Tennis is ridiculous

[Parera]

So much of this thread is blatant idiocy and/or ignorance of the game of tennis. Accusing that Djokovic wasn't good a few years ago about takes the cake for me; if you actually watched tennis he was always arguably the most talented player on the court but the dude was a massive head case; Federer was the same way when he was a new pro. But, like so many athletes before him, he stop beating himself in the course of a match and is now a dominant player. Not every human accomplishment can be attributed to pharmaceuticals, you know.

Oh wait, not according to the mouth breathing troglodytes on this forum. Get a life.

 

[doolols]

Not every human accomplishment can be attributed to pharmaceuticals, you know.

Indeed not. But when you look at the stats - semi-final, 5 sets, high temperatures, late at night, nearly 5 hours of top-flight tennis; and then less than 2 days later, he comes out to play 5 sets, high temperatures, late at night, nearly 6 hours of top-flight tennis. All without chemical help?

Oh wait, not according to the mouth breathing troglodytes on this forum. Get a life.

That's funny. And I have a life, thank you.

 

[hrotha]

Not every human accomplishment can be attributed to pharmaceuticals, you know.

No, but overnight leaps in athletic prowess usually can.

 

[Sciocco]

Indeed not. But when you look at the stats - semi-final, 5 sets, high temperatures, late at night, nearly 5 hours of top-flight tennis; and then less than 2 days later, he comes out to play 5 sets, high temperatures, late at night, nearly 6 hours of top-flight tennis. All without chemical help?

Everything is down to a science nowadays, players are able to recover better. The top flight guys have perfected sleep-wake schedules, eat extremely well, know the perfect stretches and workouts.

Back in the 70's and 80's players probably lazed around and ate pizza all day.

In the past it was not possible, but now it is. Also, when Djoko starts hurting physically he weathers it by making games short when possible until his body is ready to go again. As a sports fan you should know about waves of energy, momentum, and adrenaline.

Not to mention all the top players know that the other top players are physically fit to the extreme and so they prepare for that by becoming truly insane in making themselves as fit as possible. Yesterdays game was shorter rallies (serve and volley), today's game is long, baseline rallies for the top guys, so they know how much they need to prepare.

The thing about Djoko doing so much better because of his diet, nah, maybe a little. It is ALL confidence, for he has been knocking on the door for a while.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Like one Lance Armstrong, Djokovic has found the Fountain of Excellence.

 

[hrotha]

Not to mention all the top players know that the other top players are physically fit to the extreme and so they prepare for that by becoming truly insane in making themselves as fit as possible.

You got a bit carried away and forgot you're supposed to be arguing that doping isn't that prevalent or important in tennis.

 

[Sciocco]

You got a bit carried away and forgot you're supposed to be arguing that doping isn't that prevalent or important in tennis.

Yea, probably got a little carried away.

I do think doping is prevalent in tennis, just not the top guys. All you hear about is how they spent every moment from the last tournament preparing for the next.

Women's game on the other hand, with Serena... and some others I suppose.

 

[The Hitch]

Oh wait, not according to the mouth breathing troglodytes on this forum. Get a life.

What a well reasoned well written argument.

Accusing that Djokovic wasn't good a few years ago about takes the cake for me; if you actually watched tennis he was always arguably the most talented player on the court but the dude was a massive head case; .

The funny thing is that Djokovic himself thinks there has been a huge transformation, physically.

Because team Djokovic keeps going on about the importance of the new diet. The diet is why he is so much better they say.

So are your accusations and insults directed at them too?

BTW he had the poorest stamina in the game. Retired from like 4 gs's in the space of 2 years, usually after winning a 5 setter he was done.

Now hes outlasting Nadal.

 

[Andynonomous]

I played tennis for more than 10 years (took lessons, practised with a ball machine, played many matches, ...). What you saw at the 2012 Australian open men's final is not possible without blood doping.

The players today use "polyester" strings. These are "dead" (no "spring")strings that generate no speed into the ball. All of the speed must now be generated by the player's swing (they must swing MUCH harder today than just 10 years ago).

If you watch a slow motion swing by Nadal or Djokovic at this years Australian open, and compare it to Sampras, or Agassi of just 10 years ago, you will see a dramatic increase in exertion. This extra exertion goes into EVERY SHOT for a whole match, yet the players today have less performance degradation (due to fatigue) over a long 5 set match than they did 10 years ago.

I guess tennis players have "evolved" in the last 10 years about as much as cyclists did during the introduction of EPO. It's NOT nutrition, training techniques, or anything else. These things will only give a marginal improvement in performance. The physical performance increase in tennis in the last 10 years has been dramatic, and the tennis authorities, and tennis sports media, are extatic about it.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

What a well reasoned well written argument.

The funny thing is that Djokovic himself thinks there has been a huge transformation, physically.

Because team Djokovic keeps going on about the importance of the new diet. The diet is why he is so much better they say.

So are your accusations and insults directed at them too?

BTW he had the poorest stamina in the game. Retired from like 4 gs's in the space of 2 years, usually after winning a 5 setter he was done.

Now hes outlasting Nadal.

Not that I disagree with Djokovic having improved his fitness a great deal, but in what way is he outlasting Nadal? Did he win because Nadal gassed? No, and Nadal covers more ground in this match up because Djokovic usually dictates.

 

[sniper]

I played tennis for more than 10 years (took lessons, practised with a ball machine, played many matches, ...). What you saw at the 2012 Australian open men's final is not possible without blood doping.

The players today use "polyester" strings. These are "dead" (no "spring")strings that generate no speed into the ball. All of the speed must now be generated by the player's swing (they must swing MUCH harder today than just 10 years ago).

If you watch a slow motion swing by Nadal or Djokovic at this years Australian open, and compare it to Sampras, or Agassi of just 10 years ago, you will see a dramatic increase in exertion. This extra exertion goes into EVERY SHOT for a whole match, yet the players today have less performance degradation (due to fatigue) over a long 5 set match than they did 10 years ago.

I guess tennis players have "evolved" in the last 10 years about as much as cyclists did during the introduction of EPO. It's NOT nutrition, training techniques, or anything else. These things will only give a marginal improvement in performance. The physical performance increase in tennis in the last 10 years has been dramatic, and the tennis authorities, and tennis sports media, are extatic about it.

did you see the Djoker eat something and covering it up behind his towel? The footage was posted here somewhere. What do you make of that? I've never seen anything like it in tennis, as far as I recall.

 

[blackcat]

Everything is down to a science nowadays, players are able to recover better. The top flight guys have perfected sleep-wake schedules, eat extremely well, know the perfect stretches and workouts.

Back in the 70's and 80's players probably lazed around and ate pizza all day.

In the past it was not possible, but now it is. Also, when Djoko starts hurting physically he weathers it by making games short when possible until his body is ready to go again. As a sports fan you should know about waves of energy, momentum, and adrenaline.

Not to mention all the top players know that the other top players are physically fit to the extreme and so they prepare for that by becoming truly insane in making themselves as fit as possible. Yesterdays game was shorter rallies (serve and volley), today's game is long, baseline rallies for the top guys, so they know how much they need to prepare.

The thing about Djoko doing so much better because of his diet, nah, maybe a little. It is ALL confidence, for he has been knocking on the door for a while.

this is the inversion of Rummy, as Zizek says, the unknown knowns. That is, the public will deny the truth, to stay in a comfortable unthreatening place. It is not athlete 1 v athlete 2. It is all.

Rafa grows muscles on muscles, the year of drug controversy in homeland, he comes in about 7kg down to Aus Open, and is but half the player.

then we have other players, with 5 oclock shadows at 6am. And we have sharper brow ridges, and longer jaws. All in the jpegs.

Too easy, do a GIS for the proof. Or we think man in 2008 runs 9.6 in the 100 clean. Let J Savelesku take it over from here...

 

[blackcat]

You got a bit carried away and forgot you're supposed to be arguing that doping isn't that prevalent or important in tennis.

nor cadence.

 

[Sciocco]

this is the inversion of Rummy, as Zizek says, the unknown knowns. That is, the public will deny the truth, to stay in a comfortable unthreatening place. It is not athlete 1 v athlete 2. It is all.

Rafa grows muscles on muscles, the year of drug controversy in homeland, he comes in about 7kg down to Aus Open, and is but half the player.

then we have other players, with 5 oclock shadows at 6am. And we have sharper brow ridges, and longer jaws. All in the jpegs.

Too easy, do a GIS for the proof. Or we think man in 2008 runs 9.6 in the 100 clean. Let J Savelesku take it over from here...

I understood maybe half of this.

 

[happychappy]

Like one Lance Armstrong, Djokovic has found the Fountain of Excellence.

Lazerlike focus on the ball? He always keeps his favorite tennis bat in his suitcase of courage.

 

[ChrisE]

The players today use "polyester" strings. These are "dead" (no "spring")strings that generate no speed into the ball. All of the speed must now be generated by the player's swing (they must swing MUCH harder today than just 10 years ago).

Is this mandated by the rules?

 

[Andynonomous]

Is this mandated by the rules?

No. It's by choice.

With polyester strings, you can "swing for the fences", and if you put enough spin on the ball, it will almost always "drop in" (Nadal's forehand is not possible without polyester, most shots would fly long). MUCH less skill is involved when using polyester strings, and more brute force is needed. The points take more shots to win (since it is easier to keep the ball in play), and each shot takes more energy (since the strings are "dead"), so you have an ideal environment where blood doping would tempt the players.

This makes tennis much more of a physical game, and less of a skill game. This "evolution" has all happened in the last 10 years.

If polyester strings were banned (or anything with similar characterists - ie. "dead" strings), some of the top ranked players, on both the mens and womens tours would be out of the top 10 (since many of them have very physical games, and have low levels of skill).

 

[Grand Tourist]

lol.

Good video.

It looks like hes hiding something but then again I would not expect players do dope out in the open in front of millions of tv viewers.

Its something thats done behind closed those.




What are you saying?

Alot of people have issues with eating in public & my guess is Djokovic is one of them.

I think tennis have a big problem. Fitness / training / diet etc only takes you so far. The intensity those 2 were able to sustain for nearly 6 hours looked really suspect.

 

[Sciocco]

No. It's by choice.

With polyester strings, you can "swing for the fences", and if you put enough spin on the ball, it will almost always "drop in" (Nadal's forehand is not possible without polyester, most shots would fly long). MUCH less skill is involved when using polyester strings, and more brute force is needed. The points take more shots to win (since it is easier to keep the ball in play), and each shot takes more energy (since the strings are "dead"), so you have an ideal environment where blood doping would tempt the players.

This makes tennis much more of a physical game, and less of a skill game. This "evolution" has all happened in the last 10 years.

If polyester strings were banned (or anything with similar characterists - ie. "dead" strings), some of the top ranked players, on both the mens and womens tours would be out of the top 10 (since many of them have very physical games, and have low levels of skill).

If you watch Djoko play, at this point I am assuming you do not, you'll notice he'll hit a lot of balls with just a flick of his wrist, using the speed from his opponents shot. The analysts talk about it over and over and over.

How do you define skill? Does everybody need to play serve and volley to have "skill?" Of course they are more physical, you can use a physical strategy to overcome a serve and volley-er.

 

[Parera]

No. It's by choice.

With polyester strings, you can "swing for the fences", and if you put enough spin on the ball, it will almost always "drop in" (Nadal's forehand is not possible without polyester, most shots would fly long). MUCH less skill is involved when using polyester strings, and more brute force is needed. The points take more shots to win (since it is easier to keep the ball in play), and each shot takes more energy (since the strings are "dead"), so you have an ideal environment where blood doping would tempt the players.

This makes tennis much more of a physical game, and less of a skill game. This "evolution" has all happened in the last 10 years.

If polyester strings were banned (or anything with similar characterists - ie. "dead" strings), some of the top ranked players, on both the mens and womens tours would be out of the top 10 (since many of them have very physical games, and have low levels of skill).

If you don't think Federer/Nadal/Djokovic are skilled at what they do you're just about the dumbest person on this forum.

edit: some of you +++ should go down to a club and watch junior tennis. Kids absolutely crush the ball today; swing mechanics have changed dramatically in the past 15 years. I've been embarrassed by teenage girls playing tennis; they hit the ball with more power and precision than I ever could. No shame in that, they were just taught better. Not everything in life is simply because of dope.

 

[Sciocco]

If you don't think Federer/Nadal/Djokovic are skilled at what they do you're just about the dumbest person on this forum.

Absolutely agree.

 

[ChrisE]

Absolutely agree.

I agree that what Andy says may be BS but I want to learn more. It caught me off guard that players en mass want a string that gives them less velocity.

Do all players use these polyester strings?

 

[Sciocco]

I agree that what Andy says may be BS but I want to learn more. It caught me off guard that players en mass want a string that gives them less velocity.

Do all players use these polyester strings?

The top 3 use these racquets:

Djoker - http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_YOUTEK_IG_Speed_18x20/descpageRCHEAD-HS18.html?from=atp

Rafa -http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babolat_AeroPro_Drive_GT/descpageRCBAB-BAPDGT.html?from=atp

Federer - http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wilson_BLX_Pro_Staff_SixOne_90/descpageRCWILSON-WPS90.html?from=atp

On ATP's Tennis Warehouse:

Polyester strings have rapidly gained popularity on the pro tour. Offering excellent durability and a distinct feel, polyester strings are a good fit for hard hitting, chronic string breakers. http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/StringCats.html

On the same website they have a profile of Djoker's gear:http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/player.html?CCODE=NDJOKOVIC

On that page the string he uses is listed: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Tecnifibre_X-One_Biphase_17_String_/descpageACTFUSA-X117.html

The description of his string reads: "A premium multifilament string, X-One BiPhase delivers superb comfort and feel and a crisp response. A good choice for players seeking an arm-friendly string without sacrificing power. Provides good tension maintenance too. About as gut-like as synthetics get. Offers a livelier feel, but with slightly less durability compared to the 16-gauge version and is a great choice to liven up a tight string pattern." (Important part bolded).

Nadal's string (as well as Roddick and Tsonga's): http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babolat_RPM_Blast_16_String_/descpageACBAB-BRPMB16.html

The description of this one does include mentioning it is polyester string.

Federer apparently uses: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wilson_Champions_Choice_Hybrid_16_String/descpageACWILSON-WCC16.html

A hybrid of polyester and natural gut.

Also uses: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wilson_Natural_Gut_16_String/descpageACWILSON-WNAT16.html

Just natural gut.

And finally: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Luxilon_Big_Banger_ALU_Power_Rough_16L_String/descpageACWILSON-ALUPR16.html

Just polyester.

I guess Federer likes choices. Is there a reason to check more than top 3?



With all the links, I am sorry if I messed any up, will correct if necessary.

On a side note, I found some nice glasses on this website that I may consider buying. One can never have enough plinking glasses.

 

[sniper]

Absolutely agree.

i don'T agree.
there clearly are degrees of skill. if you take the top three, rafa's on the left, djoker in themiddle, and federer on the far right hand side of an imaginary skill-continuum.
that's not saying rafa and or djoker are unskilled.
that's merely saying they are less skilled than some others.

 

[Havetts]

Huge differences in style too, Federer depends on his skill. Nadal and Djokovic depend on their ability to keep hitting from baseline to baseline, to keep running and hitting those balls with enormous power - so their endurance.

Now which would be more influenced by steroid/dope (ab)use? Skill or Endurance?