. Also Ted rode a regular road bike, because the position on full TT bike was too painful.

The rules are lame!! Sprinters hangout in a big group, dragging their arses, miss the cut, and they're allowed to stay in the race. Ted turns himself inside out, barely misses.. kicked out!

Where is the justice?

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Team Cannonfail!! They should have protested more. Also Ted rode a regular road bike, because the position on full TT bike was too painful.

The rules are lame!! Sprinters hangout in a big group, dragging their arses, miss the cut, and they're allowed to stay in the race. Ted turns himself inside out, barely misses.. kicked out!

Where is the justice?

I think you just answered your own question.

 

[RiccoDinko]

I think you just answered your own question.

Yes, they intentionally group together, once they know they have the numbers to keep them in the race, they ride up mountains at club speed Exemptions to the time cut should be used for severe circumstances only, crashes caused by non rider error, and such.. Not groupetta.

 

[TheBean]

Yes, they intentionally group together, once they know they have the numbers to keep them in the race, they ride up mountains at club speed Exemptions to the time cut should be used for severe circumstances only, crashes caused by non rider error, and such.. Not groupetta.

An interesting point. IF (and it's a big "if") rules are to be followed by everyone, every time, then the guys in the grupetta should all be eliminated if they fail to meet the time cut. No questions asked.

But, the grupetta usually consists of riders from many - if not every - team in the race and the directors of the tour would face complaints from more than just one squad.

Let's face it...

Cycling is a sport where tradition often trumps rules and exceptions to the rules seem to be made at the whim of a few select people who are rarely held accountable.

It's a circus and a public spectacle - this sport.

 

[valentius borealis]

No, the UCI rules only say the time limit can be waived under extraordinary circumstances, if the organizers feels they must. But, if I'm not mistaken, they put quite some emphasis on "extraordinary circumstances" and doesn't mention anything about the number of riders being disqualified being a factor.

How long have the current rules been in place? In 2011 (in the Tour at least), if over 40% of the riders finished outside of the time limit, it wouldn't be applied.

With the situation of Ted King, while it isn't uncommon for the time limit to be waived when a rider has crashed, I can only remember this happening on that particular stage, and never on a subsequent stage.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

How long have the current rules been in place? In 2011 (in the Tour at least), if over 40% of the riders finished outside of the time limit, it wouldn't be applied.

With the situation of Ted King, while it isn't uncommon for the time limit to be waived when a rider has crashed, I can only remember this happening on that particular stage, and never on a subsequent stage.

February 1, 2012, to answer your question.

 

[zigzag wanderer]

Time limits also have an element of rider protection in them - if a rider can't make the time limit 3 days after a crash then it's probably a sign he's in a very bad way and he should stop.

Also agree about him getting no help from his team - Cannondale finished the TTT with 7 riders so they had an 8th guy out on the course who could have waited for King and helped him home - but they did nothing to help him.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Time limits also have an element of rider protection in them - if a rider can't make the time limit 3 days after a crash then it's probably a sign he's in a very bad way and he should stop.

Also agree about him getting no help from his team - Cannondale finished the TTT with 7 riders so they had an 8th guy out on the course who could have waited for King and helped him home - but they did nothing to help him.

When did they drop their eighth rider? If they dropped him with a kilometer to go, that wouldn't have done Ted King much good...no teammate would wait for six-plus minutes with one kilometer to go to help his rider make it inside the time limit, and risk being hors delai'ed himself.

As I've said though, Ted King being dropped the instant the team rolled down the ramp is an aggravating circumstance, not a mitigating one.

The UCI race jury got this one right.

 

[zigzag wanderer]

When did they drop their eighth rider? If they dropped him with a kilometer to go, that wouldn't have done Ted King much good...no teammate would wait for six-plus minutes with one kilometer to go to help his rider make it inside the time limit, and risk being hors delai'ed himself.

Just checked and Marangoni only lost 6 seconds on the rest of the team so not an option. The point stands that the team didn't seem to worried about King making it or not.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Just checked and Marangoni only lost 6 seconds on the rest of the team so not an option. The point stands that the team didn't seem to worried about King making it or not.

No argument about your point whatsoever.

 

[personal]

Maybe it was for his own good.
He can't help his team and in eventual another crash he may injure himself much more seriously.

 

[Microchip]

Maybe it was for his own good.
He can't help his team and in eventual another crash he may injure himself much more seriously.

And he should have been allowed to leave the race himself (not to injure himself more).