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Tennis

Page 60 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Mar 13, 2009
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^^^


re: improves during the tourney?

it is relative, it is player A, v player B.


Lets say Nole Djokavic has gone thru the first 4 rounds, in straight sets, and 2 hours each match.

He meets a qualifier in thequarters, who has played 4 matches of 5 sets, 4 sets, 5 sets, 5 sets, and 16 hours on court.

The it Nole with 8 hours on court, versus 16 hours on court to a qualifier.

Will Nole look fresher?
 
Jul 15, 2013
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Andynonomous said:
I am certain that tennis players are doping in-competition.

1) Everyone knows when they are going to be tested in-competition (only after their match, if they lose, or after the final, if they win). Note that the ITF no longer publicizes when they test the players, since everyone knows their testing regime is ineffective.

2) Some players stamina, and strength improves in the second week of slams, where they play the better players. Nadal has often played back to back five setters in the semi, and final, running faster, and serving harder in the final, than he did in the first match of the tournament. This isn't possible without an in-competition recharge, especially with his gruelling style of play.

3) There is normally 48 hours between matches at a grand slam, and there are substances (testosterone patches, EPO) that are "hot" for only 12 hours or less. With their consulting doping doctors (some who are affiliated with the ITF) knowing when they will be tested, they can dope without any chance of testing positive.

Not true they test after losses too since last year. see my post above
 
Jul 15, 2013
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blackcat said:
^^^


re: improves during the tourney?

it is relative, it is player A, v player B.


Lets say Nole Djokavic has gone thru the first 4 rounds, in straight sets, and 2 hours each match.

He meets a qualifier in thequarters, who has played 4 matches of 5 sets, 4 sets, 5 sets, 5 sets, and 16 hours on court.

The it Nole with 8 hours on court, versus 16 hours on court to a qualifier.

Will Nole look fresher?
And a qualifier will have also played 3 qualifiers the week before to get into the main draw
 
Dec 30, 2010
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bewildered said:
Not true they test after losses too since last year. see my post above
I said that they test after losses, and both winner and loser are tested after finals.

They no longer publicize specifically when they test players (only year end summaries).

The point is, the players know they have a 48 hour window to dope, since the in-competition testing is not random.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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blackcat said:
^^^


re: improves during the tourney?

it is relative, it is player A, v player B.


Lets say Nole Djokavic has gone thru the first 4 rounds, in straight sets, and 2 hours each match.

He meets a qualifier in thequarters, who has played 4 matches of 5 sets, 4 sets, 5 sets, 5 sets, and 16 hours on court.

The it Nole with 8 hours on court, versus 16 hours on court to a qualifier.

Will Nole look fresher?

Qualifiers rarely make it to the quarters of a grand slam.

It is also rare that the time differences on court are that great.

There are easier, and tougher paths to the final, but that doesn't explain the sprinting around the court we see, late in a fifth set of a final, after a grueling semi.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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blackcat said:
the australian guy, nick kyrgios, wildcard.

A wildcard, isn't a qualifier. They don't play the qualification rounds, therefore don't have the same amount of "accumulated fatigue" that a qualifier would have.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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blackcat said:
basically never for the pusposes of this rhetoric
The rhetoric is all your own.

You make many bad assumptions.

- Qualifiers making it to the quarters (happens only rarely).
- Players rarely have half the time on court that their opponents do late in the tournament.
- A players easier path will explain their running faster in a final than the early rounds in spite of a grueling semi.
 
Jul 15, 2013
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they get tested after wins, and losses in earlier rounds since last year. they do not only get tested after a loss in a final or a win in a final.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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bewildered said:
they get tested after wins, and losses in earlier rounds since last year. they do not only get tested after a loss in a final or a win in a final.

That's the first I have heard that they get tested after wins in the earlier rounds.

That still gives them 48 hours, between tests in grand slams where they are tested every other day, only after matches. They should be tested on off days, if you want to catch them, since they will never dope close to their matches.
 
Jan 18, 2013
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Today Roger PEDerer was running for 4 hrs, it was 72*F, and the guy was not sweating.

Last year finally he restarted sweating, and he did not win anything, now he is back to his old tricks.

I am glad he didn't win today.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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It's amusing that you're glad Federer lost because you think he's on peds... when the guy he's lost to is Novak Djokovic.
 
Jan 18, 2013
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SeriousSam said:
It's amusing that you're glad Federer lost because you think he's on peds... when the guy he's lost to is Novak Djokovic.
You are drawing the wrong conclusion.

I am not glad he lost because I know he is doping, I am glad he lost because I dislike him.

Djokovic doping is a given.

My favorites players are Murray and Nadal, and guess what, I also think they are doing it.

I don't dislike a player for being juiced up to the gills, I dislike them or like them for other reasons than doping.
 
Jul 29, 2009
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It would be interesting to compare Mcenroe's fitness regime to today's players.

I think they pace themselves pretty well. Playing for x minutes does not equate to x minutes of running around. Lots of time to rest, eat and drink during games- much easier than say football or rugby. Distances travelled would be less as well I assume, although the stop start accelerations/decelerations are tiring.

Agree that testing in tennis is a joke and it would not surprise me that rules are bent or broken but it wouldn't be that surprising I they were clean. Far less surprising than a cyclist.
 
Jan 18, 2013
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SirLes said:
It would be interesting to compare Mcenroe's fitness regime to today's players.

I think they pace themselves pretty well. Playing for x minutes does not equate to x minutes of running around. Lots of time to rest, eat and drink during games- much easier than say football or rugby. Distances travelled would be less as well I assume, although the stop start accelerations/decelerations are tiring.

Agree that testing in tennis is a joke and it would not surprise me that rules are bent or broken but it wouldn't be that surprising I they were clean. Far less surprising than a cyclist.
McEnroe didn't have any fitness regime, he had his own training regime, and that was just being a long time on the court, that is why he played and won so many doubles tournaments, he was lucky to have a partner like Fleming, who was talented and accommodating at the same time, not everyone was able to keep up with a first rate a$$ hole like Johnny.
The one who changed the game was Lendl, not only playing, the modern game of power hitting from the base line it was imposed by him, but also everything related to fitness and nutrition.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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Fifth set winning record is a good indicator of who takes stamina boosting substances.

Roger Federer- Fifth set winning percentage .550
Rafael Nadal- Fifth set winning percentage - .762


When you consider that Nadal has a FAR more taxing style of play, you would expect him to fatigue more in long matches, but he fatigues LESS. Can you say EPO ?
 
victorschipolrijk said:
Today Roger PEDerer was running for 4 hrs, it was 72*F, and the guy was not sweating.

Last year finally he restarted sweating, and he did not win anything, now he is back to his old tricks.

I am glad he didn't win today.
I was laughing when before the game the commentators were saying the weather suits djoker because if it was hotter, Federer would outlast Djokovic. This is a guy who won the most gruelling vs final of all time vs Nadal 2 years back in god knows what temperature Melbourne served up, and 32 year old fed still has better stamina.
 
SirLes said:
It would be interesting to compare Mcenroe's fitness regime to today's players.

I think they pace themselves pretty well. Playing for x minutes does not equate to x minutes of running around. Lots of time to rest, eat and drink during games- much easier than say football or rugby. Distances travelled would be less as well I assume, although the stop start accelerations/decelerations are tiring.

Agree that testing in tennis is a joke and it would not surprise me that rules are bent or broken but it wouldn't be that surprising I they were clean. Far less surprising than a cyclist.
Not surprising if they were clean? That would be a bigger shock to me than finding out Elvis is still alive and has been secretly running the world for the last 2 decades.

Together with Bruce lee:cool:

I can only assume you are looking at it from a superficial perspective and thinking that since ostensibly technique is important they wouldn't need to dope. Which ignores the reality of training and the fact that anyone putting in the extra dope fuelled hours is gonna have a serve that much stronger, the stamina to go that much longer, the speed to catch that ball that much faster. An entire collection of athletes is going to ignore these potential benefits despite no deterent to doing so? That's not how life and in particular competition, work.
 
Jan 24, 2012
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The Hitch said:
I was laughing when before the game the commentators were saying the weather suits djoker because if it was hotter, Federer would outlast Djokovic. This is a guy who won the most gruelling vs final of all time vs Nadal 2 years back in god knows what temperature Melbourne served up, and 32 year old fed still has better stamina.
That Aussie match was quite intense. Djoko wins in ~6 hours after playing ~5 hours two(three?) nights before. The only thing I'll say about Federer though is, if his opponent tries to wear him out by hitting back and forth to each side trying to make Federer run, he'll just give up the point (last few years at least). Which is the opposite of Nadal and Djokovic who will chase 95%(maybe higher?) of balls down late into matches. Yes Fed does chase some, or even many balls down but he seems to pace himself somewhat by not chasing all the time for everything. I personally do not think it is possible for Nadal to tire out. Maybe a 20 hour match against Djoko? Remove tiebreakers for sets one through four on a hard court and we might see some insane match times.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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when the best players in the world, have also been the fittest, one needs to question like cycling...

thomas muster, jimcourier, pat rafter... the spaniards in the 90s...
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Andynonomous said:
Fifth set winning record is a good indicator of who takes stamina boosting substances.

Roger Federer- Fifth set winning percentage .550
Rafael Nadal- Fifth set winning percentage - .762


When you consider that Nadal has a FAR more taxing style of play, you would expect him to fatigue more in long matches, but he fatigues LESS. Can you say EPO ?
not really.

compare Rafa's five set record, to his overall win record.

same with Federer, you are not comparing like to like.



if for some reason, a guy can make a match go to 5 sets, and has the ability to push a competitor to 5 sets, bacause, the only 5 setters are in the Slams, so you have to push a tennis player who is ~top 100 to 5 sets, then compare this amorphous hypothetical player, to his win-loss record, versus ~top 100 =/= 5 sets, but in 3 and 4 setters.
 

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