The 2020 CQ Ranking Manager Thread

Page 34 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Probably wise to wait and see what the first race will be next season and what a preliminary schedule looks like, before starting up the new game.

Doesnt look like anyone has a clue what race that will be right now, but maybe it will become more clear after the Vuelta is done and things settle a bit.

Im enjoying the end of this game though. My team was pretty far down when the racing took a break. Since the Tour and on, my team has climbed steadily. Looking to end up in a top 20 spot. From the position I was in around the 70-mark I think, it is not too bad to end up here.
 
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Vuelta C Valencia is currently scheduled for early February. It sounds like have a plan to provide safety due to Covid to race it.

La edición 72 de la Vuelta a la Comunidad Valenciana-GP Banc Sabadel, carrera de categoría de Pro-Series, tiene previsto celebrarse entre los días 3 y 7 de febrero de 2021, con el propósito de mejorar sus registros y el objetivo de garantizar la máxima seguridad en la lucha contra el COVID-19.

The 72nd edition of the Vuelta a la Comunidad Valenciana-GP Banc Sabadel, a Pro-Series category race, is scheduled to take place between February 3 and 7, 2021, with the purpose of improving its records and the objective of guaranteeing the maximum security in the fight against COVID-19.

 
Update #28: Vuelta Stage Points Serve up Appetizer Before Closing Week

This is it! This weird and interrupted year of the CQ game is going to go out with a bang after this week, with grand tour GC points on offer to end things off rather than the conventional tapering off of Paris-Tours, a Chinese WT-season ender and the Japan Cup. The die is mostly cast, and the top teams should have a good idea of what riders they have left at this point, but there's still one update to go. How did it go in the penultimate week?

This Week's Top Scorers

RankTeamPoints this week
1HelgeBlendet186
2ChrisDK157
3Kazistuta145
4CQPlayer7373136
5armchairclimber133

HelgeBlendet is one of 5 teams to have picked Hugh Carthy in this game, and although he's still about 200 points below his tally of last year, he looks like a really fun pick to have coming home in the race. He scored 80 points this, 70 from a stage win that seems like it should be worth more than regular GT points as it was on the Angliru. Helge also got 40 points from Marc Soler, who has matched his points output from 2019, and 25 from Max Kanter and 24 from Johan Jacobs, who I didn't think was even riding the Vuel - wait, the Swiss championships happened this week? The country that couldn't host the Worlds in September now hosts a much less crucial race when covid numbers are 10x higher? This year makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. ChrisDK, a familiar name on this ranking but not seen in a bit, grabs second place thanks to 62 points from Alexandr Vlasov, a rider owned by only one other lucky team, and 20 from Alex Aranburu. Long-time game vet Kazistuta takes third with 40 from a triumvirate of riders: Soler, Dan Martin (4 teams, another good looking rare pick) and unique pick Gerben Thijssen.

This Week's High Movers

RankTeamUp/down
1HelgeBlendet(+8)
2ChrisDK(+7)
3armchairclimber(+6)
4Luthor(+4)
4comodoro(+4)

The same top 2 here, with armchairclimber slotting in the final spot of the podium. Not a lot of room to move with less than 150 points in the penultimate week of the game.

Green Jersey Competition

RankTeamTotal
1Jakob747279.7
2ChrisDK227
3bminchow210
4Wallenquist186
5BlueRoads178

ChrisDK was one of the only teams within any kind of remote striking distance of Jakob747's lead in this competition, and their team was the only one in the top 5, scoring 35 points for second place on the week. However, such is the nature of the lead Jakob built up that it's mathematically impossible for anyone to catch up in the single week remaining - if ChrisDK won next week and got 45 points, there would still be a 7.7 point gap. So - presuming the team finishes the final stage ;) - congrats to Jakob747 for having the most consistent high finishes over the year and winning this competition!

Top 10 Overall


RankUp/downTeamPoints
1(-)9493
2(-)Wallenquist9211
3(-)Nyssinator8945
4(-)Object8817
5(+1)Lortnoc8762
6(-1)BlueRoads8743
7(-)EvansIsTheBest8578
8(-)Nathanptz8465
9(+2)skidmark8393
10(-)Londonpat8373

With so few points on offer this week, there is not much change at the top as only dozens of points separate the top teams. Of course, the final week of the Vuelta offer some major points, although Wallenquist highlighted the challenge facing their team in overcoming the deficit, and all other teams are a few hundred points farther back, so it's looking good for bminchow.

I'll follow up in the next day with a breakdown of how things look at the top, as well as respond to some discussion about the rules for the game next year with the points all out of whack this year. I've got some ideas! In the meantime, thanks all for playing once again this year, and hope your last week of cycling enjoyment is pleasurable!

spreadsheet at dropbox
 
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Sep 5, 2011
233
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9,030
Armchair and EvansIsTheBest have already done some statistical analysis of how covid has reduced the scoring this year.

7500 points shared between 33 riders gives an average spend of 227 points. 227 at the end of 2019 would place a rider in 300th place. 300th in the current rankings (with last year's rather than current Vuelta points applied) is earned by 127 points. 127 x 33 is 4191. That would indicate 4000 or 4500 as an equivalent budget.
Just to frame the debate around next year's budget with a couple numbers, here is a comparaison of the total number of points allocated per year since the beginning of the game:
2020 (YTD) 131099
2019 277940
2018 280460
2017 276315
2016 265169
2015 262216
2014 253292
2013 248098
2012 253566
2011 247029
2010 238623
I've a different method to show this. Below are the points scored by the riders in 10th, 25th, 50th, 100th, 250th and 500th position over the past five years (obviously there will be a slight change post-Vuelta in a week's time).

-​
10th​
25th​
50th​
100th​
250th​
500th​
2020​
1114​
757​
543​
331​
137​
60​
2019​
1582​
1207​
840​
565​
271​
142​
2018​
1639​
1118​
854​
561​
273​
144​
2017​
1559​
1265​
884​
530​
268​
142​
2016​
1511​
1109​
777​
531​
270​
139​

I think we ought to have a reduced budget myself. That would mirror real life with teams experiencing sponsorship woes and even struggling to exist.

Similarly to EvansIsTheBest I had a quick go at throwing a team together. Now normally my teams are rather idiosyncratic, but trying to be fairly main stream I ended up with an initial 25 riders at ~4500. Not the full team of course, but maybe it would end up at ~5500.

I'm not advocating something extreme as half the normal budget, but a reduction to something between 5000 and 6000 seems like a good option. On paper you would still end up with a far "better" team than any of the past year's editions.
 
[...]- wait, the Swiss championships happened this week?
That was my reaction as well when I checked cq. Then I was confused why this early in the season the points total for next season gets discussed already and THEN I checked the calender and was completely confused. Having to stay indoors/away from other humans besides my gf since April really messed with my sense of time and the wonky cycling calendar this year doesn't help at all.

Thanks for the update!
Very happy with the Vuelta so far. Having 6 different GT stage winners with only Soler and Kämna being picked by more than 5 guys at most feels good even though GTs are the thing I care least about.
 
Okay, so with regards to next year, here is what I said back in March when things shut down:

  • if there are some races but a significant number of races cancelled, I'd lean towards running the game with 2020 scores but a team score that's weighted based on where 7500 is now relative to the average ProTour team. That is, team cost this year was 7500, mean PT team score was 8716. So, team maximum score would be tailored to roughly 86% of the average PT team score that ends up with however many races are raced this year.
I thought this was an alright idea, and game founder Hugo Koblet supported it as well. We'd have to wait until the Vuelta was over to see for sure, but to give an indicator, the median WT team right now is Mitchelton Scott, which has 5069.

I would even say to make it simpler that I could link it to the median or mean of WT teams post-Vuelta, whichever is higher, rounded to the nearest hundred. Forget the 86% thing.

However, I am tempted to just let fly with 7500 and see what that gets us. That would have rules consistent with the history of the game and be very simple.

Or... we could do both? I'd need someone to offer to run one of the games, but we could have a low-cost and regular-cost game simultaneously. If the majority of us are in various states of being locked down right now, god knows we have time to work on our teams.

Thoughts and feedback welcome - I'll make a decision and announce it next week, after we've wrapped the final update.

Another important thing to note is that if the Aussie championships are moving to February as I recently read, teams won't be due right at the start of January as usual. So there's a bit more time, most likely. Tentatively, they are scheduled for February 3-7; the traditional European openers like Mallorca and GP Marseillaise are still scheduled for the end of January, but of course we'll have to see what happens. I can probably decide on a due date of sometime in late January set and posted by the time I make the new game thread in Decmeber.
 
Skidmark, I haven't heard anything about the Mallorca races yet, but I have read that Vuelta a Valencia has already gotten their dates from the UCI for their typical early Feb slot. They are planning a Vuelta a Espana bubble for the race. It sounds like the Spanish Govt and provincial govt are supporting it's being raced.
 
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Skidmark, I haven't heard anything about the Mallorca races yet, but I have read that Vuelta a Valencia has already gotten their dates from the UCI for their typical early Feb slot. They are planning a Vuelta a Espana bubble for the race. It sounds like the Spanish Govt and provincial govt are supporting it's being raced.
That's good to know, thanks. The Aussie nationals are usually the first CQ points of the year and they're scheduled pretty firmly from Feb 3-7th, so I'm confident projecting that as a general start timeframe unless the part of Australia they're in is subject to a flareup like Victoria had a few months ago. Australia is one of the lowest rates in the world so I feel pretty confident the event will go ahead, so regardless of what happens in Europe that should be a safe timeframe to peg the start to. To me it makes sense to make the deadline a bit before that if there are races (like Mallorca) tentatively scheduled for like 5 days earlier, just so long as I settle on a date before the new year's post goes up. I haven't been able to find anything on the Tropicale Amissa Bongo, but I would assume it wouldn't happen in the usual January slot if at all - unless someone has info on an earlier race, I'll probably go with late January.
 
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That's good to know, thanks. The Aussie nationals are usually the first CQ points of the year and they're scheduled pretty firmly from Feb 3-7th, so I'm confident projecting that as a general start timeframe unless the part of Australia they're in is subject to a flareup like Victoria had a few months ago. Australia is one of the lowest rates in the world so I feel pretty confident the event will go ahead, so regardless of what happens in Europe that should be a safe timeframe to peg the start to. To me it makes sense to make the deadline a bit before that if there are races (like Mallorca) tentatively scheduled for like 5 days earlier, just so long as I settle on a date before the new year's post goes up. I haven't been able to find anything on the Tropicale Amissa Bongo, but I would assume it wouldn't happen in the usual January slot if at all - unless someone has info on an earlier race, I'll probably go with late January.
I think for now I'd go with Mallorca goes on as scheduled and make the deadline for before that series of races starts. If the smaller Spanish races can replicate the Vuelta a Espana bubble I think the Spanish Gov and provincial governments will allow the races to go ahead. If I see anything from the Spanish groups I'm part of I'll pass on the info.
 
Update #29: bminchow wins the 2020 CQ Game!

This is it folks! The last update, the Vuelta is done, the game is over. It has been the weirdest year of any of our lives, and the cycling season was a strange one too. Definitely a comfort at times in its offer of escape to familiarity, and amazingly they managed to fit in almost all of the post-(first)lockdown races, save for the notable canclelations of Amstel Gold and Paris-Roubaix. The Vuelta went off amazingly well in terms of covid protection, giving some hope that even if there is some time in getting out an effective vaccine, racing next year could proceed in a way close to normal. So, what happened in the last week?

This Week's Top Scorers


RankTeamPoints this week
1HelgeBlendet871
2Sestriere699
3Koronin692
4Salvarani691
5CQPlayer7373679

Although the season ended with GC points for a grand tour, scores were slightly more depressed than the average GT GC week. Part of that was because nobody picked the already-expensive Primoz Roglic, who nonetheless managed to score 3000 points from the shortened season! Pogacar was the only other rider over 2000; if Roglic hadn't crashed out of the Dauphine he might have been above 3300!

But Roglic isn't a team in this game, so that's enough talking about him, and one team in this game stood head and shoulders above the rest this week. HelgeBlendet ends the year with a bang, taking back-to-back weekly wins, and winning the week by over 170 points. HB was one of 5 teams who got 352 points from Hugh Carthy's big breakout, as well as one of 9 teams that benefitted from 112 points from George Bennett's continuing solid year. Gino Mader came good with 106 points as well, and HB's team got some points chipped in from Soler, Chaves, and Kanter. Sestriere finished behind in 2nd, having both Carthy and Mader over 100 points, and some good results contributed by Cort, Zimmerman, and Valgren as well. Koronin rounds out the podium one point ahead of Salvarani, with 241 from Enric Mas, and 150 points from the unique pick of the 40-year old Alejandro Valverde, who finally seems to be fading but still managed a GT top 10.

This Week's High Movers

RankTeamUp/down
1CQPlayer7373(+29)
2Sestriere(+18)
3HelgeBlendet(+17)
4Riverside(+16)
4Falze(+16)

This table is also a blowout this week, with CQPlayer7373 jumping a huge 29 spots on the very last week of the competition. Carthy, Bennett, and Soler are the big scorers for that team. Sestriere is twice a bridesmaid, and HelgeBlendet doubles up on the podium as well.

Green Jersey Competition

RankTeamTotal
1Jakob747279.7
2ChrisDK227
3bminchow219
4Wallenquist186
5BlueRoads178

I mentioned last week that this contest was sealed up, with Jakob747 far enough ahead that nobody could mathematically catch up this week. And in fact, no spots in the top 5 changed around in the final week at all; bminchow got 9 points for tying for 11th on the week, but didn't move up any spots. Congratulations once again to Jakob747!

Top 10 Overall

RankUp/downTeamPoints
1(-)10010
2(-)Wallenquist9520
3(+1)Object9173
4(+2)BlueRoads9027
5(-2)Nyssinator9000
6(-1)Lortnoc8938
7(+5)Sneekes8843
8(-1)EvansIsTheBest8784
9(+4)Hugo Koblet8714
10(+7)Northerner8698

It looked pretty good for bminchow last week, and indeed their team pulled through, even picking up 208 points on Wallenquist this week. That is almost equal to the 207 points scored by their team's highest scorer on the week, David De La Cruz, owned by 7 teams. And that type of timely point-scoring is key to the win - good picks plus good luck is a good formula to win. And indeed, bminchow had a solid combo of rare picks that panned out - most especially the two must-haves at the very top of the charts in Wout Van Aert (11 teams, 1702 points at a cost of 898) and Joao Almeida (19 teams, 1114 points at a cost of 112). As a counterpoint to show that it's truly a team game with 33 riders, there were misses like bminchow's second-most expensive rider Giulio Ciccone (unique pick, got 352 points at a cost of 686). But those were few and far between, and more than made up for with solid picks that turned out well like Kelderman, Bouhanni, Eekhoff, Simmons, Yates, Kwiatkowski, etc etc. Congratulations to bminchow for joining the winners' roll! As a nice bonus, their team juuuust made it over the round number milestone of 10,000 points, the only team to do so.

Wallenquist had a great year as well, and is rewarded with a solid second place. Their team included Van Aert and Almeida as well (I said they were necessary, didn't I?), and garnered solid contributions from riders like SK Andersen, Lennard Kamna, and Andrea Bagioli. Object overtakes Nyssinator for the last spot on the podium on the final week, thanks to riders like Sepp Kuss and Richie Porte (and of course Almeida, although no WVA).

The lower parts of the top 10 were hotly contested, with every spot moving around on the last week. It was a dogfight in the lower part of the top 10, with 114 points separating 8th from 14th place in the end. As it shakes out, Sneekes, Hugo Koblet, and Northerner enter the top 10 on the final week, while Nathanptz, Londonpat (the two of them tie for 11th!) and team skidmark (sob sob) fall out.

Thanks for playing once again in this wild year, everyone! Hope to see you back for 2021, wishing you the best until then.

spreadsheet at dropbox

ps. I'll continue the discussion of next year's rules and lay out a post with the parameters on this thread in the upcoming days. The new game thread will be up in about a month.
 
I've read the discussion about the team value for next year, and there are some very good posts in this thread. I've also crunched some numbers myself and if we were to go by math, the budget should be reduced to something like 4100.

The total amount of cq-points handed out the last five years are:

2020: 149769
2019: 277655
2018: 279075
2017: 276316
2016: 265169

2020 distributed 55% of the average of the four previous years - scaling that down to the 7500 team maximum, would mean 4125 points to spend in 2021.

Armchair's approach is also interesting. Here's what he said (with the newest 2020-numbers added in): 7500 points shared between 33 riders gives an average spend of 227 points. 227 at the end of 2019 would place a rider in 300th place. 300th in the current rankings is earned by 123 points. 123 x 33 is 4059 points (or 54% of the 7500 budget).

However, for this to be a "fair" method (which would aim at teams scoring roughly the same points as teams did in the previous season for comparison measures), we would have to be back to a normal season in 2021 which, let's face it, probably isn't very likely. Tour Down Under has already been cancelled, and we might see other cancellations as well - we have no idea at the moment.

Personally, I think we should just go with a 7500 budget to keep it in the spirit of the game - and because we don't know how the 2021-season will look like.
 
Thanks for hosting once again, skidmark!

Back to back Top of the Week is definitely a great way to end a strange season. Inside Top20 overall is also better than expected. Looking forward to next year, however that one might shape up in the end.
 
Thank you skidmark!! This has been the first time I played and to be able to play it was the reason I opened a cnf account in the first place. It has been fun and I can't believe I ended up so high. Now I'm very excited about the next time, eager to improve and very afraid to fail.

Congratulations to bminchow and Wallenquist, who are not only first and second but also the moral winners with Hodeg on their teams, who hardly brought them any points but obviously acted as a kind of lucky charm.
 
Skidmark, I got mad respect for all the effort you put into this game while running it year after year - so I just wanna reach out and say thank you and that I truly appreciate all of your efforts.

Congratulation to bminchow for taking the overall honors. Enjoy the well-deserved laurels and I look forward to competing against you next year, as you defend your title.

A shout-out also to Wallenquist who has been putting in work for a long time with his junior blog. Congrats on second place! Enjoy following Vuelta al Ecuador btw where we finally after a while will get to see super-talent Brayan Obando among the elite, now racing for Eagle Bikes. :p
 
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