Tennis

Page 14 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Oct 11, 2010
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the sceptic said:
Not looking forward to the 5 set "epic" final? :D

Will not be watching. But yeah, I think it's safe to assume another "epic" five hour slug fest is in order.

Djokovic to edge out Murray in a tight, incredibly physical five-set battle between tennis robots. Djokovic will then rip his shirt off (obviously), before tearing the net in half with his bare hands and stomping a hole in the court.
 
ped's

Some thoughts to carry people through the 2nd week of the Australian Open.
The quotes below come from Charlie Francis (who was Ben Johnson's sprint coach), appearing in his book Speed Trap, published all the way back in 1990. And no offense to Tyler Hamilton, but Francis's book is far superior to The Secret Race. Anyway, here's some of the things Francis had to say:
"...steroids are training drugs, an investment for a future advantage. User improve because they can train harder and faster--and superior training yields superior performances down the road. When a world-class athlete claims he doesn't need steroids because he "work hard," he is stating a non sequitur. It is the steroids that allow him to work so hard--to increase his training capacity and withstand extreme physiological stress, thereby raising his performance level." (p. 90-91) "International sport is moving irrevocably toward a two-tiered athletic society--to prosecute the great mass of uninformed and expendable players, while giving carte blanche to a handful of well-connected superstars. Doping control in the 1990s will formalize limited, beatable testing--a controlled and selective roulette with the risk of major scandal. The anxious network sugar daddies will be appeased, the record-hungry fans satiated. And if the competitions become over-produced Hollywood farces, with an ever-widening gap between the few authentic contenders and all the rest with no chance, who will be the wiser."

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/

Spot On.
 
Oct 13, 2010
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Briant_Gumble said:
Murray is definitely on some stuff.

He has repeatedly criticized the laughably easy to circumvent testing in tennis, something which would be ludicrous for a clean athlete especially as he's consistently been Nadal's whipping boy.

I get the impression though his doping is less sophisticated than Nadal or Djokovic's. It comes across like he's using anabolic's which haven't really increased his power that much and his movement is still sluggish.

I think Federer is natural though, no drug would help you become that good of a shot maker.


You haven't been watching Fed closely if you think he's clean. In all honesty, I haven't wanted to admit it myself, I really like the guy; but I've been watching him play and between that and his age, yeah, I really think he's doping.
I think Cadel doped through that TDF he won for the same reasons as I think Fed dopes.

Now Nadal, it's sort of obvious, Djokevic's rise to #1 last uyear was painfully obvious... Murray, I actually put his Olympic win down to Fed feeling sorry for him because Johnny Mac said some rather disparaging things about Fed's winning. I really thought JM was a so and so for being so egregious about Fed's desire to win.

As for the Williams sisters, I really think they were clean, mostly because of their religion. However, those women are from Compton and their parents probably drilled in them since small, no drugs. But, I'm a realist also. I know doping exists in most if not all sports. Even golf. And not Daly's drinking.

With Venus, She has the height to carry her strength... Serena has the strength in her compactness. But they are both in their retirement ages. What happened with Serena at the Aussie this week when she was beaten by the younger Stephens, I chalked up to injuries. Sure she ranted, Serena has a temper. Not as bad as Johnny Mac's but a temper nonetheless. Is it roid rage. Is it when Tiger does it. So are they the only ones doping who can't control their tempers or the only ones doping?

Look at Sharapova... she seldom looses it but if she is on roids I don't think lance doped.

Btw, the cyclists are still coming home fist pumping and ready for an interview. Ahh, the good old days when they came home so tired they couldn't even stop their momentum, and they couldn't breathe yet along give an interview.
 
Jan 25, 2013
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Parker said:
For someone of her status, she loses a hell of a lot. Her form has always been very erratic. I doubt there's ever been a player who has won all four GSs and yet been knocked out before the QF so often.


True, but you really did not read through the post you quoted? I guess he was talking about his temper and roid rage, "losing it", not losing matches.

Btw, I have the impression that roid rage is actually quite rare on steroid users.

Look at Sharapova... she seldom looses it
 
Dec 14, 2012
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I think tennis and other sports like football are now where cycling was in the 90's. Doping is rife. With tennis's current testing protocols it would be almost impossible to test positive.

Check out Victor Conte's interviews. Even Marion Jones used EPO. I doubt she used this without getting and advantage. This says to me that if EPO can help in an event that lasts only a few seconds, than surely it should have a greater effect in tennis and football where continuous activity lasts a lot longer.

Recovery drugs like testosterone would benefit tennis players even more than cyclists. The eccentric muscle movements in a 5 hour tennis match puts WAY more strain on muscles and tendons than 5 hour bike races would. The recovery time of people like Novak Djokovic is too short to be considered plausible IMO. Nadal are Serena Williams are pretty obvious dopers.

There are no secret legal methods in professional sports, every legal method they use is known to most, because the coaches or doctors get their info from research articles that are available to most. I don't anymore believe that every athlete has 'secret' methods that he and his coach 'thought up' because they are smarter. Comments like the ones Novak Djokovic made after his 5hr match, saying he has 'his methods' only reinforces the idea in my mind that for sure, tennis has a doping problem. But, it doesn't look like they are ready to open Pandora's box yet.
 
As Cycle Chic correctly quotes, steroids are training drugs and tennis players put in huge amounts of training, both on court and off. Murray for example travels with not one but two fitness coaches whose only concern is their athlete's physical condition. The tennis stuff is handled by others.

Drugs in tennis can also be used to extend the competitive playing life of a player as he moves into his twilight years.

This article from The Times Neil Harman is interesting. The ITF are coming in for a lot of criticism as their joke of an anti-doping programme has been exposed.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ver-centre-court/story-fnb64oi6-1226562186044
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Cycle Chic said:

thanks for that link cycle chic.

very spot on. I would highlight this bit:
an ever-widening gap between the few authentic contenders and all the rest with no chance
you see it with Tennis now. the world top 4 are very consistently making it to the final four of the slams. very few surprises. It's what the ATP wants also. They want the top seeded players to get as far as possible. It's well-known that viewer ratings are better when the top-seeds get to the final stages. It's really hard to see the ATP starting any serious anti-doping campaign.

I recently speculated hat the biopassport in cycling will eventually have a similar effect of increasing the gap between dopers and clean guys. In order to dope within the bandwidth of the passport you need top quality medical assistence which only those few at the top can afford.
The others will be left to either (a) ride clean or (b) experiment with greater risks of getting caught.
 
clotho2 said:
You haven't been watching Fed closely if you think he's clean. In all honesty, I haven't wanted to admit it myself, I really like the guy; but I've been watching him play and between that and his age, yeah, I really think he's doping...
Now Nadal, it's sort of obvious, Djokevic's rise to #1 last uyear was painfully obvious... Murray,..

As for the Williams sisters, I really think they were clean, mostly because of their religion. However, those women are from Compton and their parents probably drilled in them since small, no drugs.

Look at Sharapova... she seldom looses it but if she is on roids I don't think lance doped.

Btw, the cyclists are still coming home fist pumping and ready for an interview. Ahh, the good old days when they came home so tired they couldn't even stop their momentum, and they couldn't breathe yet along give an interview.

Good post - I was of the same train of thought about the Williams, Sharapova, Federer...but if your TRAINER / COACH is telling you that your recovery from playing / injury will be improved...you do it. Bear in mind all the entourage are on COMMISSION from players / riders winnings.

Sharapova had a torn Rotator Cuff !!! and was back after just one year. And you dont see any religious compassion and empathy from Serena's outbursts at officials. Win at all costs with those 2. And Venus's mystery virus is odd.

And Simon Gerrans win - he could have done an interview coming up the last climb...not out of breath, not even a bead of sweat !!
 
Dec 27, 2010
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zebedee said:
As Cycle Chic correctly quotes, steroids are training drugs and tennis players put in huge amounts of training, both on court and off. Murray for example travels with not one but two fitness coaches whose only concern is their athlete's physical condition. The tennis stuff is handled by others.

Drugs in tennis can also be used to extend the competitive playing life of a player as he moves into his twilight years.

This article from The Times Neil Harman is interesting. The ITF are coming in for a lot of criticism as their joke of an anti-doping programme has been exposed.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ver-centre-court/story-fnb64oi6-1226562186044

That story is behind a paywall but here's a full text taken from another forum. (Mods - if this is not permitted just delete the post).

Lax drug-testing casts undue shadow over centre court
Harman, Neil. Weekend Australian [Canberra, A.C.T] 26 Jan 2013: 40.

It would be easy for cheats to thrive in professional tennis

CONSIDER this hypothetical sketch. After a four-hour match at the Australian Open, in the searing heat of the day, the winner returns to his hotel room and is infused with blood, boosting his red-cell count.

He then takes human growth hormone to repair micro-tears in his muscles and returns to the court 48 hours later in a fitter state than he was at the start of the previous round, runs around and wins again. What could tennis do about it? As things stand, the answer is nothing.

At present, there is no proviso for blood-testing winners and a loser's sample will not be specifically tested for blood-doping unless the authorities request it -- which they do not. They will not say how many tests they do for HGH, which may mean none. Any doper is home and dry. The problem with tennis is not whether it has a cheating culture, but that if it does, unless there is a dramatic shift in approach, we will never know about it.

The sport has moved into realms of dynamism, physicality and athleticism that could never have been imagined 10 years ago and yet the anti-doping program, the responsibility of the ITF in the manner approved by the World Anti-Doping Agency, has not kept up with the times. When world No 1 Novak Djokovic said in Melbourne that he had had one blood test in seven months and in the next breath felt the doping regime was sound, it was a shocking mixed message.

Djokovic was quite astonishing on Thursday night, defeating David Ferrer, the world No 4, 6-2, 6-2, 6-1 in the first semi-final and saying that he is playing the best tennis of his career. "Tonight I just played an incredible match. I don't expect this," he said. Only four days ago, he was taken to the brink in 5hr 2min by Stanislas Wawrinka, of Switzerland, and won 12-10 in the fifth set. In the next two matches, played in the space of 48 hours, he defeated Tomas Berdych, the world No 5, for the loss of 12 games, and the No 4, dropping five.

He is playing like a super-human and knows that people are questioning how he delivers time after time. He deserves the right for the sport to declare him -- and everyone -- unequivocally clean.

Djokovic would be right to be concerned with the laxity of the anti-doping procedures -- he should have had 10 tests in the seven months in which they stuck a needle into his arm once -- and he should also be pointing to the leaders in the sport and asking why more is not done, not simply to be satisfied that they always know where he is.

The Lance Armstrong scandal has every sport rattled and none more so than this one. The new in-word is recovery. There is almost as much discussion about what a player does when no one sees them as what they are achieving when the cameras are on them.

Today, a sense that tennis players simply do not dope pervades the sport's thinking. That is entirely wrongheaded. "The implication that greatness is compromised just because it's great is the biggest disservice you can do," said Justin Gimelstob, a player representative on the ATP board. "You could not do anything more damaging than imply that someone's hard work and talent is artificially enhanced." But only if tennis can be sure that there is no reason for anyone to imply anything will the implications cease.

It is time that Djokovic, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray took a decisive lead and demanded action. They need to tell the ITF it is its duty to put in place the finest system that money can buy and do the tests that will catch offenders. The anti-doping budget last year was $US1.8 million ($1.7m) and yet there was a $US300,000 underspend. How can that happen? That would pay for 500 decent blood-doping tests and then the sport would really know where it stood.

And how about freezing the blood and urine samples taken from this moment on and keeping them for a decade? If players know that the present quality of testing will not catch them because they are using something undetectable, they would be spooked by the thought of having their samples kept and retrospectively tested at any time in 10 years.

An anti-doping expert told The Times this week: "The storing of samples and publicly pronouncing that you are storing them is one of the biggest deterrents to doping in sport. The next test could be beaten, but it would be hard to beat a decade's advances in technology. It's in a laboratory somewhere -- a ticking time bomb."

Tennis has a global prize-money fund of $US500m, its popularity more profound than it has ever been. Imagine the crushing blow to the sport's prestige should one of the best in the sport be found to have been enhancing their performance.

Any increase in funding should be seen as an insurance policy to protect that astonishing level of investment. It is not about how much is spent: the UCI, cycling's governing body, spent $US5m a year and look what it got -- the Armstrong travesty. It is about how you execute the program with the money at your disposal. And the core of anti-doping is about protecting the reputation of clean athletes as much as it is catching the cheats.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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german eurosport commentator just reminded us that 7 or 8 years ago Murray weighed less than 70 kilograms on 1.85 height.
 
The $500 million annual prize money pot in tennis does not give the whole picture as the grand slam tournaments are stinking rich with all the zillions coming in from sponsors and TV rights. They have money to spend on roofs, fly all the tennis establishment (with their wives) around the world on keeping in touch vanity exercises and goodness knows what else. A proper anti-doping budget would be a drop in the ocean for them to fund were the resolve there.

So why haven't they done this already? Why is it all still at the discussion stage? Why is ITF anti-doping still fixated on 'educating athletes' when the athletes themselves know more about doping than the ITF.
 
will10 said:
That story is behind a paywall but here's a full text taken from another forum. (Mods - if this is not permitted just delete the post).

Interesting article from Harman, with all the money awash in tennis they could use some more for testing, especially like the bit where he says freezing blood and urine samples for future testing, though the UCI did this with 1999 samples, later testing positive and swept under the carpet. I suspect Tennis would do the same.
 
Aug 18, 2012
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del1962 said:
Interesting article from Harman, with all the money awash in tennis they could use some more for testing, especially like the bit where he says freezing blood and urine samples for future testing, though the UCI did this with 1999 samples, later testing positive and swept under the carpet. I suspect Tennis would do the same.

It wasn't like that proved to be useless though, it was used in the reasoned decision and was more smoke seen from the Armstrong fire that all eventually contributed to his Downfall.
 
Briant_Gumble said:
It wasn't like that proved to be useless though, it was used in the reasoned decision and was more smoke seen from the Armstrong fire that all eventually contributed to his Downfall.

Fair point, I will stand corrected, but there will be the temptation to hide past misdemenours.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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clotho2 said:
As for the Williams sisters, I really think they were clean, mostly because of their religion. However, those women are from Compton and their parents probably drilled in them since small, no drugs. But, I'm a realist also. I know doping exists in most if not all sports. Even golf. And not Daly's drinking.

With Venus, She has the height to carry her strength... Serena has the strength in her compactness. But they are both in their retirement ages. What happened with Serena at the Aussie this week when she was beaten by the younger Stephens, I chalked up to injuries. Sure she ranted, Serena has a temper. Not as bad as Johnny Mac's but a temper nonetheless. Is it roid rage. Is it when Tiger does it. So are they the only ones doping who can't control their tempers or the only ones doping?

The Williams sisters? About as clean as a turd. Serena (I think) once hid in a locked room in her house for hours from an OOC tester. Apparently she was afraid he was a stalker. They take the fans for such idiots. Also since when did being a Christian stop you from cheating? Plenty of religious people do. Their strength comes mainly from their enormous arms. Wonder how they got them.
 
Aug 18, 2012
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Caruut said:
The Williams sisters? About as clean as a turd. Serena (I think) once hid in a locked room in her house for hours from an OOC tester. Apparently she was afraid he was a stalker. They take the fans for such idiots. Also since when did being a Christian stop you from cheating? Plenty of religious people do. Their strength comes mainly from their enormous arms. Wonder how they got them.

Lol, great post.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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sniper said:
german eurosport commentator just reminded us that 7 or 8 years ago Murray weighed less than 70 kilograms on 1.85 height.

In his defence, he was 17 then. I grew quite a lot between about 17 and 19.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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sniper said:
german eurosport commentator just reminded us that 7 or 8 years ago Murray weighed less than 70 kilograms on 1.85 height.

Did they burden you with the detail of how much Murray weighs now? Several google searches suggest he is now 1.88m and 84kg, which is hardly Hulk Hogan.

Did German Eurosport pass any thoughts on how Boris Becker outmuscled mature adults in the mid 80s when a 17 year old?
 
Wallace and Gromit said:
Did German Eurosport pass any thoughts on how Boris Becker outmuscled mature adults in the mid 80s when a 17 year old?


I don't know if he doped or not but definitely Becker had a mid-sized graphite racquet in 1985. Kevin Curren also switched to graphite in 1985. In 1984, Curren was the last player to reach a Grand Slam final with a small sized wooden racquet (Oz Open).

In 1985, some players still used a wooden racquet (Mecir had a 'mid-sized' wooden racquet, which actually was a graphite paint job), a steel racquet (Connors only switched to graphite in 1987), or a small-sized graphite racquet (like Lendl).

McEnroe played a winner-take-all match against Becker in summer '85, which he mentioned in his autobiography (which he lost) and he clearly attributed Becker's wins to his racquet.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Wallace and Gromit said:
Did they burden you with the detail of how much Murray weighs now? Several google searches suggest he is now 1.88m and 84kg, which is hardly Hulk Hogan.

Did German Eurosport pass any thoughts on how Boris Becker outmuscled mature adults in the mid 80s when a 17 year old?
ceteris paribus

compare "like to like". Murray is from the physique of Andy Schleck. The Phasmatodea family.

that said, why the need to single out one player. all those top 10 guys are on the stuff. When Nadal raised the game, merely from what the cycling game would interpret as pretty ho-hom doping regimens, to full-on, professional, Fuentes/Ferrari type aids.

Like Armstrong's division of labor, he conceived doping performance enhancement, as another category to dial in.

blackcat is gonna TM this theory, the "Armstrong division of labor"- the concept that a professional sport engages pharmaceutical enhancement as a key bloc in their evolution.
 
May 26, 2009
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ANDY MURRAY raving ?

SKY News Sport are showing Andy , dribbling about " Blood Passport , Random Testing ,etc !

Does he sound like he is sleep walking recently ? Seems like he has no enthusiasm for speaking to the media !

Perhaps he is getting the same questions as Joker but as this is an English Speaking TV Channel , they think they are getting an exclusive !

@WADA_AMA have given @charles_pelkey's article in Red Kite Prayer , some good publicity ! Amazing that his April !st joke is what ALL Sport now needs !
 
skippy said:
SKY News Sport are showing Andy , dribbling about " Blood Passport , Random Testing ,etc !

Does he sound like he is sleep walking recently ? Seems like he has no enthusiasm for speaking to the media !

Perhaps he is getting the same questions as Joker but as this is an English Speaking TV Channel , they think they are getting an exclusive !

@WADA_AMA have given @charles_pelkey's article in Red Kite Prayer , some good publicity ! Amazing that his April !st joke is what ALL Sport now needs !

Thats Andy Murray full stop. He is a miserable sod.