Tejay Van Garderen Discussion Thread

Page 34 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
GVA has ridden better than Sagan all season
Richie Porte has been climbing better than Froome
BMC other riders have won stages in many races including Dennis, Senni, Dillier, Hermans, Kung
Teuns 3rd in La Fletche
SAMU beside being almost 40 still riding very well and nearly won a stage at Pais Vasco

And its all BMC fault ??

What a load of clap trap .....TJVG issues are in relation to TJ ....
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again: TJVG is a Bobby Julich clone. Julich had to have his ego destroyed every year for five years straight before going to CSC and rebuilding himself as the best week long racer in the world in 2004-05 at 32 years old. Julich was more talented, but TeeJay has more than enough.
 
Re:

HelloDolly said:
GVA has ridden better than Sagan all season
Richie Porte has been climbing better than Froome
BMC other riders have won stages in many races including Dennis, Senni, Dillier, Hermans, Kung
Teuns 3rd in La Fletche
SAMU beside being almost 40 still riding very well and nearly won a stage at Pais Vasco

And its all BMC fault ??

What a load of clap trap .....TJVG issues are in relation to TJ ....
I think the signing of Porte screwed him up. He was coming off of 2014 and riding high in the 2015 tour when he collapsed. He probably felt so close to breaking through then snapped. Instead of reinforcing their belief in a still young guy, they went out and brought in another leader. I'm not blaming the team (Porte has delivered), but it probably screwed with TeeJay's fragile psyche.
 
Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
TJVG is by no means my favourite rider - again you are being "clever", but you are totalliy wrong. I just stand for anyone who is unfairly bashed by keyboard heroes like you are. You act like a je*k and "touchy touchy" and "dude" doesn't make it better.

Regarding ilness - one may suffer ilness which he doesn't even know about but can be devastating for his performance.

To delete social media is sign of mental weakness? It is not. Quite on the contrary it can be sign of mental health or mental maturity. Especially with people like you commenting.

Communication via internet makes this with people I guess...be it live encounter, I guess you would behave and talk differently. But for now, behind keyboard, you are da man, tough guy, aren't you.
I read "bla bla bla you're a jerk bla bla bla you're this and that". Yet, you're the one making personal attacks. Funny thing, right? :lol:
 
Re: Re:

perico said:
HelloDolly said:
GVA has ridden better than Sagan all season
Richie Porte has been climbing better than Froome
BMC other riders have won stages in many races including Dennis, Senni, Dillier, Hermans, Kung
Teuns 3rd in La Fletche
SAMU beside being almost 40 still riding very well and nearly won a stage at Pais Vasco

And its all BMC fault ??

What a load of clap trap .....TJVG issues are in relation to TJ ....
I think the signing of Porte screwed him up. He was coming off of 2014 and riding high in the 2015 tour when he collapsed. He probably felt so close to breaking through then snapped. Instead of reinforcing their belief in a still young guy, they went out and brought in another leader. I'm not blaming the team (Porte has delivered), but it probably screwed with TeeJay's fragile psyche.

I think that's very possible.
 
Re:

Galic Ho said:
lenric...

You must be such a funny guy.

Who here remembers the mental fortitude of that stellar of German physical prowess, Jan Ullrich?

Why have a photo for your avatar of a rider who certainly had questionable mental flops during his GT career, and pick on another rider for the same issues?

It's because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Back in 2014 when Tejay had his first event, aka, he bonks after the second rest day of the Tour, I noted it could occur in 2015.

2015 rolls around and this time, Tejay cannot even turn his crank. He was dropped on the Queen stage on the FIRST hill, by the groupetto.

Then came a litany of excuses. Personally many were quite funny to hear and then witness Tejay eat his words. So yes, I agree he boasts way too much.

However I did remark in 2015 BMC have a responsibility to protect the mental health of all their riders. Nobody addressed Tejay's clear issue. 2016 rolls around, Tejay and Porte rode how many races pre Tour? Zip from memory. That is tactically stupid.

Second stage of the Tour, ALL the BMC squad minus Tejay, Porte and van Avermaet had been dropped. Some fool decided they'd do a turn on the front. I said out loud "I hope one of them gets a puncture." 500m later Porte has a puncture. Porte eventually loses second place in the Tour because of that.

The entire time though, being someone who was overtly critical of Porte, was clearly saying, that BMC needed to make him leader. Tejay and BMC promised us they'd solved Tejay's issues. Tejay bonked AGAIN on the second rests days following stage. Blew 20 mins, then even more the next day. Suddenly he is an hour behind.

Here is the CRAZY piece of this puzzle! I said BMC needed ONE leader in 2015. Even more so in 2016 and it needed to be Porte. Tejay was so tired he couldn't help. A whole rider, brought along to just collapse and do what?

That's right, mentally disintegrate. I called it.

Why? Because Tejay's issue was clear in 2014. It's physical. He lost far too much weight to compete as a climber, sacrificing some of his ITT power and now, when the races get to 10+ days, his body can't handle it. Oh, yes, the rivals can.

Tejay ain't them. The solution I gave last year was simple, to protect him mentally the team needed to remove him as a GC leader, put some weight on him, have him be a domestique for a season and reshape him as a 1 week, classics, chrono/ITT rider.

BMC didn't listen. SSDD is what Lance use to say. Heck lenric, Lance beat Ullrich non stop. Tejay rides with Lance in his spare time!!

It's simple, hire a good sports dietitian, figure out a healthier heavier weight for Tejay and ride for the whole season at that weight. Tejay is mentally cracking BECAUSE his body actually does shut down after a week of racing. It's not present during a stage race because he does not have accumulated fatigue. His bodies natural glucose and fat stores are not good enough...they depleted and he bonks.

Jan Ullrich never had that issue because he had body fat galore for a cyclist. His fault was actually mental. But, you knew this right lenric?

Again...leave the forum for a year and those who can't spot the obvious are running amok.

It's physical...when your body doesn't behave as your MEMORY remembers, the result that FLOWS from this is mentally draining. Tonton is right, that sucks BIG time. Tejay gets compassion for me, because this was all bloody obvious 3 years ago. Heck, I even predicted they'd ignore it.

However look at this year. They announced without any reasoning to justify Tejay not having to rethink things, that he is a GC rider at season beginning! After last years Tour, he went to the Vuelta, claimed he would go for stage wins. Couldn't even finish that GT. Tejay either bombs out or doesn't finish the GT's he races now. That's an energy problem...what on earth are all of you watching who didn't recognize this? It's physically what his body refuses to do. The solution is to put on more weight, not bonk BUT change his perspective and approach to riding.

BMC however are morons of the finest order. Cheating Movistar at (correct me if the race was another) Pais Vasco in the chrono I saw as a clear tactic of cowardice KNOWING Tejay needed all the freebies he could get. Valverde still flogged him!

I also said, Tejay should have put some weight on, switched his objectives, been a helper for GvA and Porte and AIMED to win as many Tour of California's and Utah's as he can get. Because that's still a good result. BMC are beyond delusional...they're responsible for his mental state right now. He should switch teams if he can.

Oh right...no social media. He won't get this. BMC, if you're reading this or ride for the team, if I could spot it in 2015, what on earth is your excuse? He rides with Lance so he should 'be alright to go?' That's literally the only thing I can consider. Tell him once again, to pack some muscle and body fat on, focus on his ITT again and then go for stage race wins....it's not rocket science.

Yes he can get his form back. Yes it's physical. Yes it's reversible. Put some weight on...reverse the extravagant weight loss, power goes up, body has more fat, has more fuel in longer races to fall back on, he can last longer and actually pedal.

Sheesh....I'll be back in a year. Hopefully he's still riding.
I have only read this was directed towards me. Unfortunately, it's a mile long post, so sorry, didn't read. Resume it, this year or in the next. Or don't, your choice. ;)
 
Re: Re:

Galic Ho said:
Netserk said:
Is there a tl;dr somewhere?
Looking at his last 3 years in GT's, it's been horrible to witness.

That will mentally impact anyone.

He's in some form of denial. So are the team. Yes, they're loyal. Loyal but very dumb.

Meanwhile GvA is winning a lot of races, many he shouldn't.

Tejay in 2012 had more promise than him.

This all started when he rode his first Tour and did really well.

Someone said drop some weight...you'll compete. That he did.

Problems arise when the body gets pushed below is natural weight level. Many of these boys are already naturally thin. Many get too thin to compete. Long term competition.

Get a Dr...no, look at what's actually happening. A doctor cannot sign off on nutrition. They're not within scope of practice. A dietitian, namely a good sports one needs to address his energy issues. His body is clearly not providing enough energy via it's energy pathways (krebs cycle) to fuel his body. Heck, there is a forum member here named after his problem!

This needs to be solved in the off season. Fixing it mid season won't work. Gosh I hope they don't take him to the Tour. It should have been fixed last year! Tejay and BMC said beginning of 2016 it was! So, in essence, they either deceived themselves or have been lying. I believe it's the former. Deceived.

As for the crap way BMC ride...I'll laugh at that all day long. Rarely take a turn, but love getting the spotlight. So, yes, I do think given the way the team react and have talked, that they do open themselves up for comments like lenrics.

OVER HYPED. The whole team has been. This is called reaping what they sowed. Lance should have warned Tejay...
Well, three months is three months, it doesn't really matter when they fall on the calendar. June, July, August are the same as October, November, December, but the weather is better for training. If you are correct, I think that you could be, and he needs to adjust his body comp., and nutrition, he could start this month and have things moving in the right direction for late summer and fall racing.
 
TJVG is a guy I've always thought had ability but got overhyped. The hype can also destroy you, as we well know. The thing is, though he had pretty good puncheur skills as an espoir and early in his career (check him on Valdepeñas de Jaén in the 2010 Vuelta), since he's looked to move into GT contention, he's been mostly (not entirely, but mostly) a diesel climber, and the lower to mid-gradient climbs have been his staple foodstuff. The 2012 Tour suited him in that respect, with the course having been seemingly constructed around Wiggins, a GT contender with a strong TT and a preference for tempo grinding climbing, which suited Tejay down to the ground. If you look at his results in the high mountains, all career long Tejay has been at his best on longer, more consistent climbs. He's consistently been strong at the Volta a Catalunya, until last year the only race he'd won a mountain stage at outside of the USA, but only once has he been remotely competitive at País Vasco - and even then, that was the 2014 edition when he was 6th and he didn't finish higher than 9th in any stage. He's been a beast in the US, but the mountain climbs in Colorado and the likes are of a different character to those in Europe, often wider, lower average gradient (not always of course, but the general climbs in the USAPCC have more in common with the likes of Beret, Bonaigua and the Andorra climbs than they do with Covadonga, Angliru or Hazallanas, let's say).

Parcours trends have therefore been against him; traditional low gradient stompers that may have suited him are out of vogue in the Vuelta, which renders it ill-suited to a rider of his skills (the Rettenbachferner win in the Tour de Suisse last year was perhaps a sign that this was changing, but for the time being seems anomalous in his palmarès). The contre-le-montre, where he holds the advantage over the more delicate climbers, is finding itself shrunk in distance and so the gains to be made by somebody whose strength as a GC rider lies in that direction are being limited. The Giro has a habit of unpredictable racing and also climbs like Blockhaus are not the sort that Tejay has historically gone well at. When you look at this year's Romandie parcours, it doesn't really tell us anything about the kind of climbing necessary on a climb approaching 9%, so while van Garderen looked like he had good form coming in, it doesn't look like the steeper gradients have been kind to him.

As such, the Tour is the GT that most suits his needs as a GC rider, but also given its prominence in the calendar and with everybody looking to peak, the GT least likely to see an edition where he's the strongest rider to make it to Paris. If he'd come around in the late 90s, those early 2000s Vueltas won by the likes of Casero and Aitor González, or the edition where Heras took the lead off Nozal in the final MTT, would have been ideal for him, whereas since he's emerged as a stage racer, the Vuelta has been a completely different beast to those days, with TT mileage minimal and a dozen uphill finishes on climbs ranging from "extremely short and steep" to "short and extremely steep".

He's no bum, no failure, the guy's still a great bike rider. He's been 5th and 6th in two WT stage races. He can still fulfil a role as a GC leader at a smaller team if they could afford it, as a route to potential invites, or as a super-domestique/secondary option for big teams, who is too dangerous to allow any rope to, and a more than capable secondary helper if the main GC leader fails. He would be good fulfilling the kind of role Melchior Mauri did in the mid-90s for ONCE. Unfortunately for Tejay, he didn't get to fluke a GT win first.
 
Re: Re:

Squire said:
movingtarget said:
Have you looked at some of the other GC riders that do get results ? They are thinner than TJVG. I doubt that it's simply weight loss and that doesn't explain why he can compete in one week races and not three week races. A team like BMC who is paying TJVG a good salary would have looked into nutrition, blood values, viruses, basically everything. I refuse to believe that the team is that clueless in running tests and looking for answers for one of their highest paid riders. Nutrition would be one of the basics along with training and recovery.
That wouldn't surprise me one bit. Kristoff was definitely not impressed with the team during his tenure there, and they aren't exactly known for getting the best out of their riders.
One riders opinion. Evans always had good things to say about how BMC ran things as does Porte and other riders. Even TJVG has said that the team have been very supportive.
 
It could as easily be an injury but not disclosed to the public. Andy Schleck and Van den Broeck come to mind. 3 years may be too long to blame on nutrition but a lot of people cannot adapt to the low weight and the power demands of GTs.
I expect him to go to Cannondale for some peace and quiet. After all, less spotlight when the entire team fails.
 
Re:

IndianCyclist said:
It could as easily be an injury but not disclosed to the public. Andy Schleck and Van den Broeck come to mind. 3 years may be too long to blame on nutrition but a lot of people cannot adapt to the low weight and the power demands of GTs.
I expect him to go to Cannondale for some peace and quiet. After all, less spotlight when the entire team fails.
That's the problem for TJVG. No team will sign him unless he shows signs of improvement and no team will sign him for the money he is currently receiving. He will have to take a sizeable pay cut for a different role or as a secondary GT rider. Who would sign him as a marquee GT rider ? Cannondale already have enough issues getting results in the major races although some of their younger riders have showed good signs. Not sure why they signed Phinney, Uran or Rolland.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
IndianCyclist said:
It could as easily be an injury but not disclosed to the public. Andy Schleck and Van den Broeck come to mind. 3 years may be too long to blame on nutrition but a lot of people cannot adapt to the low weight and the power demands of GTs.
I expect him to go to Cannondale for some peace and quiet. After all, less spotlight when the entire team fails.
That's the problem for TJVG. No team will sign him unless he shows signs of improvement and no team will sign him for the money he is currently receiving. He will have to take a sizeable pay cut for a different role or as a secondary GT rider. Who would sign him as a marquee GT rider ? Cannondale already have enough issues getting results in the major races although some of their younger riders have showed good signs. Not sure why they signed Phinney, Uran or Rolland.
He's going to have to take less money, but he's talented and young enough where he should have little problems finding a WT team.
 
Re: Re:

Moviefan1203 said:
movingtarget said:
IndianCyclist said:
It could as easily be an injury but not disclosed to the public. Andy Schleck and Van den Broeck come to mind. 3 years may be too long to blame on nutrition but a lot of people cannot adapt to the low weight and the power demands of GTs.
I expect him to go to Cannondale for some peace and quiet. After all, less spotlight when the entire team fails.
That's the problem for TJVG. No team will sign him unless he shows signs of improvement and no team will sign him for the money he is currently receiving. He will have to take a sizeable pay cut for a different role or as a secondary GT rider. Who would sign him as a marquee GT rider ? Cannondale already have enough issues getting results in the major races although some of their younger riders have showed good signs. Not sure why they signed Phinney, Uran or Rolland.
He's going to have to take less money, but he's talented and young enough where he should have little problems finding a WT team.
I think that you are correct. He will likely have to shift his focus, but there are WT teams that will sign him. I would be willing to bet that there are plenty of PC teams that would sign him as well. I've tried to find an accurate salary list for cyclist, but I din't have any luck. Many have indicated that he isn't worth what he is making, likely without knowing what he is actually making. Plus, his value is what a team is willing to pay him. With that said, I can see a team paying him less salary, but building in performance bonuses so that if he races well, he won't make less money.
 
Re: Re:

RedheadDane said:
DanielSong39 said:
His performance in 1-week stage races are actually pretty decent.
Which is why he should focus on those 100%, no shame in finding out that maybe you aren't cut out to be a GT rider.

...
Why? Because Tejay's issue was clear in 2014. It's physical. He lost far too much weight to compete as a climber, sacrificing some of his ITT power and now, when the races get to 10+ days, his body can't handle it. Oh, yes, the rivals can.
Funny, I thought losing weight as a climber was generally seen as a good thing...
Dane and movingtarget, that might be the point, he isn't able to get as lean as others and still survive beyond a week.

I was never PT level, but I did race pro on the dirt. I raced my best at 145-148 (obviously there's a body comp equation included). I had to be careful at 145 though because that seemed to be my tipping point. My power and endurance dropped around there. When I had four or five race weekends in a row plus travel (and travel food), I could easily drop more weight and it was game over for me. At the end of my racing days I spent two years racing short track and GP (60 minute, 4-7 lap races) at 151 lbs. I felt so good with all of that "extra" muscle! :D

So if Tejay's best weight is 155, but he's trying to come into a GT at 150 (or even less) and race every day, it might quickly bite him. Its a way more delicate balance than many people seem to understand.
 
Re: Re:

jmdirt said:
RedheadDane said:
DanielSong39 said:
His performance in 1-week stage races are actually pretty decent.
Which is why he should focus on those 100%, no shame in finding out that maybe you aren't cut out to be a GT rider.

...
Why? Because Tejay's issue was clear in 2014. It's physical. He lost far too much weight to compete as a climber, sacrificing some of his ITT power and now, when the races get to 10+ days, his body can't handle it. Oh, yes, the rivals can.
Funny, I thought losing weight as a climber was generally seen as a good thing...
Dane and movingtarget, that might be the point, he isn't able to get as lean as others and still survive beyond a week.

I was never PT level, but I did race pro on the dirt. I raced my best at 145-148 (obviously there's a body comp equation included). I had to be careful at 145 though because that seemed to be my tipping point. My power and endurance dropped around there. When I had four or five race weekends in a row plus travel (and travel food), I could easily drop more weight and it was game over for me. At the end of my racing days I spent two years racing short track and GP (60 minute, 4-7 lap races) at 151 lbs. I felt so good with all of that "extra" muscle! :D

So if Tejay's best weight is 155, but he's trying to come into a GT at 150 (or even less) and race every day, it might quickly bite him. Its a way more delicate balance than many people seem to understand.
I don't know there may be something in it but in this race even in the first week he was dropping time so who knows. He dropped another two minutes today which is his best climbing performance of the race so far. I wonder if they will put him in the Vuelta and see if he can get a stage win if he doesn't want to race for GC.
 
Aug 12, 2009
3,639
0
0
Re: Re:

Have you looked at some of the other GC riders that do get results ? They are thinner than TJVG. I doubt that it's simply weight loss and that doesn't explain why he can compete in one week races and not three week races. A team like BMC who is paying TJVG a good salary would have looked into nutrition, blood values, viruses, basically everything. I refuse to believe that the team is that clueless in running tests and looking for answers for one of their highest paid riders. Nutrition would be one of the basics along with training and recovery.
Yes movingtarget, I looked at his build.

He's clearly too thin.

The simple fact of the matter is, post 2014, he has had an endurance problem after 2 weeks particularly on the post rest day.

That's a simple pattern to see. It is what and where the problem manifests.

Except now, it's made worse. He cannot even last 10 days. That's not a GC rider.

Who cares how thin everyone else is? If they can turn the crank and not bonk, that's what matters.

Tejay can't even do that properly. He has an obvious lack of energy. That's metabolic. It's not hard to recognise.

Except around cycling fans...

He should clearly stick to shorter races. Like the Tour of California. If Bennett can win that, surely Tejay can podium. He doesn't even need to put on much weight. 5kg of mostly muscle and he should have that won.

But that isn't as grand as winning a GT now is it? Of course not. But it's realistic.

Go and look at how the bodies energy pathways work. Many cyclists are hugging a very thin line with their weight. That's to compete as a GC rider. Tejay's body is not lying, he literally shuts down. That's energy related and yes, relies strongly on his fat stores that his body tries to use when it's being pushed longer than a week.

A GT is harder than training. It's very brutal. He should be realistic and change his tune. He's not losing chunks of small time, he literally cannot keep up when major fatigue sets in. That's energy related BECAUSE once upon a time, he actually could. Hence his two 5th places at the Tour.
 
Aug 12, 2009
3,639
0
0
Re: Re:

RedheadDane said:


When it comes to getting a power to weight ratio, mechanically speaking, yes it's an advantage.

But what happens to your bodies energy systems when your fat stores get very low AND you throw in 3 weeks of hardcore endurance racing (it's a race and it's raced HARD)?

Dangerous cases of people bonking out. He went below his bodies limit. The pattern will continue to repeat itself until Tejay rectifies his position on his weight. His weight reflects his desire to be a GC rider, but naturally, his body says stop.

So stop he does. It's why his answers for HOW and WHY he fails are really telling.

He thinks he is fine. Naturally he is for the first week. He can keep up or lose minimal time. Then fatigue kicks in and boom...body shuts down because he is too thin. Do you even know how the bodies energy pathways work to produce ATP energy?

What I am saying is Tejay's body when he gets fatigued will draw on his fat stores for some, not a lot, but some energy when glucose gets lower. This happens more after LONGER uninterrupted training runs, around the 2nd week of a GT.

Simple solution, as this is more than likely weight related, and an illness would have been discovered by now, he needs to add more weight.

PS: Robbie McEwen said exactly this last year when asked was Tejay a GC rider during the Tour de France. He said no, said he was too thin and would not last.

But by all means, BMC can run the idiot card and try the same stuff again. That's one of the definitions of insanity. Plus others being thin and not bonking doesn't make it right for Tejay. Tejay's actual inability to ride in any form once his body says stop, is indicative that something MUST change or his body will shut itself down. I actually believe he doesn't understand what's happening as he appears to believe he doesn't have an issue sensation wise over a week, but add in more volume and yes, he suddenly does. Note, I don't think you can out train this, or invoke it during training. Why? You'll never not rest up and take time off or push to that fatigue like in a proper race. Which is why it doesn't happen in training.

During training Tejay might actually be the strongest rider on BMC...

But during a race, he has become a liability. They should wise up and try something new. Like gaining some weight. Test it and see if he can actually finish a GT. That's not hard to do. He just eats a lot more.
 
Aug 12, 2009
3,639
0
0
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:


Yeah, again...

*Edited by King Boonen*

He cannot even finish a GT.

And they made him leader, AGAIN, with a string of back to back failings.

Yes, they are dumb and complacent with his mental health, because ANYONE in that situation would be in pain knowing they keep failing. Lenric was right on that point, but a bit harsh.

This is the same outfit that denied knowing Floyd Landis doped when they were Phonak. Yes they are that dumb.

Who here would have allowed Tejay to ride a GC this year, after the last 3 years results, as a GC leader?

Only a moron. What is the standard practice to do with riders who are GC candidates post 2005 and especially in the 2008 Athlete Bio Passport days? Major weight loss. Nobody said they didn't test him. It's not about the WHY anymore, it's really about WHO would consider making him a leader with no guarantee?

Not anyone with any common sense. PS: they lied about fixing his problem and so did Tejay. They said last year it was solved and now it's worse! So by all means, REFUSE to believe.

It's great being back in the forum where people follow cycling but can't put 2 and 2 together. He cannot ride. He gets laughed at. He cannot even domestique well for someone else over 3 weeks! That's a serious matter. And it's unresolved. Say what you want but the evidence is clear, BMC don't know what's going on but stubbornly refuse to REMOVE Tejay as a GC rider. That's unhealthy for him mentally...so yes, they're still dumb IMO.

Note, Cadel never had this issue. Why? Because he never had to lose lots of weight to be a GC rider. Tejay should see how he rides when mid to high 60kg weight range, around GvA weight.

If you want to know what being super light weight is...try it out. It's not all it's cracked up to be.
 
Aug 12, 2009
3,639
0
0
perico said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: TJVG is a Bobby Julich clone. Julich had to have his ego destroyed every year for five years straight before going to CSC and rebuilding himself as the best week long racer in the world in 2004-05 at 32 years old. Julich was more talented, but TeeJay has more than enough.
There is nothing wrong with being a solid stage racer.

Fabian Cancellara once won the Tour de Suisse.

And he is lot a light mountain goat climber.

It's all about priorities. Getting those solid GC rides upon leaving HTC have done him no good long term.

Switched his trajectory, and suddenly a rider who looked like a good time trialist, possible classics rider who could have excelled at stage races, suddenly was the NEXT GC rider, mind you, along with every second pony riding a bike.

It worked for 2012 and a little bit in 2014. Tejay had to improve his climbing endurance from 2014 that saw him dropped from the front riders on the last climbs. It's been getting WORSE every year since.

Time to change. Not bashing Tejay, just saying there are other alternatives. He could domestique for Porte in GT's and focus on the time trial, or team time trial. BMC has so many potential riders they can stage hunt with...

Yeah, but they keep flogging this horse. It's beaten. Time to change.
 
Aug 12, 2009
3,639
0
0
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
Squire said:
movingtarget said:
Have you looked at some of the other GC riders that do get results ? They are thinner than TJVG. I doubt that it's simply weight loss and that doesn't explain why he can compete in one week races and not three week races. A team like BMC who is paying TJVG a good salary would have looked into nutrition, blood values, viruses, basically everything. I refuse to believe that the team is that clueless in running tests and looking for answers for one of their highest paid riders. Nutrition would be one of the basics along with training and recovery.
That wouldn't surprise me one bit. Kristoff was definitely not impressed with the team during his tenure there, and they aren't exactly known for getting the best out of their riders.
One riders opinion. Evans always had good things to say about how BMC ran things as does Porte and other riders. Even TJVG has said that the team have been very supportive.
Look at those GC riders who left Quickstep.

Uran came second in the Giro riding for them. Little support, but had solid enough form to look like he'd win.

Uran suddenly joins Garmin aka Cannondale and it's all downhill. Dan Martin sucked at Garmin, joins Quickstep and raced with new enthusiasm and vigor. Tejay's environment might be very cheery and supportive, but it's not translating into tangible race results. But we all know Quickstep have a different contract system which doesn't favour everyone.

Proof? Gilbert. Crap at BMC post 2011. Absolutely garbage. He performed really badly, often injured.

Joins a new team, new environment...wins a monument. The new environment for WHATEVER reason, was conducive to him getting better results very quickly. I don't care what the WHY and WHAT is, but I do recognise it clearly produced tangible results in races.

And good for Gilbert.

They should be changing something. If that means taking pressure off him as a GC rider, then do it. ASAP.

Oh and lenric was right on one thing...he should be sent to a sports psychologist as well. His thinking needs to change. Because he is in a mental slump. Not his fault, but hey, by all means, BMC can ignore that too.

BMC have a massive budget. They in theory, should have had a GT podium since Cadel's Giro placing. They did actually hire someone with that intent. He was in second place in last years Tour when considering that puncture...

Straight up, everyone knows nationalistic fervent patriotism exists in cycling. The Aussies who expect Porte to win are a little mad IMO. Most are too naive to say BMC threw his chances of a podium last year away, but for me, someone who use to dislike Porte to say they did...the point holds. Change something BMC.

BMC waste lots of resources in races. I've lost count of the races where they did not do big turns at the front. I remember they use to. But Cadel was riding and calling the shots then. It's a miracle GvA rides for them. Imagine what he'd do riding for Quickstep?

Everyone can be kind, heck Libertine has some exemplary things about the parcours, and yes, those points do stand that Tejay would possibly be faring better in the 90s. EPO was on point then too, so bigger heavier guys could climb. I'll agree hands down he'd have a chance back then. But most GC riders are much smaller now. So how would adding more power with weight help his riding style on longer, lower inclined events go? Well in theory. Might even solve his issues. But he won't suddenly become a GC rider these days without something shockingly sinister occurring. Plus, it would have by now! He knows the people to get that done......he rides with Lance Armstrong in his spare time. If it were really that issue, wouldn't he asked for pointers by now?
 
Re: Re:

Galic Ho said:
movingtarget said:
Squire said:
movingtarget said:
Have you looked at some of the other GC riders that do get results ? They are thinner than TJVG. I doubt that it's simply weight loss and that doesn't explain why he can compete in one week races and not three week races. A team like BMC who is paying TJVG a good salary would have looked into nutrition, blood values, viruses, basically everything. I refuse to believe that the team is that clueless in running tests and looking for answers for one of their highest paid riders. Nutrition would be one of the basics along with training and recovery.
That wouldn't surprise me one bit. Kristoff was definitely not impressed with the team during his tenure there, and they aren't exactly known for getting the best out of their riders.
One riders opinion. Evans always had good things to say about how BMC ran things as does Porte and other riders. Even TJVG has said that the team have been very supportive.
Look at those GC riders who left Quickstep.

Uran came second in the Giro riding for them. Little support, but had solid enough form to look like he'd win.

Uran suddenly joins Garmin aka Cannondale and it's all downhill. Dan Martin sucked at Garmin, joins Quickstep and raced with new enthusiasm and vigor. Tejay's environment might be very cheery and supportive, but it's not translating into tangible race results. But we all know Quickstep have a different contract system which doesn't favour everyone.

Proof? Gilbert. Crap at BMC post 2011. Absolutely garbage. He performed really badly, often injured.

Joins a new team, new environment...wins a monument. The new environment for WHATEVER reason, was conducive to him getting better results very quickly. I don't care what the WHY and WHAT is, but I do recognise it clearly produced tangible results in races.

And good for Gilbert.

They should be changing something. If that means taking pressure off him as a GC rider, then do it. ASAP.

Oh and lenric was right on one thing...he should be sent to a sports psychologist as well. His thinking needs to change. Because he is in a mental slump. Not his fault, but hey, by all means, BMC can ignore that too.

BMC have a massive budget. They in theory, should have had a GT podium since Cadel's Giro placing. They did actually hire someone with that intent. He was in second place in last years Tour when considering that puncture...

Straight up, everyone knows nationalistic fervent patriotism exists in cycling. The Aussies who expect Porte to win are a little mad IMO. Most are too naive to say BMC threw his chances of a podium last year away, but for me, someone who use to dislike Porte to say they did...the point holds. Change something BMC.

BMC waste lots of resources in races. I've lost count of the races where they did not do big turns at the front. I remember they use to. But Cadel was riding and calling the shots then. It's a miracle GvA rides for them. Imagine what he'd do riding for Quickstep?

Everyone can be kind, heck Libertine has some exemplary things about the parcours, and yes, those points do stand that Tejay would possibly be faring better in the 90s. EPO was on point then too, so bigger heavier guys could climb. I'll agree hands down he'd have a chance back then. But most GC riders are much smaller now. So how would adding more power with weight help his riding style on longer, lower inclined events go? Well in theory. Might even solve his issues. But he won't suddenly become a GC rider these days without something shockingly sinister occurring. Plus, it would have by now! He knows the people to get that done......he rides with Lance Armstrong in his spare time. If it were really that issue, wouldn't he asked for pointers by now?
There are many factors but ultimately power to weight/watts per kilograms is key. The solution is important, not the variables, ie: Naro vs. Tom at the GdI, Their weight and watts are different, but I bet that they are both in the 6 w/kg range. Note: I don't know what to 'trust' in determining this number for pros.

So Tejay: I think that when he gets down to the weight that he thinks a GC rider should be, his w/kg are at the tipping point. In training he can produce a good w/kg test so he thinks all is well. After several days of hard racing though, I think that his w/kg has dropped enough that he is no longer able to stay with the front group. Most of us here, me included, keep referring to how he is a better one week racer than GT guy. Now that I am reflecting on that, IMO, the reason he does well at those event is because he hasn't gotten down to his GT weight. All of his good results have come when he is heavier. Even his wins on US roads have come when he isn't GT ready.
 
Re: Re:

Jancouver said:
damian13ster said:
Wow, looking at the above comment......good for him for deleting social media. People can be clueless and cruel.
Hope TJ gets out of the slump and figures out what's going on so that he is able to find his place in the peleton (wherver that might be).
Being in the situation he is in must suck
Just FYI, I'm not on twitter/fakebook and never harassed anybody with my opinion.

That being said, the head in the sand approach is a clear sign of his mental weakness as he is unwilling to face or hear any negative comments. So yes, he is a loser in my book.
Just because he's deleted his social media doesn't mean he's unwilling to face up to his issues, reading vile/unconstructive comments when you're already down can have a real negative effect which should be obvious to people. From the sounds that he's making this Giro performance has hit home and he knows he's doing something wrong but only time will tell if he's able to make the changes needed. I'm all for facing upto your problems and taking on board comments to help and fix your problems, constructive criticism is great but what exactly is constructive about calling someone a pathetic loser? That's just cheap and kicking someone when they're down.
 
Mar 14, 2009
3,436
0
0
Re: Re:

StryderHells said:
Jancouver said:
damian13ster said:
Wow, looking at the above comment......good for him for deleting social media. People can be clueless and cruel.
Hope TJ gets out of the slump and figures out what's going on so that he is able to find his place in the peleton (wherver that might be).
Being in the situation he is in must suck
Just FYI, I'm not on twitter/fakebook and never harassed anybody with my opinion.

That being said, the head in the sand approach is a clear sign of his mental weakness as he is unwilling to face or hear any negative comments. So yes, he is a loser in my book.
Just because he's deleted his social media doesn't mean he's unwilling to face up to his issues, reading vile/unconstructive comments when you're already down can have a real negative effect which should be obvious to people. From the sounds that he's making this Giro performance has hit home and he knows he's doing something wrong but only time will tell if he's able to make the changes needed. I'm all for facing upto your problems and taking on board comments to help and fix your problems, constructive criticism is great but what exactly is constructive about calling someone a pathetic loser? That's just cheap and kicking someone when they're down.
My position on him has been the same for at least two years. Just go back in this thread or read my cqgame posts before the season even started.

And yes, he is a loser and will never win another major race.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS