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Tennis

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Mar 13, 2009
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Re: Re:

robow7 said:
blackcat said:
robow7 said:
sniper said:
Squire said:
Borg emerged as one of the fittest players ever in a period when Sweden was pioneering research on blood doping.
Coincidence? Maybe.
In any case, this omerta talk is such a giveaway.

Borg was not just fit with a standing heart rate of 45, he was and maybe still is one of the fastest individuals to ever step on a tennis court. We still can't manufacturer that but the Swedes did put together a nice group of top players at that time.

but apart from the Australians, who else played the sport with a national intensity and fervour. The East was yet to enter. South America may have had Vitas and Nastase, but they were yet to enter en mass.

so the sample pool was so minute compared to today


Nastase was from Romania and there were several eastern block players like Jan Kodes and Tiriac before him but the French and the Italians have always been integral to the sport.

point stands. small pool was small.

got exponentially greater. small pool is big pool
 
Oct 16, 2010
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his press conference where he explained his withdrawal was rather unconvincing.
There wasn't any detail about the wrist injury. He pulled some uncomfortable faces. And that was it.

I'm still sceptical about the "silent ban" thing, because I don't quite understand the rationale behind it (I mean, why not sweep it under the rug entirely), but you look at this case and you just have to wonder.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

sniper said:
his press conference where he explained his withdrawal was rather unconvincing.
There wasn't any detail about the wrist injury. He pulled some uncomfortable faces. And that was it.

I'm still sceptical about the "silent ban" thing, because I don't quite understand the rationale behind it (I mean, why not sweep it under the rug entirely), but you look at this case and you just have to wonder.

Silent Ban means Nike are happy, they prolly negotiate an exit with Rafa, and no one has to come out with weasel worded statements if the positive is made public innit!
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Here's my tip as to who will win RG this year

5568.jpg
 
Re:

SeriousSam said:
Here's my tip as to who will win RG this year

5568.jpg


I hope Wawrinka beats Murray and then disappoints Djokovic in the final again. Don't sleep on Thiem, but I Djokovic has had a nice path to the semis thus far. Berdych just isn't mentally tough enough and his game is to stale to really bother Djokovic. I was hoping against hope today, but it wasn't gonna happen. Thiem has a nice game (though not the power of Berdych) and should play Djokovic tough, but no more than 4, I don't think.
 
Re:

SeriousSam said:
It still doesn't make sense. Who, with the power to prevent under the rug sweeping, insists on a silent ban but prevents a public ban? And why?

I struggle with the concept of the real "silent ban" (i.e. deliberately failing to publicly disclose that an athlete's been found guilty of an ADRV, and is not allowed to compete for a period of time).

When it comes to a star athlete who's found guilty of an ADRV, I can see how the ITF, and it's 2 tours, might be incentivized to keep things quiet... You're (sort-of) enforcing the rules, and (weakly) deterring the athlete from doping again by depriving them of points and prize money, but you avoid the negative publicity that harms the sport's bottom line (revenue), and the athlete gets to protect their reputation.

The problem is, as I've said before, WADA know about AAFs, and can challenge sports in the CAS if they feel that they were not handled appropriately. WADA don't benefit from such cover-ups, unless there is some depressingly serious corruption going on. This stretches even my skeptical imagination.

If tennis and other sports want to protect their cash cows, there are easier and more effective ways to do it than "silent bans". You can just not test the players when it counts, or find ways to quietly tip the off when the tests are coming.
 
Lets see if Kiki can beat Mike Tyson today.
She has a calf injury but she should be ok as she is assisted by Errol Esajas.
http://www.nrc.nl/next/2013/07/22/martina-is-alleen-bezig-met-gewoon-hard-lopen-1273863

Esajas works with Peter Vergouwen who was involved with many athletes, for example Ellen van Langen. Vergouwen has also got a close relationship with NOC NSF.
NOC NSF was allready discussed in this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30733

Yelena Isinbayeva should add The Netherlands to the list of countries that are having an organised doping program.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re:

To add to arcus' post, if we are to consider "silent bans" in tennis as a real thing (and sure, why not, we know Agassi's case), an additional question wrt the mens game is: why so often Nadal? Are they targeting him for some reason? Maybe they think he's too obvious? Maybe he's one of the few tennis players who's really tripping all sorts of wires? What about Murray, Ferrer, Berdych, Fed, Djoker, etc.

Tienus said:
Lets see if Kiki can beat Mike Tyson today.
She has a calf injury but she should be ok as she is assisted by Errol Esajas.
http://www.nrc.nl/next/2013/07/22/martina-is-alleen-bezig-met-gewoon-hard-lopen-1273863

Esajas works with Peter Vergouwen who was involved with many athletes, for example Ellen van Langen. Vergouwen has also got a close relationship with NOC NSF.
NOC NSF was allready discussed in this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30733

Yelena Isinbayeva should add The Netherlands to the list of countries that are having an organised doping program.
interesting.

with tennis, it's pretty clear that nearly every surprise result, or mid-season transformation, is related to doping (and in some cases matchfixing).

on a side, i do wonder: why do countries with organized doping (Spain in the 90s; Britain 2000s, Netherlands now) suck so hard at playing soccer?
Does the oranized doping apply only to olympic disciplines?
 
Sep 10, 2013
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Re: Re:

sniper said:
To add to arcus' post, if we are to consider "silent bans" in tennis as a real thing (and sure, why not, we know Agassi's case), an additional question wrt the mens game is: why so often Nadal? Are they targeting him for some reason? Maybe they think he's too obvious? Maybe he's one of the few tennis players who's really tripping all sorts of wires? What about Murray, Ferrer, Berdych, Fed, Djoker, etc.

Tienus said:
Lets see if Kiki can beat Mike Tyson today.
She has a calf injury but she should be ok as she is assisted by Errol Esajas.
http://www.nrc.nl/next/2013/07/22/martina-is-alleen-bezig-met-gewoon-hard-lopen-1273863

Esajas works with Peter Vergouwen who was involved with many athletes, for example Ellen van Langen. Vergouwen has also got a close relationship with NOC NSF.
NOC NSF was allready discussed in this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30733

Yelena Isinbayeva should add The Netherlands to the list of countries that are having an organised doping program.
interesting.

with tennis, it's pretty clear that nearly every surprise result, or mid-season transformation, is related to doping (and in some cases matchfixing).

on a side, i do wonder: why do countries with organized doping (Spain in the 90s; Britain 2000s, Netherlands now) suck so hard at playing soccer?
Does the oranized doping apply only to olympic disciplines?

Really? Of those you list only England (Britain doesn't compete as a nation) can be said to suck at soccer. The Dutch were second and third respectively at the last two Worlds as well as being past Euro winners. They are always considered one of the serious teams to beat. Spain won the world cup in 2010 (beating Netherlands) and are current Euro champions, having won the last two tournaments.

I think your assertion is about as accurate as the one stating there are organised doping programs - not
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Spain sucked at soccer in the 90s, which is when they had an organized (Olympic) doping effort going on.
Meanwhile, Spain became the best soccer nation in the world, but only after Operacion Puerto, which arguably marked the beginning of the end of Spain's massive organized (Olympic) doping efforts.
Just saying, at least for Spain there seems to be no clear correlation between being good at soccer and organized (Olympic) doping programs.
Same for the Netherlands. They are at present (re)gaining ground in certain (Olympic) disciplines (cycling, athletics, tennis), but meanwhile failed to qualify for the EC soccer. So again, there seems to be no clear correlation.
Britain is even more obvious. Doping for the Olympics has been rampant, and successful, but in soccer they still can't proceed beyond the quarters of a major tournament.
 
why do countries with organized doping (Spain in the 90s; Britain 2000s, Netherlands now) suck so hard at playing soccer?
I enjoy reading your posts espescially after you have been digging the internet and therefore suspect you realize that many more countries have organized doping in place.

Lets talk about Belgium who had Renno Roelandt as vice chairman of the Belgium Olympic comittee. He was a sports doctor but also member of the anti doping and WADA. Two athletes accuse him of recomending them to use doping, he denied but one of them actually recorded the conversation.

Here is an article from 2002 where roelandt talks about his relationship with Van de Hoogenband from the NOC NSF. Tennis is specifically mentioned as the Dutch can learn from the Belgium knowledge. In 2003 Verkerk did suddenly well in RG.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/archief/-belgie-en-nederland-moeten-krachten-bundelen~a621483/
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re:

Tienus said:
why do countries with organized doping (Spain in the 90s; Britain 2000s, Netherlands now) suck so hard at playing soccer?
I enjoy reading your posts espescially after you have been digging the internet and therefore suspect you realize that many more countries have organized doping in place.
thanks.
and oh yeah, i don't doubt many (if not most) self-respecting countries have some form of organized doping in place. My question was too simplistically formulated. I'm under no illusion that only those three countries have an organized program. Just that those three countries allowed me to make something of a point about the apparent lack of a correlation between (a) perceived organized doping at a national olympic level and (b) national team having success in soccer.

Lets talk about Belgium who had Renno Roelandt as vice chairman of the Belgium Olympic comittee. He was a sports doctor but also member of the anti doping and WADA. Two athletes accuse him of recomending them to use doping, he denied but one of them actually recorded the conversation.

Here is an article from 2002 where roelandt talks about his relationship with Van de Hoogenband from the NOC NSF. Tennis is specifically mentioned as the Dutch can learn from the Belgium knowledge. In 2003 Verkerk did suddenly well in RG.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/archief/-belgie-en-nederland-moeten-krachten-bundelen~a621483/
most interesting.
Funny you should mention Verkerk. Came out. of. the. friggin. blue. And...whoosh...like that, he was gone again. As it happens, I used to train on courts next to him in Alphen a/d Rijn. At the time there were other players of his age at our club who were (much) more talented than him, but he was the one who ended up having international success (albeit shortlived). Very dodgy indeed, and his game was all about his heavy serve and some hard hitting. (And sure, he got lucky, too, in 2003, iirc)

Anyway, salient stuff about Roelandt. It itches knowing that all these frauds will get away with it.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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on a side, when the camera closes in, you see both Muguruza and Williams have quite a bit of acne.
for Williams at her age that's more suspicious than Muguruza of course.

Now Muguruza against Stosur, what a doping fest this is.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re:

Tienus said:
...
Here is an article from 2002 where roelandt talks about his relationship with Van de Hoogenband from the NOC NSF. Tennis is specifically mentioned as the Dutch can learn from the Belgium knowledge. In 2003 Verkerk did suddenly well in RG.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/archief/-belgie-en-nederland-moeten-krachten-bundelen~a621483/
That interview screams organized doping. No kidding.
And there's indeed the link with PSV/Hoogenband which you pointed at earlier. On that note: Eindhoven was also mentioned as a hotbed for early EPO use in the Netherlands (see "first epo users" thread).

Interesting to note that they are still using the same "names for dope and (organized) doping" as they did back in the seventies and eighties.
"we looked at models in other countries"
"they have a lot of knowledge of biomechanics"
"Ik went there [to Eindhoven], as a teacher in sports medicine"
And more.
Incredible how much that interview sounds like those interviews i've been reading with Gideon Ariel and Irving Dardik from the OTCs that emerged in the US in the late 70s.
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
To add to arcus' post, if we are to consider "silent bans" in tennis as a real thing (and sure, why not, we know Agassi's case), an additional question wrt the mens game is: why so often Nadal? Are they targeting him for some reason? Maybe they think he's too obvious? Maybe he's one of the few tennis players who's really tripping all sorts of wires? What about Murray, Ferrer, Berdych, Fed, Djoker, etc.

Tienus said:
Lets see if Kiki can beat Mike Tyson today.
She has a calf injury but she should be ok as she is assisted by Errol Esajas.
http://www.nrc.nl/next/2013/07/22/martina-is-alleen-bezig-met-gewoon-hard-lopen-1273863

Esajas works with Peter Vergouwen who was involved with many athletes, for example Ellen van Langen. Vergouwen has also got a close relationship with NOC NSF.
NOC NSF was allready discussed in this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30733

Yelena Isinbayeva should add The Netherlands to the list of countries that are having an organised doping program.
interesting.

with tennis, it's pretty clear that nearly every surprise result, or mid-season transformation, is related to doping (and in some cases matchfixing).

on a side, i do wonder: why do countries with organized doping (Spain in the 90s; Britain 2000s, Netherlands now) suck so hard at playing soccer?
Does the oranized doping apply only to olympic disciplines?

I suspect that silent bans are a real thing, but the assumption that every time Nadal is "injured" he has a silent ban is wrong. The more likely scenario is that he has juiced to the limit and his joints can't take the strain and he really is injured.

As far as football is concerned the reason England don't perform at an international level is the tiny proportion of English players playing in the major leagues (no-one in foreign leagues and a minority in the EPL) giving a tiny base for the national team to be chosen from.

The more interesting question is why English clubs have gone from bossing the Champions League to also runs in short order, the money hasn't dried up (far from it) and I can't believe that they have grown scruples. Not keeping up with new developments?
 
Sep 10, 2013
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Re:

sniper said:
Spain sucked at soccer in the 90s, which is when they had an organized (Olympic) doping effort going on.
Meanwhile, Spain became the best soccer nation in the world, but only after Operacion Puerto, which arguably marked the beginning of the end of Spain's massive organized (Olympic) doping efforts.
Just saying, at least for Spain there seems to be no clear correlation between being good at soccer and organized (Olympic) doping programs.
Same for the Netherlands. They are at present (re)gaining ground in certain (Olympic) disciplines (cycling, athletics, tennis), but meanwhile failed to qualify for the EC soccer. So again, there seems to be no clear correlation.
Britain is even more obvious. Doping for the Olympics has been rampant, and successful, but in soccer they still can't proceed beyond the quarters of a major tournament.

At least live up to your name and be accurate. Netherlands have been 2nd and 3rd in the last two world cups, failing to qualify for the Euros once hardly counts as 'sucking'. Spain have always been relaible qualifiers and reached the quarters in the 90's. again hardly sucking then or now. Any serious soccer pundit would consider Netherlands and Spain as teams to be a serious challenge to overcome in any competition.

Again, Britain doesn't play soccer internationally, England and Scotland will have nothing to do with each other so they will always suck at it. You can take that as a given over decades irrespective of what is happening in other sports.

I'll leave the rampant doping jibe. It's not worthy of reply
 

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