Tenerife

[Benotti69]

Because the highest peak on Tenerife is 4000 feet higher than Alpe d'huez?

Maybe they should be in South Amercia training then. Think how much a difference that would make training 8000 feet higher than Alpe D'Huez.

All BS, they go there to dope.

 

[ToreBear]

Yeah, I see Girona is no longer the centre for the Anglosaxons due to the new law and Fuentes has been locked up with the key thrown away and Contador did time for his positive.

Fuentes is not the subject of laws passed after his crimes. I don't know of any countries which could make what you did today illegal tomorrow, then charge you for this crime that didn't exist when you committed it.

All BS, they go there to dope.

No they don't.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

How can you prepare for Alpe D'Huez in Tenerife?

Ride up lots of hills and then ride up lots more. Simples. And better than freezing your b*llocks off in European ski resorts in the ski season.

 

[Benotti69]

Ride up lots of hills and then ride up lots more. Simples. And better than freezing your b*llocks off in European ski resorts in the ski season.

If it so good to ride at high altitudes why not higher, like the Andes? Because it is BS and they dope. See Kenayn runners who live and train at altitude and still dope.

 

[del1962]

If it so good to ride at high altitudes why not higher, like the Andes? Because it is BS and they dope. See Kenayn runners who live and train at altitude and still dope.

Altitude training was popular in athletics before the O2 vector doping era, you really seem one-dimensional on this

 

[Benotti69]

Altitude training was popular in athletics before the O2 vector doping era, you really seem one-dimensional on this

And during the o2 vector doping era it remained popular. I wonder why?

It is a myth that altitude training benefits athletes. 2 weeks gives no benefit. Need to live for months at altitude to get any benefit.

 

[del1962]

And during the o2 vector doping era it remained popular. I wonder why?

It is a myth that altitude training benefits athletes. 2 weeks gives no benefit. Need to live for months at altitude to get any benefit.

where do you get the figure that 2 weeks has no benefit

And even if it has no benefits at sea-level (though it does) where the bike race takes you over high aplpine passes then altitude training is highly beneficial

 

[veganrob]

where do you get the figure that 2 weeks has no benefit

And even if it has no benefits at sea-level (though it does) where the bike race takes you over high aplpine passes then altitude training is highly beneficial

If I am not mistaken, doing EPO while training at altitude really enhances the affect.
Please don't ask me for link as it is what I recall reading.

 

[Von Mises]

Does it mean that riders and teams who do not train at Tenerife do not dope?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yes, it does

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

If it so good to ride at high altitudes why not higher, like the Andes? Because it is BS and they dope. See Kenayn runners who live and train at altitude and still dope.

I never mentioned altitude. I mentioned hills that are easier to ride up repeatedly in the conditions that prevail in Tenerife than in an iced up continental Europe during the winter and spring.

If you ride up a 1500m ascent then unless you're Captain Nemo, you will, by necessity, end up training at altitude though.

There is a benefit from training at altitude, namely preparing for racing at high altitude, ie above 2000m up to circa 2700m in the GTs. This is a fundamentally different concept to training at altitude to improve sea-level performance.

All the above is unrelated to doping. Reliable weather and good climbing terrain are ideal for race preparation whether you're doping or not. As has been highlighted many times, Tenerife is an ideal venue (though not the only one) given its weather, ease of access, tourist infrastructure and tarmac quality.

 

[Benotti69]

Does it mean that riders and teams who do not train at Tenerife do not dope?

No just that they dont bother with the smoke screen.

 

[Coolair2970]

Maybe they should be in South Amercia training then. Think how much a difference that would make training 8000 feet higher than Alpe D'Huez.

All BS, they go there to dope.

The problem would be that the roads in very high altitude in south america are gravel, så the mechanic have to carry a lot of wheels for the ride

 

[hiero2]

No just that they dont bother with the smoke screen.

Folks, let's cut back on the snark levels, and increase the "tolerance for other viewpoints" and "general politeness" levels, ok? TIA!

And, in anticipation, no, not just Benotti - he's just the last in line.

 

[mikehammer67]

I dont see the training a pretty good. How can you prepare for Alpe D'Huez in Tenerife? Only reason to 'prepare' in Tenerife is doping.

Yeah I watched Il Giro. Most of the roads for the TdF are open. Now is the time to be in France training, but isn't is a criminal offence to dope in France, oops better nip over to Tenerife where as i said the teams have a system set up that allows them to get on with the darker side to their training.

albuquerque is an altitude spot famous for epo distribution
paula radcliffe was very fond of the place
same with kenya

 

[DirtyWorks]

where do you get the figure that 2 weeks has no benefit

Hmm. From this meta study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23502972

Training at higher altitudes, below 3000 meters, results in no statistically significant increase in oxygen carrying capabilities. Apparently there are no roads above 3000M in Tenerife. Krebs Cycle has a recent post summarizing it a bit more in this thread. Go back a day or two and you'll find it.

And even if it has no benefits at sea-level (though it does) where the bike race takes you over high aplpine passes then altitude training is highly beneficial

Well, wait.. Which is it? Just because the first argument fails, you've moved onto another as if the first didn't happen. This is kind of a catch-all claim that is safely true. It doesn't make your claims that the athletes are there for sunshine and climbing any more valid though.

While I agree the mild climate is an attractor, there's lots of places with mild climates athletes could go. It just so happens this one is far away from surprise testing for blood doping or go on an EPO cycle, leave the island ready to destroy the peloton, and never test positive.

 

[42x16ss]

Maybe they should be in South Amercia training then. Think how much a difference that would make training 8000 feet higher than Alpe D'Huez.

All BS, they go there to dope.

Then why do they even bother taking their bikes?

Also Di Luca, Santambrogio and co. managed to dope ok without even setting foot there

 

[42x16ss]

With how the season has gone so far weather wise, it makes no sense to prepare in Tenerife. Teams should be preparing the wet weather and warm clothing for races and ability to ride in the wet!

But nope it is the dope that leads them there.

So it's going to be snowing during the TdF? Cool! Would love to see the fair weather members of the peloton cope with that.

I know that this is a bit of chicken and egg but riders train there because of the good conditions and dope because they are training there. If it was only for pharmaceuticals wouldn't they go to somewhere like Ibiza? Yet no-one does, because there isn't a big a$$ mountain in the middle of it.

 

[42x16ss]

How can you prepare for Alpe D'Huez in Tenerife?

 

[thehog]

Then why do they even bother taking their bikes?

Also Di Luca, Santambrogio and co. managed to dope ok without even setting foot there

Yes but they got caught.

Maybe they should have gone.

DD was from a OC test.

 

[Krebs cycle]

Nope, all wrong.

One of the things I've learned from this forum is that spring training must be done in the snow, on frozen climbs, risking black ice, rain, mud etc. Not somewhere with great weather, good climbs and roads, cheap hotels - that would be cheating.

Anything else is less than transparent. Apparently doping doctors and products are only available in one place in Europe - Freiburg? Red herring. Fuentes' Madrid clinic? Smokescreen. Ferrari's campervan? Actually a houseboat.

You can only trust pro's that stick to the tried and true old school winter training methods. After all they were good enough Anquetil, Coppi, Merckx, Bartali, Bobet, Bahamontes etc and they were all squeaky clean

Ah the good old days! Think of the hard men of yesteryear when you hear the rain on the roof at 5am, it's windy and close to freezing outside and the devil in your ear tells you to stay in your warm cosy bed.

Certainly puts hairs on your chest mentally, but riding in the cold is nowhere near as tough physically as training in 30+ degC heat.

 

[131313]

This whole thing is so incredibly tiresome. Dope goes there because it's a good place to train, not the other way around. There are very, very few places in Europe where you can stay at altitude but train both near sea level and on long, high altitude climbs. Doing so in light traffic is another big bonus. Regardless of what folks say, that's pretty much the ideal situation for training. Comments that you "can't train for "L'Alpe" or whatever are just nonsensical.

When did it become so hard to dope that you had to go to some remote location to do it? I mean, San Jose, Austin, Greenville...these aren't far, out of the way places. The Netherlands seem pretty good. Sorry, but assuming someone dopes just based on training location is just stupid, or at least intellectually lazy.

 

[thehog]

This whole thing is so incredibly tiresome. Dope goes there because it's a good place to train, not the other way around. There are very, very few places in Europe where you can stay at altitude but train both near sea level and on long, high altitude climbs. Doing so in light traffic is another big bonus. Regardless of what folks say, that's pretty much the ideal situation for training. Comments that you "can't train for "L'Alpe" or whatever are just nonsensical.

When did it become so hard to dope that you had to go to some remote location to do it? I mean, San Jose, Austin, Greenville...these aren't far, out of the way places. The Netherlands seem pretty good. Sorry, but assuming someone dopes just based on training location is just stupid, or at least intellectually lazy.

This I agree with.

Like Amsterdam for hookers and Ibiza for disco biscuits.

The dealers will follow their market.

 

[Benotti69]

This whole thing is so incredibly tiresome. Dope goes there because it's a good place to train, not the other way around. There are very, very few places in Europe where you can stay at altitude but train both near sea level and on long, high altitude climbs. Doing so in light traffic is another big bonus. Regardless of what folks say, that's pretty much the ideal situation for training. Comments that you "can't train for "L'Alpe" or whatever are just nonsensical.

When did it become so hard to dope that you had to go to some remote location to do it? I mean, San Jose, Austin, Greenville...these aren't far, out of the way places. The Netherlands seem pretty good. Sorry, but assuming someone dopes just based on training location is just stupid, or at least intellectually lazy.

The argument I have been making is based on set up and the smoke screen of altitute training otherwise why bother being there in June. The High passes in Europe are not full of traffic at this time of year. There is a tried and tested setup to blood dope in Tenerife.

Plenty dope elsewhere, but someone is making money in Tenerife by teams going there, whether it is the hotels who are 'onside', the cops, someone in the airport, whoever it is it keeps the teams going there to 'prepare' and Teams feel more secure there to 'prepare'.

 

[Ripper]

This whole thing is so incredibly tiresome. Dope goes there because it's a good place to train, not the other way around. There are very, very few places in Europe where you can stay at altitude but train both near sea level and on long, high altitude climbs. Doing so in light traffic is another big bonus. Regardless of what folks say, that's pretty much the ideal situation for training. Comments that you "can't train for "L'Alpe" or whatever are just nonsensical.

When did it become so hard to dope that you had to go to some remote location to do it? I mean, San Jose, Austin, Greenville...these aren't far, out of the way places. The Netherlands seem pretty good. Sorry, but assuming someone dopes just based on training location is just stupid, or at least intellectually lazy.

This pretty much sums it up. I'm sure the location has other perks as well, but one could "do the dope" anywhere.

One caveat - if you're gonna dope, you need to do the altitude training. Otherwise, it's a bit more challenging to explain some of the BP scores