Teejay Van Garderen Clinic Thread

[hiero2]

Lol, those four would have needed a top up just to get out of bed

Heh. Yup. I got to admit, hyperbole gives me heartburn, but this is - timely - right on - something indicating appropriateness.

cheers!

 

[Catwhoorg]

yeah nah yeah

i would prefer that riders ride with riders that share their values and decisions and motives. atleast we know what we are buying.


do you want TJ to dope, but disassociate from LA, just for the optics? The would be BS too.

I think alot want TJ to keep on doping, but dont throw it in our (your) face by NOT disassociating from Lance. Why does one prefer TJ just to disassociate with LAnce, but keep on doing whatever he is doing, but just dont make it so overt with his endorsment of Lance.

Remember when Talansky came out in Armstrong's defense potting Landis and everyone else and supporting LA,

Remember when Wiggo said "I luv him". and then parroted the talking point "did so much for so many".

I would prefer the riders to tell the truth in this instance, because it becomes a pretty clear admission on their ethics, motives, and values.

When we never ever ever really hear most riders speak the truth. Sometimes, the actions speak louder.

I would much rather no riders doped, but realise that is a forlorn hope, but the abscence of that, yes don't associate with the "wrong" people would be a start. Let the dopers of the past fade away to insignificance.

 

[DirtyWorks]

do you want TJ to dope, but disassociate from LA, just for the optics? The would be BS too.

They recently posted a job for a "storyteller" at USAC. Not kidding. No one can touch the federation, so there is no incentive change. The stories will be about ephemeral twins and other absolutely ridiculous stories to cover for Thom's hobby.

 

[Race Radio]

i don't understand how doing a couple of rides with Lance or Leipheimer is any worse than having friggin' Vino or Riis running your team

Or Och with Freddy Viaene as head soigneur.

If TJ wanted to doped he does not need to go to Lance, there are plenty of people on his team who can show him

 

[Benotti69]

Or Och with Freddy Viaene as head soigneur.

If TJ wanted to doped he does not need to go to Lance, there are plenty of people on his team who can show him

IF? What is this IF? Of course TJ is juicing.

 

[peloton]

Or Och with Freddy Viaene as head soigneur.

If TJ wanted to doped he does not need to go to Lance, there are plenty of people on his team who can show him

Very true, but I doubt none of them, even good ol' dopemule Viaene, have been banned for life in all sports.

Beyond stupid from TJ.

 

[red_flanders]

Or Och with Freddy Viaene as head soigneur.

If TJ wanted to doped he does not need to go to Lance, there are plenty of people on his team who can show him

I don't know if anyone is suggesting Lance is telling him how to dope, I'd actually not considered it before you mention it here. I was more concerned that the supposed clean generation would not have any qualms about associating with Armstrong. It's not just that it looks bad, it's that they don't even really believe it looks bad, or they wouldn't do it.

The simplest explanation is that riders understand that to compete in GT's one had to and still has to dope, and they don't really judge Lance and Levi and George because they get that those guys did what they had to if they wanted to win. So it would feel odd to get on a high horse and give those big-name Americans the cold shoulder. They were all friends and colleagues on some level.

I get it and don't blame guys like TJ for how they act if I'm right about the motivations. I can empathize with it. It's the one explanation that seems to fit what we see folks saying and doing. IMO.

The shame is that it really does seem to confirm, to my eye anyway, that at the top of the GT level, nothing has changed. No surprise of course but it bums me out.

 

[pastronef]

Very true, but I doubt none of them, even good ol' dopemule Viaene, have been banned for life in all sports.

Beyond stupid from TJ.

banned for life from all sports does not mean LA can't train or ride a bike with whomever he wants or vice versa.

 

[pastronef]

it's that they don't even really believe it looks bad

nailed it
and it does not look bad for me just because they don't even really believe it looks bad

 

[zlev11]

i agree that it looks bad, but maybe he doesn't care how it looks? they aren't dating, it's just a bike ride.

even then, it does look bad, but who else important even cares? the "new clean generation" have all been given a pass as 100% clean by the mainstream cycling media so it's not even going to be a blip on their radar. doping is over for them, ride with whatever doper you want to ride with.

 

[red_flanders]

i agree that it looks bad, but maybe he doesn't care how it looks? they aren't dating, it's just a bike ride.

even then, it looks bad, but who even cares? the "new clean generation" have all been given a pass as 100% clean by the mainstream cycling media so it's not even going to be a blip on their radar. doping is over for them.

I'm sure he doesn't care or he wouldn't do it. He can't be unaware.

I think you're right, it is over.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Or Och with Freddy Viaene as head soigneur.

If TJ wanted to doped he does not need to go to Lance, there are plenty of people on his team who can show him

THis. is why I'm having so much trouble w Astana..but that is another thread.
TJ can't be that idiotic..about the 'associating' part that is..

so this is such a fascinating thing for me...Comical is now training young riders..Lance hanging w a lot of the 'old' peloton in public and in your face..but TJ is taking this training with Armstrong to a whole new level of wtf.

so is Hincapie sometimes joining them? I wonder if Mercier is too...
and since Taylor P is best buds w Tejay but is expected to keep his distance from the 'criminal' Armstrong I wonder if that gets awkward..

 

[thehog]

i agree that it looks bad, but maybe he doesn't care how it looks? they aren't dating, it's just a bike ride.

even then, it does look bad, but who else important even cares? the "new clean generation" have all been given a pass as 100% clean by the mainstream cycling media so it's not even going to be a blip on their radar. doping is over for them, ride with whatever doper you want to ride with.

TJ Van Instagram knows George from the team and motorpaced with a guy who lives where he resides. The conspiracy theroists will pretend it's much more but it's not like TJ has turned into Froome. He gets top 10's. Funny how Dawg gets a pass but there's plenty of innuendo on TJ.

TJ in my mind is an American Pinot. Clean.

 

[D-Queued]

TJ Van Instagram knows George from the team and motorpaced with a guy who lives where he resides. The conspiracy theroists will pretend it's much more but it's not like TJ has turned into Froome. He gets top 10's. Funny how Dawg gets a pass but there's plenty of innuendo on TJ.

TJ in my mind is an American Pinot. Clean.

But not very smart. At least, not very smart with his associations.

Adapting Ullrich: If you haven't figured out that Lance is toxic, then I can't help you.

Dave.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Lance is trying to sidle up to them all to redeem his rep w the public..the peloton for the most part does not seem to care so maybe this is what is important in Tejay's mind..

 

[Tonton]

TJ Van Instagram knows George from the team and motorpaced with a guy who lives where he resides. The conspiracy theroists will pretend it's much more but it's not like TJ has turned into Froome. He gets top 10's. Funny how Dawg gets a pass but there's plenty of innuendo on TJ.

TJ in my mind is an American Pinot. Clean.

Looking back at the '14 TdF, TJVG didn't post any performances that left me scratching my head. He rode strong, couldn't match the bests, hung in there, got weaker on week 3.

Stupid, yes: I would refer to the other thread, "you are clean, what to say", and in that light he's not helping himself. Like a track guy training with Ben Johnson. Like Dave said: toxic.

 

[thehog]

Lance is trying to sidle up to them all to redeem his rep w the public..the peloton for the most part does not seem to care so maybe this is what is important in Tejay's mind..

Yes that's it. That's all he's trying to do.....

Apart from defending 9 lawsuits one of which has a potential $90m fallout... Kinda think that's on his mind rather than what the public think. But do keep with your pretending with your conspiracies and the like... it's fun to to read.

 

[thehog]

Looking back at the '14 TdF, TJVG didn't post any performances that left me scratching my head. He rode strong, couldn't match the bests, hung in there, got weaker on week 3.

Stupid, yes: I would refer to the other thread, "you are clean, what to say", and in that light he's not helping himself. Like a track guy training with Ben Johnson. Like Dave said: toxic.

Oh please. Lance on the hook for $90m and is hooking up present day riders with cheap Chinese EPO... yes, thats happening for sure...

From a perception point of view is bad but there's not much else in it.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Yes that's it. That's all he's trying to do.....

Apart from defending 9 lawsuits one of which has a potential $90m fallout... Kinda think that's on his mind rather than what the public think. But do keep with your pretending with your conspiracies and the like... it's fun to to read.

my point was that Tejay might only care what the peloton think...not what is going on with Lance. He (TEJAY) must not really bother w what the public or fans think.

 

[thehog]

my point was that Tejay might only care what the peloton think...not what is going on with Lance. He (TEJAY) must not really bother w what the public or fans think.

I'm fairly sure he's just riding his bike and racing, that's about it.

The peloton doesn't think anything. When you've got Sky going all Tenerife and Astana doing the Vino-step, I really don't think they care.

 

[Tonton]

Oh please. Lance on the hook for $90m and is hooking up present day riders with cheap Chinese EPO... yes, thats happening for sure...

From a perception point of view is bad but there's not much else in it.

I don't understand you quoting me and making this statement

WRT the $90M, Lance and the Chinese EPO, it would great for a movie, Leonardo di Caprio in "The Wolf of L'Alpe D'Huez" or maybe have Matthew McConaughey do the part: he's a friend... Seriously, I don't think Lance would dare pulling that one.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I don't understand you quoting me and making this statement

WRT the $90M, Lance and the Chinese EPO, it would great for a movie, Leonardo di Caprio in "The Wolf of L'Alpe D'Huez" or maybe have Matthew McConaughey do the part: he's a friend... Seriously, I don't think Lance would dare pulling that one.

LOL
just had the same thought as well re my comment

I think its the Confuse-a-Cat service responding..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzi3k7K0lFA

 

[Granville57]

i agree that it looks bad, but maybe he doesn't care how it looks? they aren't dating, it's just a bike ride.

But then these guys are the first ones to start whining when someone questions their accomplishments, or the state of the sport in general.

If TJ doesn't care about perception, or thinks it's perfectly fine to go on dates with Lance, then I expect he also won't mind when on forums and Twitter question the authenticity of his team and other people who he is associated with.

I hear plenty of moaning from the new guys about how things have changed, and how the past is the past. Play dates with Lance don't exactly inspire confidence in me if that were the case.

These guys may not care about the public perception of their actions, but then when questioned, what we mostly get from them is indignation. Well, sorry fellas, but you can't have it both ways. Walk the walk, or STFU.

 

[Granville57]

TJ Van Instagram knows George from the team and motorpaced with a guy who lives where he resides.

Really? Is that what it is? Just another neighbor? I suppose TJ comes up short when looking for people around him who could ride a scooter?

Apart from defending 9 lawsuits one of which has a potential $90m fallout... Kinda think that's on his mind rather than what the public think. But do keep with your pretending with your conspiracies and the like... it's fun to to read.

Huh. That's weird, especially since you just recently posted this:

"If Clinton, after the affair at the White House, was told he could never speak in public again, never go around the world helping people, do all the things he does now, then he'd go down as the guy who did, you know, blah blah blah, with the intern. He'd still be considered an a**hole. Tiger, too.

"They're forgiven because they got a chance to come back and tell a different strory. But I can't change that narrative. I'm forever the a**hole."

He does have a point.... maybe a little one dressed down with a heavy dose of cynicism.

Sounds like Lance is still every bit as concerned about public perception—as he always has been, and always will be.

 

[mewmewmew13]

But then these guys are the first ones to start whining when someone questions their accomplishments, or the state of the sport in general.

If TJ doesn't care about perception, or thinks it's perfectly fine to go on dates with Lance, then I expect he also won't mind when on forums and Twitter question the authenticity of his team and other people who he is associated with.

I hear plenty of moaning from the new guys about how things have changed, and how the past is the past. Play dates with Lance don't exactly inspire confidence in me if that were the case.

These guys may not care about the public perception of their actions, but then when questioned, what we mostly get from them is indignation. Well, sorry fellas, but you can't have it both ways. Walk the walk, or STFU.

huzzah!

good post Gville