Tennis

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

So, who is going to become Chris Horner of tennis?

Didn't we see one today?

Come one, there's a clear difference between Horner and Federer.

 

[The Hitch]

re fed being "a shadow of his former self", didn't he just beat wawrinka in the semi?
Isn't wawrinka the guy who won the last grand slam (also on hard court) and who has blown Djokovic away in 2 gs finals?

 

[DanielSong39]

Re:

re fed being "a shadow of his former self", didn't he just beat wawrinka in the semi?
Isn't wawrinka the guy who won the last grand slam (also on hard court) and who has blown Djokovic away in 2 gs finals?

Well, Federer did go 274-15 from 2004-2006 with 8 Grand Slams. People were already saying that he was on the decline in 2007, after a 68-9 season in which he won 3 more Slams. It's all relative.

 

[DanielSong39]

But good point, Federer not only beat Wawrinka in the semis, but Berdych in the 3rd round and Nishikori in the 4th round!

 

[beowulf]

I will be very surprised if Federer ever wins another major. Nadal probably has another French Open in him if he can stay fit.

The Australian Open has always been a bit of a strange tournament because it comes at the start of the season after a long winter break. This means most players have had time to recharge the batteries and prepare without any injury worries. It is also the perfect tournament for older players, because they are less worn out from the rigors of the tour. If an old player is going to win a major then it is definitely going to be the Australian Open. Agassi's last three grand slams all came at the Australian if memory serves me correctly.

I am certain both Federer and Nadal are doping, along with Serena, but let us not forget that they are very good tennis players with or without the doping. I also think (especially in the women's game) there are not that many good tennis players. The game certainly favours older tennis players for a variety of reasons, but mostly because of the emphasis on power and the physicality of the game. There was a brilliant three part blog piece on this topic, which explained the reasons why tennis players are getting older, but I cannot find it.

 

[robow7]

It's not just amazing that they can endure a tough 5 setter, and then bounce back so quickly and endure another 5 setter or in Fed's case, three 5 setters along with a straight set win within a week, but that they're doing it at this age. We all know if you've been there that as one ages, you can't recoup as fast.

 

[the delgados]

Re:

It's not just amazing that they can endure a tough 5 setter, and then bounce back so quickly and endure another 5 setter or in Fed's case, three 5 setters along with a straight set win within a week, but that they're doing it at this age. We all know if you've been there that as one ages, you can't recoup as fast.

I've read a lot of your comments on this thread, and it's obvious that you know a lot about the sport. I don't, so here goes my question.
Players are on the juice. We all get it.
This might be a dumb question, but assuming everyone is on the gear, why don't younger players like Dmitrov or Raonic beat the likes of Rafa?
I'm far from an expert at tennis, but I don't see a huge difference between, say, Rafa and Raonic in terms of style of play.
Federer is like a ballerina on a tennis court and is amazing to watch. Nadal, on the other hand is a bum-sniffing brute. Is Nadal better than Milos, or are they the same in terms of talent?

 

[Ferminal]

Raonic doesn't have much other than his serve to separate him from the rest of the top10 (Nadal was able to get on top of his serve). Rafa is the best defensive groundstroke player "ever" as well as being able to pull off his fair share of ridiculous winners and does ok to compensate for a weakish serve with variety and accuracy. It's not just the power and endurance either, he is outstanding technically, like football though technical ability and power are a function of endurance (power a function of other things also...).

I actually thought Federer and Nadal both look to have lost a bit of mass (Federer more so) which you would expect to begin around their age, maybe the endogenous decline has been accelerated also. I think both might have another sniff at a title if they maintain health and fitness and if the other big two are past their peak. Maybe an unlikely combination of events.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

But good point, Federer not only beat Wawrinka in the semis, but Berdych in the 3rd round and Nishikori in the 4th round!

lol yeah.

So we have a 35 year old guy absolutely steamroll through the world number 10, then the world number 5, then beat the world number 3 followed by the world number 9. Every single one of these has been in a GS final and 2 have won multiple gs. In fact 2 of them have won this very GS, and one is the most recent GS champion.

But he was just lucky because of an easy schedule?

Come on guys, take the glasses off. This is exactly like when in 2012- 2013 we were hearing that a certain team only won every race all year round because they kept getting easy fields.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

It's not just amazing that they can endure a tough 5 setter, and then bounce back so quickly and endure another 5 setter or in Fed's case, three 5 setters along with a straight set win within a week, but that they're doing it at this age. We all know if you've been there that as one ages, you can't recoup as fast.

I've read a lot of your comments on this thread, and it's obvious that you know a lot about the sport. I don't, so here goes my question.
Players are on the juice. We all get it.
This might be a dumb question, but assuming everyone is on the gear, why don't younger players like Dmitrov or Raonic beat the likes of Rafa?
I'm far from an expert at tennis, but I don't see a huge difference between, say, Rafa and Raonic in terms of style of play.
Federer is like a ballerina on a tennis court and is amazing to watch. Nadal, on the other hand is a bum-sniffing brute. Is Nadal better than Milos, or are they the same in terms of talent?

What Nadal does so well is read the play and place himself, that's how he's able to get to so many balls for his size - it's almost like playing a brick wall. Then there's the amazing amount of overspin Nadal gets, although the colossal racquet has to have something to do with that.

Raonic has the massive serve and beautiful clean striking of the ball, but he doesn't quite have the placement of Federer, the tactics of Nadal or the movement of Djokovic or Murray. He's very similar to Mark Phillipousis, who had a very similar game, and was able to beat any player in the world on his day but couldn't quite string enough wins together to go all the way in a grand slam.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

But good point, Federer not only beat Wawrinka in the semis, but Berdych in the 3rd round and Nishikori in the 4th round!

lol yeah.

So we have a 35 year old guy absolutely steamroll through the world number 10, then the world number 5, then beat the world number 3 followed by the world number 9. Every single one of these has been in a GS final and 2 have won multiple gs. In fact 2 of them have won this very GS, and one is the most recent GS champion.

But he was just lucky because of an easy schedule?

Come on guys, take the glasses off. This is exactly like when in 2012- 2013 we were hearing that a certain team only won every race all year round because they kept getting easy fields.

I don't think Federer had any business being as moving as good as he was and lasting as long as he was. I definitely think he's not clean. But doping isn't the sole reason he won the AO. He's definitely taken a long time off not only to juice, but also to work on key aspects of his game that enable him to still be competitive despite losing a step.

It's not like the turned a donkey into a racehorse. Not to the average spectator. The skill aspect of tennis is why few people will allow themselves to see doping is a big factor in winning too.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

But good point, Federer not only beat Wawrinka in the semis, but Berdych in the 3rd round and Nishikori in the 4th round!

lol yeah.

So we have a 35 year old guy absolutely steamroll through the world number 10, then the world number 5, then beat the world number 3 followed by the world number 9. Every single one of these has been in a GS final and 2 have won multiple gs. In fact 2 of them have won this very GS, and one is the most recent GS champion.

But he was just lucky because of an easy schedule?

Come on guys, take the glasses off. This is exactly like when in 2012- 2013 we were hearing that a certain team only won every race all year round because they kept getting easy fields.

The reality is Federer was a fake number 17 - Not missed 8 months through injury in 2016, then his true ranking is top 5 - The win was a shock considering his injury interrupted 2016.

 

[Norks74]

Re: Re:

It's not just amazing that they can endure a tough 5 setter, and then bounce back so quickly and endure another 5 setter or in Fed's case, three 5 setters along with a straight set win within a week, but that they're doing it at this age. We all know if you've been there that as one ages, you can't recoup as fast.

I've read a lot of your comments on this thread, and it's obvious that you know a lot about the sport. I don't, so here goes my question.
Players are on the juice. We all get it.
This might be a dumb question, but assuming everyone is on the gear, why don't younger players like Dmitrov or Raonic beat the likes of Rafa?
I'm far from an expert at tennis, but I don't see a huge difference between, say, Rafa and Raonic in terms of style of play.
Federer is like a ballerina on a tennis court and is amazing to watch. Nadal, on the other hand is a bum-sniffing brute. Is Nadal better than Milos, or are they the same in terms of talent?

I near choked when I read that. Hilarious.

 

[Red Rick]

It takes incredible talent to play the way Rafa does. Swinging that hard with that much control is crazy, crazy hard. The fact that he's playing an incredibly physical game, doesn't mean that he's hitting easy shots

Nadal had more talent in his removed appendix than Raonic

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

It takes incredible talent to play the way Rafa does. Swinging that hard with that much control is crazy, crazy hard. The fact that he's playing an incredibly physical game, doesn't mean that he's hitting easy shots

Nadal had more talent in his removed appendix than Raonic

Raonic is another Roddick, not even that good yet.

 

[Red Rick]

Those two aren't even that similar.

 

[DanielSong39]

No one is doubting Nadal's talent. With that said, one would expect him to be half-crippled by now instead of losing in 5 sets in the final of a Grand Slam.

As points of comparison Jim Courier was finished as a top-level player by 23 after 3 great seasons; Hewitt didn't do much after 2005, at the age of 24. Both had very physical games and it clearly took their toll.

 

[arcus]

RIP, apparently, the THASP blog.........

Tipping my hat to those who ran it, and also to the folks who posted there (the sane ones, obviously, not the loons :lol

 

[DanielSong39]

Not sure why the THASP blog died then and there. It could have at least fired one last parting shot at the four finalists at the Australian Open...

 

[robow7]

I'm confident Raonic can win a major, likely Wimbly where the faster court makes his serve even more unreturnable. His movement and court coverage has to continue to improve and that's not easy for a man of his size. But I guarantee that nobody wants him on their side of the draw come grass or faster hardcourt season.

I would love to know the hematocrits of several of the top players and their Hct norms during the month of November/December when they're on Holiday. Maybe nothing would smell but it's just hard to understand how someone like Nadal can do what he does for as long as he does on that court and then bounces back to do it again with so little time to recoup. It wasn't always like this, in the past you could see someone burning their matches in the early rounds by going 5 sets too soon in the tourney and that would leave them with nothing in the bank for the later rounds. Now, it's like 5 set and 5 hour matches, no big deal.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

RIP, apparently, the THASP blog.........

Tipping my hat to those who ran it, and also to the folks who posted there (the sane ones, obviously, not the loons :lol

What blog? I don't know it

 

[Netserk]

Tennis has a steroid problem.

 

[DanielSong39]

Well, it's pretty obvious that the four finalists in the Australian Open were doping. Looks like Federer got an upgrade, though. Did he get a referral from Nadal?

 

[peloton]

Interesting read.

http://tennispurist.blogspot.fi/2017/02/federers-fairy-tale-if-it-sounds-too.html

 

[Red Rick]

Nail. Head. BANG

It's basically the perfect summary of what many people think. People who deny it just want to stick their head in the sand, explain everything with 'talent, hard work and improved training methods' and look at you like you just committed blasphemy.