Tennis

[buckle]

Not one poster on here has proof of Nadal or Murray taking PED's.

Just because your sport has been rancid to the very core for the last 15-20 years(and you even had the benefit of Festina) does not allow you to write inflammatory remarks about other athletes with no substance D).

If you have proof please post but leave the innuendo alone.

Serena's embolism?

 

[sniper]

I think he WAS tested and banned...

Probably tested positive in June 2012, for something minor.
A-sample is reported to ITF, who tells him to 'leave' Wimbledon.
Nadal wants to see B-sample, which is analysed mid July.
Nadal withdraws from London Olympics July 19, for no good reason.
Nadal withdraws from every tournament until 6 months have passed.
Ban is lifted mid January, AFTER the start of Australian Open.
Playing a minor tournament instead of AO would be impossible to explain.
First possible tournament after the AO is the Chile Open, February 5.

Game on!

bumping ^this^ post.

This sounds like something you wouldn't make up that easily. Nicko, is this just you speculating? I'd be thankful for more background.

 

[zebedee]

A helpful mole from the ITF HQ in Roehampton would be useful here. Any volunteers?

The culture of doping in the Spanish-speaking tennis fraternity goes way beyond Nadal, a lot of it going on in the relative boondocks of South America.
I well remember an Argentine doctor once laughing at me (in 2004 this was) when I asked him over there at an ITF whether their players really doped or not. Basically they all did. It was routine.

Once his fledgling talent became known, Nadal could have grown up on HGH supplementation with blood doping coming in later. (He's around 6 foot 2''; how does this compare with other members of his family?). If he was connected with Fuentes then the blood doping would have started while he was still in his late teens. Is this a realistic doping scenario for a tennis player? I'm not sure.

Having visited a couple of the Spanish academies, you can see the supplement-oriented culture all around you. Tie that in with the sports clinics there where doctor-led, player performance assessment/development is a way of life and you are literally a hair breadth's away from doping; a moral decision alone almost in stopping you from doing it. And we all know that moral character in sport is a very rare quality indeed.

Personally, I think any Fuentes revelations regarding tennis would throw up a few players from the generation before Nadal. Players like ex-world No 1 Carlos Moya who, coincidentally or not, was one of Nadal's earliest practice partners in his junior years.

 

[Cycling is boring as fk]

A helpful mole from the ITF HQ in Roehampton would be useful here. Any volunteers?




Having visited a couple of the Spanish academies, you can see the supplement-oriented culture all around you. Tie that in with the sports clinics there where doctor-led, player performance assessment/development is a way of life and you are literally a hair breadth's away from doping; a moral decision alone almost in stopping you from doing it. And we all know that moral character in sport is a very rare quality indeed.

Please give specific examples of what you saw in the academies, what academies you visited and in what capacity you visited as.

 

[Cycling is boring as fk]

Everyone knows nadal takes.peds. Even the French were taking the **** out of his heavy doping on cartoons on national tv.

And im guessing that whatever google search led you here had you suspecting as much.

Ps if you like us you'll love this.

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1

That guy is known to post accusations with no actual proof.

The only way you will catch drug cheats is to challenge the journalists to ask the right questions ala David Walsh. Blogs like the one you posted hurt the cause and discredit us all.

 

[blackcat]

bumping ^this^ post.

This sounds like something you wouldn't make up that easily. Nicko, is this just you speculating? I'd be thankful for more background.

THASP
Tennis Has A Steroid Problem is a great clearing house for tennis doping like The Clinic and Betsy is for cycling.

 

[blackcat]

That guy is known to post accusations with no actual proof.

The only way you will catch drug cheats is to challenge the journalists to ask the right questions ala David Walsh. Blogs like the one you posted hurt the cause and discredit us all.

BS, everyone on this board individually knew Armstrong was dirty from the latest at 2004.

you wish for an evidence burden that is impractical. I can have a fridge on a generator at home that will be always at 0 celsius and run my own tranfusion program, and microdose 4:1 ratio of testo-epi and hgh that is not outside the normal.

 

[blackcat]

I have read but don't know that it's true, that Nadal claims to Never spend any time working out with weights and yet the biceps of the man are extreme for a tennis player. You don't get those guns by hitting a tennis ball. Huge forearm, heavy wrist but not those bi's. I like the kid and would hate to think that he has been using Ped's but who knows what Uncle Tony has been feeding him and without his knowledge (Pure speculation with no fact to back up)

Like with Agassi and Gil's shakes.

Agassi and Gils shakes hehheh

good post

 

[SundayRider]

bumping ^this^ post.

This sounds like something you wouldn't make up that easily. Nicko, is this just you speculating? I'd be thankful for more background.

If this ever turned out be true and was made public it would be just as bad for Tennis as Armstrong affair has been for cycling.

 

[Cycling is boring as fk]

BS, everyone on this board individually knew Armstrong was dirty from the latest at 2004.

you wish for an evidence burden that is impractical. I can have a fridge on a generator at home that will be always at 0 celsius and run my own tranfusion program, and microdose 4:1 ratio of testo-epi and hgh that is not outside the normal.

I agree with you there. Tennis like Armstrong will only be cleaned up if people talk. Guy Forget and Noah have both hinted at real knowledge of doping in tennis but are unwilling to reveal any evidence.

Mr Fuentes's tennis client list also is yet to be revealed which doesn't help either.

 

[sampras38]

I think he got on a programme early.

Also Nadal was not an extreme talent as an early teenager 13-14 he had the makings of a top 50 player but not someone as successful as he's been and not a prodigy in the same way as as Gasquet or Agassi.

Also I disagree with the poster you quoted who said Nadal has a good slice, limited with that shot IMO. I see him as the technically least talented player of the top 4, very much a baseline slugger.

Watch his game a bit more closely..

He used to rely pretty much 100% on his topspin forehand but he's had to add the slice and a better serve to his game to compete on the other surfaces. He can also volley a lot better than some people realise.

 

[sampras38]

What reason is there to believe he's not on the sauce though?

Never tested positive? More like never tested.

I'm not niaive enough to blankly say he's 100% clean, but I'm not accusing him without good reason either. Just because he's Spanish and a little more muscular than your average pro, does not imo mean a doper.

Rusedski, Korda, Coria, etc...have all been linked to doping, or specifically Nandrolone, and all are stick thin. I'm sure tennis has a few drug cheats we don't know about but I'm not going to accuse everyone just because of what goes on in the peleton.

 

[Caruut]

I'm not niaive enough to blankly say he's 100% clean, but I'm not accusing him without good reason either. Just because he's Spanish and a little more muscular than your average pro, does not imo mean a doper.

Rusedski, Korda, Coria, etc...have all been linked to doping, or specifically Nandrolone, and all are stick thin. I'm sure tennis has a few drug cheats we don't know about but I'm not going to accuse everyone just because of what goes on in the peleton.

Fair enough. When I say "I think Nadal is doping", it is not an attempt to smear him. For all I know, he's a nice guy. What it is, however, is a statement that based on what I know about various things:

- The state of dope testing in tennis
- Human nature
- The attitudes of top players, Nadal, Djokovic and to an extent Murray as well
- Nadal's physique
- The difference in modern physiques compared to previously
- What I understand to be possible with modern dope

I think that it is more likely that he is doping than he is not. That is not to say I would convict him if I were on a panel of some sort or at CAS. There is no evidence to do so at the moment - by the rules as is he is innocent. That doesn't change my opinion, though.

 

[peterh]

Rafael Nadal gave an interview to L'Equipe where he said the Fuentes list should be revealed. The google translation is not very good, maybe someone can make a better one.

"El tenista dijo no estar muy al corriente de lo que sucede en el mundo del dopaje, afirmó no comprender el juicio por la 'Operación Puerto' y que la juez no quisiera que Eufemiano Fuentes revelara los nombres de las personas implicadas. "No entiendo por qué no se va hasta el final de las cosas (...) Como el médico es español, es el deporte español el que sufre el perjuicio. Como deportista eso me daña. A causa de gente como Armstrong tenemos una imagen dudosa", aseguró."


http://tenis.as.com/tenis/2013/02/07/mas_tenis/1360230317_131216.html

 

[sniper]

his statement in that interview, although not completely straightforward, can be taken to suggest he's not on (and hence not afraid of) the Fuentes list.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

bumping ^this^ post.

This sounds like something you wouldn't make up that easily. Nicko, is this just you speculating? I'd be thankful for more background.

his statement in that interview, although not completely straightforward, can be taken to suggest he's not on (and hence not afraid of) the Fuentes list.

The whole trial is a bit soft though, I don't think Fuentes is massively worried about perjuring himself under oath. If Fuentes is even asked to reveal his client list then I'm pretty sure it will be a partial admission with lots of names left out.

If Nadal is one of his clients and he doesn't have a different supplier then he's one of his top earning clients and can afford to pay him off a bit.

 

[peterh]

Someone bought the paper and translated that interview. I will post only the relevant part:

Q: Have you undergone anti-doping tests during your time off?
Rafa: Nine. Three blood tests and six urine tests. That’s a lot for somebody who is stuck at home without being able to play. The last two weeks, I was tested four times, two of which close together.

Q: At the end of the previous season, Murray and Federer regretted the fact that they had less doping tests in recent months, esp. out-of-competition tests. Do you agree?
Rafa: If they decide tomorrow that I’ll need to be tested weekly, that’s no problem at all. Great. Life is beautiful, perfect. I need to know that those I’m playing against are as clean as I am. So, if you say that more testing needs to be done, that’s easy. When you say a thing like that, everybody applauds and everybody would sign for it.

Q: Don’t you think that the results of the doping tests need to be made public?
Rafa: That would be the best. That’s the thing! If all tests would be made public, it would calm down the rumours surrounding the sport. I’m all for it.

Q: What do you think of the possibility of introducing a biological passport in tennis?
Rafa: I don’t know what it is (laughs). Biological passport, the Puerto trial, that’s far from my world. What’s happening right now in Spain in a court of law, is something that I don’t understand. I don’t understand why doctor Fuentes doesn’t give names. I don’t understand why the judge doesn’t ask him to name them. That has disappointed me…It would be best if the doctor just tells them and those who are caught, suffer the consequences. I don’t know why they don’t go right down to the bottom of it all. We need to cleanse it properly. I have heard that this doctor has worked with foreign athletes but because the doctor is Spanish, the prejudice is mainly aimed at Spanish sports people. As a Spanish sports person, this affects me badly. Because of people like Armstrong, all our reputations are in doubt.

Q: Do you know that some people think that your 7-month absence is due to a silent doping ban?
Rafa: Yes and those rumours exist because those doping tests are not made public. The ITF needs to be transparent. Same with WADA. If not, it will continue and I will be forced to have to hear the stupid comments Christophe Rochus (*) utters without any evidence. It’s incredible to me that something like that gets published without any evidence. Give me evidence and I’ll be okay with it.

Q: The ITF says that the blood tests are too expensive and that…
Rafa: (interrupts). You know what is costly? The bad image of the sport. That’s what has a high price.

 

[coinneach]

Someone bought the paper and translated that interview. I will post only the relevant part:

Good on you Rafa.....I sure do like you!

I hope to goodness you are clean.

For all these "miracle treatments" you've been getting, you ain't been recovering like some dopers do.

Get well soon

 

[zebedee]

Post-Armstrong, all the players are now very much on message. This stands in stark contrast with their whining and distortions of the past. The inconsistency in their own utterings breeds doubt. Remember, Murray himself labelled Wayne Odesnik a 'snitcher'; so we know where he stands on whistleblowing.

Fuentes, judging from his behaviour, is an unreliable witness. It is the physical evidence that should go to WADA, so a process of investigation, including DNA matching, can begin.

 

[iejeecee]

this just posted on the dutch nos site

Nadal: "Idioot dopingcommentaar"
Rafael Nadal Rafael Nadal NOS
Toegevoegd: donderdag 7 feb 2013, 18:17
Update: donderdag 7 feb 2013, 18:45

Rafael Nadal heeft gereageerd op de geruchten dat hij een dopingschorsing zou hebben uitgezeten.

Een schorsing zou, volgens de Belgische oud-tennisser Christophe Rochus, verklaren waarom de Spanjaard zeven maanden afwezig was.

"Dat gerucht doet de ronde omdat de controles niet openbaar zijn", stelt de voormalig nummer één van de wereld vanuit Chili, waar hij dinsdag zijn rentree maakte.
Idioot

"De internationale tennisfederatie zou er gewoon mee naar buiten moeten komen. Net als het WADA", vervolgt Nadal in L'Equipe. "Gebeurt dat niet dan zal er niets veranderen en zal ik het idiote commentaar, zonder enig bewijs, van Rochus moeten blijven aanhoren."

De Belgische oud-tennisser zei het verdacht te vinden dat Nadal en ook de Zweed Robin Söderling zo lang afwezig waren. "Hoe kan Nadal in 2012 Roland Garros winnen en een maand later niet meer spelen? Dat lijkt erg verdacht, maar we hebben geen bewijs."

Nadal deed nog wel mee aan Wimbledon, waar hij op 28 juni in de tweede ronde verrassend verloor van de Tsjech Lukas Rosol. Dat was zijn laatste wedstrijd in 2012.

// Translation //

Rafael Nadal has reacted to the rumours that he served a silent doping ban

A ban which would explain his seven month absence, according to former Belgian player Christope Rochus

"The rumor exists because the results of doping controls are not public", comments the former number one player in the world from Chili, where he is making his comeback on Thursday.
Idiotic

"the international tennis federation should publish their results publicly, like WADA", Nadal continues. "If that won't happen nothing will change and I will have to keep defending myself from idiotic comments, without any proof, from people like Rochus"

The Belgian former player feels its suspicious how Nadal and the swede Robin Söderling were missing from the tour for so long. "How can Nadal win Roland Garros in 2012 and not be able to play only a month later? It seems very suspect, but we don't have any proof".

Nadal did attend Wimbledon, where on the 28th of June he unexpectedly lost in the second round to Lukas Rosol. It was his last match of 2012

 

[sampras38]

Fair enough. When I say "I think Nadal is doping", it is not an attempt to smear him. For all I know, he's a nice guy. What it is, however, is a statement that based on what I know about various things:

- The state of dope testing in tennis
- Human nature
- The attitudes of top players, Nadal, Djokovic and to an extent Murray as well
- Nadal's physique
- The difference in modern physiques compared to previously
- What I understand to be possible with modern dope

I think that it is more likely that he is doping than he is not. That is not to say I would convict him if I were on a panel of some sort or at CAS. There is no evidence to do so at the moment - by the rules as is he is innocent. That doesn't change my opinion, though.

I don't actually think Murray's physique is anything out of the ordinary either that you couldn't achieve with the right training. I came from a bodybuilding past, then tennis and cycling, and with a full time job I had achieved a physique completely naturally not dissimilar to what Murray has now. I was probably even a little heavier.

I'm now much much lighter.

 

[Nicko.]

I think he WAS tested and banned...

Probably tested positive in June 2012, for something minor.
A-sample is reported to ITF, who tells him to 'leave' Wimbledon.
Nadal wants to see B-sample, which is analysed mid July.
Nadal withdraws from London Olympics July 19, for no good reason.
Nadal withdraws from every tournament until 6 months have passed.
Ban is lifted mid January, AFTER the start of Australian Open.
Playing a minor tournament instead of AO would be impossible to explain.
First possible tournament after the AO is the Chile Open, February 5.

Game on!

bumping ^this^ post.

This sounds like something you wouldn't make up that easily. Nicko, is this just you speculating? I'd be thankful for more background.

I am watching the development of the similar Söderling story. Robin also had an undefined 'medical condition' that forced him out of the sport just after winning Swedish Open July 17, 2011 (ranked #5 in the world, no less).
Of course, the official statements about the 'medical condition' that has be spouted since then borders on complete idiocy.
So I'm just waiting for the miraculous recovery that will be announced late July 2013

Nadals sudden return to the game made me go "hmm". I applied the Söderling analysis to the similar Nadal case.
When did he return to competitive tennis?
Where and why not Australian Open?
How long ago was his last competitive game?

Everything lined up perfectly

So, sorry, no inside scoop.


Edit:

this just posted on the dutch nos site

...
The Belgian former player feels its suspicious how Nadal and the swede Robin Söderling were missing from the tour for so long.

...

It seems I'm not the only one making this connection...

 

[iejeecee]

I always felt soderling was one of the more "obvious" dopers. Just from his physique and the way he would blast every ball at 1000mp/h.

Though as a casual tennis watcher, I hadn't really realized he was missing from tennis

Guess doping doesn't improve your personality.

 

[sniper]

I am watching the development of the similar Söderling story. Robin also had an undefined 'medical condition' that forced him out of the sport just after winning Swedish Open July 17, 2011 (ranked #5 in the world, no less).
Of course, the official statements about the 'medical condition' that has be spouted since then borders on complete idiocy.
So I'm just waiting for the miraculous recovery that will be announced late July 2013

Nadals sudden return to the game made me go "hmm". I applied the Söderling analysis to the similar Nadal case.
When did he return to competitive tennis?
Where and why not Australian Open?
How long ago was his last competitive game?

Everything lined up perfectly

So, sorry, no inside scoop.


Edit:


It seems I'm not the only one making this connection...

Good to have you here, Christophe. Tennis clearly needs more guys like you.

 

[hrotha]

his statement in that interview, although not completely straightforward, can be taken to suggest he's not on (and hence not afraid of) the Fuentes list.

Not really. Whether or not he's in the list, he looks good from asking for it to be made public. His words can have no impact on whether or not the list is released anyway.