Regarding collective wisdom. Later when there is actual data I can consider adding it to the team page or something, so you can at least compare a selected team versus the collective wisdom team. Could be nice (not sure yet!)
- Mar 19, 2009
- 2,080
- 505
- 13,080
Okay, my only obvious miss was Bagioli, who I didn't notice.. possibly wouldn't have picked him anyway, though.
But I have to ask what the Behrens hype is all about? I never really paid any attention to him, but was his WC win (which I granted didn't watch) really that impressive that it swayed ppl? Remember how Baroncinis first year post-wc was? And that was an impressive win IMO.
But I have to ask what the Behrens hype is all about? I never really paid any attention to him, but was his WC win (which I granted didn't watch) really that impressive that it swayed ppl? Remember how Baroncinis first year post-wc was? And that was an impressive win IMO.
- Nov 16, 2013
- 25,929
- 26,557
- 28,180
- May 14, 2009
- 61
- 4
- 8,685
I picked Behrens because of how highly they talked about him in the Laterne Rouge podcast. Wouldnt have picked him otherwise as I would think a rider of his stature would be more suited to a few years under the belt to be competitive among the pros.
Read an article, where his U23 coach says, that he will become certainly one of the best riders in the world.
That was enough for me to pick him..
- Dec 31, 2017
- 1,288
- 825
- 12,680
- May 5, 2010
- 49,668
- 28,060
- 28,180
It worked just fine. Like I said, I just didn't want to drop one of my other riders in order to squeeze him in.
And if I had decided to squeeze in a more expensive rider, I would have been much more likely to add both Mads P and his lidl brother, and then Just Pedersen for free, in order to reach full Pedersen potential.
I see you don't have Vingegaard either; your hatred for people named 'Hansen' has not waned?
I understand.
I prefer yo-yos instead.
And no handball players who scores against my country
GIven Hellemose made a miraculous comeback to WT, I'm waiting for the second coming of the Jesper Hansen-show.
- May 5, 2010
- 49,668
- 28,060
- 28,180
That seems significantly less likely, considering that he's quite a bit older than Hellemose, and actually retired.
- Dec 28, 2010
- 3,919
- 2,741
- 19,180
I will comment on some other posts later, but first, my own team (this will probably be a loooong post!).
As the record holder for most 2nd places (three times!), can I finally get that elusive win? As I said pre-reveal, I've had my 2025 team more or less ready since October bar the final shuffles, and most of it kinda picked itself.
I'll put my actual team in BOLD, and people I strongly considered in ITALICS. This might be a bit messy and confusing if you're just skimming through, but I guess if you just want to see my team you'll find it in the spreadsheet, and if you want my thoughts you put up with the mess.
VINGEGAARD HANSEN Jonas (1760 points, 33 picks) - An absolute no-brainer for me, considering the (lack of) options in the medium price range this year and the abundance of good cheap picks. I'm baffled that he's not more popular. I just need him to clear 2000 points to be a good pick, and likely he'll score quite a bit more with at least one extra one-weeker and another GT. I was always sure the Giro rumours were never going to happen this year, so I was never worried about that either. In any case, there's almost no risk. For almost every race he does, he's more likely to win it than not, which is insane for this game.
VAN AERT Wout (1259 points, 60 picks) - The first iteration of my team had Vingegaard and Van Aert, because they are the clear and obvious ones, right? WVA was never quite as obvious to me though. His level has markedly declined since 2022, and despite looking great again in the recent Vuelta, I'm not convinced he can get back to his 2021/2022 level of consistent beastlyness. There there's the crashes and injuries. He says he's still feeling the pain from his Vuelta injury when racing CX. Then there's the eggs/basket distribution. If the classics season goes wrong, that's him pretty much done for as a great pick, especially with two GTs (partly in service of both a sprinter and a climber) and no Worlds on the cards. He can of course still be a great pick, but I'm really surprised that the popularity between him and Vingegaard isn't inverted.
PIDCOCK Thomas (996 points, 1 pick) - When Pidcock was announced for Q36.5, I put him in my team instead of Van Aert. At some point he's gonna do the Alaphilippe 2000 point season, and potential race program is a big factor for me in this game. With his new team, he has all the opportunities to farm points in races that are perfect for him. WT one-dayers, one-week stage races, Italian autumn classics and various other one-dayers. No CX is also a plus. But his actual season plans haven't been released yet and you never know what he comes up with (MTB or no MTB?), and so quite recently I decided to go with a safer pick (see below). I've had Pidcock every year since 2021, and you better believe that when I finally drop him is when he finally delivers on all of his promise!
ALMEIDA Joao Pedro Gonçalves (988 points, 4 picks) - Mou the prophet says he's gonna improve! No, but seriously, I'm extremely pleased Almeida is such a rare pick. Even if he doesn't improve, there's still the fact that his level warranted more points in most of the races he did last year except the Tour. He was a domestique in the first part of the year, then would have won the Tour de Suisse bar team tactics, then left the Vuelta while in a good spot, then crashed at the Worlds. This year he'll be leader almost everywhere, and that really is everywhere! Look at that juicy schedule! Only downside is a bit of proneness to illness, but that's mitigated by the fact that he's good enough to podium basically every stage race he does pre-Tour, then he can top 5 the Tour even as a domestique, then who knows what he can do in the Vuelta, but it should be good. In any case, he's about as safe as they come in terms of expensive picks, and that's really what you want.
VINE Jay (464 points, 11 picks) - I was gonna pick him last year as my most expensive rider, then shortly before deadline I dropped him because he was not defending his TDU win. Turned out to be a good decision in all sorts of ways. But now he's doing the TDU again. In the meantime he has developed into a world-class TT specialist. In 2023 he got almost all of his 586 points in January. In 2024 he got zero points in January, but managed to amass 464 in the rest of the year despite being out for most of it. I think he's very underrated, and very glad he's so rare.
PLAPP Lucas (423 points, 20 picks) - Third year in a row that he's on my team, so I've been following him closely and I've become a bit of a fan. He crashed out of the TDU when likely to get a big haul of points there last year, and then basically didn't score any points after Paris-Nice. I think he's secretly becoming a top tier TT-er, and just like Vine he could be close to breaking even in January already. Then surely he must have better luck for the rest of the year than he's had for the past couple of seasons.
PENHOËT Paul (415 points, 15 picks) - The top sprinter on FDJ usually scores roughly 1000 points a season. Penhoët was out for almost half the season, and still scored 400+, so that kinda checks out. He's incredibly consistent and position-savvy, and will still do a lot of French races even if he gets an all-round tougher schedule with a possible first GT. He wasn't happy with his results/performances last year, so that indicates that he believes he can do better.
MAGNIER Paul (405 points, 37 picks) - Scoring 405 points by being a complete beast in the very few pro races he did last year? I'll have some more of that, thank you very much. Actually thought he would be a bit more rare, but I guess other people have also seen what I've seen. I said before last year's game that Magnier (who I against my better judgement actually didn't pick) was my top candidate for a potential new De Lie. That feeling has just been reinforced over the past year and I'm happy he's still so 'cheap'.
The four riders above were really the only ones in the 400-950 range that I was attracted to (except having Ciccone in my very first draft and looking a little bit at Gall). Guys like Yates, Nys, Ganna, Gregoire, Hindley, Healy, Tarling and Pithie were never really seriously considered.
DUNBAR Edward (342 points, 7 picks) - Dunbar was part of the puzzle to fill the last few spots on the team. I had an awkward amount of points left, which wasn't enough for some guys I wanted and too much for some other guys I wanted, so I had to chuck in a mid-range guy that I wasn't overly keen on to make it all work. I had Quinn Simmons as that guy for a while, but landed on Dunbar in the end. He has had a lot of bad luck at Jayco, and showed some good things when healthy, so he's at least quite safe to improve a bit on his cost with a rather high ceiling if things go really well.
RICCITELLO Matthew (333 points, 17 picks) - Not the first name on my team sheet, but I've warmed to him after including him quite late in the process. He's a bit similar to my Onley, Poole and Tiberi picks from last year, who were all quite successful for me. I'm also encouraged by Riccitello saying in interviews that he wasn't surprised by his Tour de Suisse level, and he believed he was good enough for a possible top 5 or so in the Vuelta when he started the race.
HAYTER Ethan (263 points, 58 picks) - Hayter last year was one of the more frustrating experiences I've had with this game. Apparently I'm a masochist, so I'm coming back for more. Unfortunately Lefevere is not around anymore to kick the backside of riders not performing, but hopefully Hayter will become a regular Het Nieuwsblad reader. In all seriousness though, Hayter's ceiling is a bit too high to leave out.
JAKOBSEN Fabio (189 points, 31 picks) - He was the likely popular guy I mentioned I was torn about in a post a few days ago. Putting him and Dinham in for Bisiaux and Kajamini would have made my team infinitely more boring, but it would have hit exactly 7500. Jakobsen has done good things for my CQ teams in the past, but pure sprinters are not really all the rage these days. Even if he improves, he's still gonna have the problem of bad positioning and a bad train. I'm just not excited enough about him, so I'm taking my chances without him.
LAFAY Victor (182 points, 36 picks) - Not able to ride until July, Lafay was one of the first ones on my longlist. His final part of the season managed the rare feat of giving me good reason to trust in a good 2025 without making him way too expensive. Also AG2R magic.
SOSA CUERVO Ivan Ramiro (177 points, 3 picks) - Was one of the last cuts from my team. I'm surprised he's only picked three times, but I also realize he's a very typical me pick and maybe not your average popular pick. Having a full season of only those small climby races that he always does well in can see him score quite heavily, but there's also a chance he's kinda done.
UIJTDEBROEKS Cian (176 points, 80 picks) - Ugh... I was unconvinced last year, and thank God for that. I'm also unconvinced now, but he's one of those defensive picks you just gotta put up with. And his popularity has proven me right about that.
NORDHAGEN Jørgen (165 points, 52 picks) - I've probably known for about three years that no matter what, I was gonna pick Nordhagen for the CQ game when he turned pro. It's just a bonus that he's kept himself somewhat cheap by missing some big U23 races, while at the same time looking like a million dollars racing with a lot of energy on flat-ish courses in Belgium and Germany.
WIDAR Jarno (162 points, 37 picks) - Was humming and hawing a bit over Widar, but decided not to pick him. He could be a great pick, but it's very dependent on whether he does well in the early season pro races. From April onwards it's hard to see him do significantly better than last year. With all the U23 races he's down to do, there's not much room for a Sibiu Tour or similar. It'll be slightly annoying if he gets 500 points, but I don't think he is ever likely to get much more than that, and as such he's not a complete must-have.
STAUNE-MITTET Johannes (150 points, 32 picks) - I still believe. I believe a bit less, but I still believe.
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao (137 points, 71 picks) - A bit like Cian in that you just have to have him. And he reminds me of my Bernal pick last year. Even if TGH doesn't reach his old heights, he did have the level for much more points last year.
DE SCHUYTENEER Steffen (125 points, 20 picks) - Would have been nice if he didn't go to China to make himself both more expensive and more well-known, but I'll still take him. Could already be good enough to be second or third sprinter at Lotto, and that should mean quite a lot of points opportunities. He also thinks he's a bit of a classics guy.
TORRES ARIAS Pablo (122 points, 70 picks) - I saw him being a beast of a domestique in Giro d'Abruzzo, and put him on my longlist immediately. Last year I picked Del Toro, Christen and Morgado despite not being convinced that all of them would deliver, but I'm glad I did. There is a world where Torres also doesn't quite deliver yet, but he obviously has to be in my team.
BEHRENS Niklas (115 points, 46 picks) - I didn't actually consider him very strongly at all, I just wanted to mention him here because he's the U23 champ and very popular. My thinking with Behrens is that he's not quite fast enough to get sprint results at pro level and not punchy enough to get hilly results. Winning a tough race like the U23 Worlds because you're hard as nails is impressive, but that 'skill' isn't guaranteed to be immediately transferable to getting results at pro level. Svrcek can attest to that.
KÄMNA Lennard (108 points, 63 picks) - A mixture of a fanboy pick and a defensive pick in case he recovers quickly. Didn't dare to drop him. Also because as a bit of a Kämna fan, that would have diminished my happiness if he returns to form after the crash.
BAGIOLI Andrea (106 points, 56 picks) - I've been a Bagioli fan since he was a junior, but oh boy is he a frustrating rider to like. When I finally dropped him from my CQ teams he actually delivered a high-scoring season (but still mostly due to one week of form). Again I'm not convinced, but it's a bit too risky to leave him out.
LOUVEL Matîs (101 points, 12 picks) - Half a season on the sidelines, and also some issues the year before, but the talent is obvious. Also gets results quite consistently in smaller races when things are as they should. His new team seems a good fit too.
KAJAMINI Florian Samuel (96 points, 11 picks) - Decided quite early on that I was just gonna take a punt on him, a bit like I did with Tiberi last year. Apart from that, he's not really comparable to Tiberi of course, but I like my Italians and Kajamini is among the more exciting of them. He seems to be a results-getter, and I think he will have a lot of opportunities for that at Astana despite a lot of similar rider types. But the Ulissis, Higuitas and Velascos will probably do bigger races, and if my gut feeling is right, Kajamini should be better than some of the other climby/hilly types that will do smaller races for the team.
DEL GROSSO Tibor (95 points, 22 picks) - Seems very highly rated in the Netherlands, is bossing the U23 CX scene and did really well on the road last year too. Was quite a late inclusion, because I didn't properly get my eyes up for him until recently, but I like this pick. He's gonna do a proper road season this year, and Alpecin's calendar should be perfect for him especially now that Laurance is gone.
BAX Sjoerd (86 points, 8 picks) - Surprisingly rare, but again, like I mentioned with Sosa, he might just be a typical me pick. His argument that he has won 100% of the races where he got his chance at UAE (which is one race) shows some confidence, and he won't lack opportunities at Q36.5.
CAVAGNA Remi (80 points, 52 picks) - Was floating about in the final shuffles, but didn't make it in the end. He will probably get some good results like he almost always does, and will probably do well in the Poitou-Charentes tour, but his road to good results is just a bit too unreliable to be an absolute certainty for my team. And he would have been frustrating to have if he continued to only do the occasional good TT.
KRON Andreas Lorentz (68 points, 70 picks) - No-brainer pick, and that shows in his popularity. Even in his extremely disrupted 2024 season he had time to show that he was still good (despite not being rewarded with many points) and should feast on the 1.1 races with Uno-X while also being a bit of a threat in bigger ones.
BISIAUX Léo (63 points, 37 picks) - He got what was basically the final spot on my team. I played with some other combinations instead of him and Kajamini, like Widar + someone cheap or Jakobsen + Dinham. But Bisiaux, who I've been a bit hyped about since he was a 1st year junior, just seemed more exciting even if it could be a bit too early for him. He was also in danger of being cut for Faure Prost or Pollefliet or August, but hopefully his stayer ability translates to the races.
VADER Milan (52 points, 26 picks) - The Pidcock transfer didn't exactly improve the prospects of Vader, and there's also the worry that even though he complains about lack of freedom at Visma, he didn't really perform when he had it either, at least not last year. But the upside is just too big to leave him out.
VERMEERSCH Florian (51 points, 74 picks) - Another clearly obvious pick. It helps that I picked him for my Emerging riders CQ game when his career total was only 16 points (as one of only two managers), so I feel a bit like he's 'my guy'.
KAMP Alexander (48 points, 22 picks) - A bit of an enigma, but Intermache are good with these guys, and I like to believe he has enough opportunities and motivation to do well before the atmosphere inevitably turns sour at some point.
GLOAG Thomas (46 points, 62 picks) - Returning from my team last year, and one of the first one the team sheet. Let's not miss more or less the entire season because of crashes this time, shall we?
SENECHAL Florian (37 points, 40 picks) - A somewhat late inclusion, and it's not a guarantee that he'll return to a really high level, but I'd love to see him do well again. And with all sorts of fast guys leaving the team, he shouldn't lack opportunities. He's also not ancient yet.
VAN BAARLE Dylan (35 points, 75 picks) - He has stayed in my team since the very first draft, but he was considered for getting the boot late on. He has always relied on a few big results for his points, and Visma have more and more guys that could be ahead in likelihood of achieving those. But when he wasn't injured last year he still looked strong, and the possibility of a Tratnik 2024 kind of scoring scenario is a bit too big to leave Van Baarle out, I think.
TULETT Ben (27 points, 56 picks) - Another obvious one. Yes, Visma is stacked, but there are always enough opportunities for riders of Tulett's calibre to get 300-400 points in every team, basically.
HELLEMOSE Asbjørn (0 points, 13 picks) - Didn't pick him, but part of me really wanted to. I picked him for an Emerging riders CQ game a few years ago as a unique pick, and although he didn't quite emerge, it would have been nice to have extra reason to cheer for him this year. And although I see a scenario where he turns out to be a decent pick (a few 8th places in races like Slovenia, which Jayco do quite a lot of), I just think the risk is a bit big for a lack of very good upside.
PHILIPSEN Albert Withen (0 points, 70 picks) - He didn't. So I picked him.
SEIXAS Paul (0 points, 66 picks) - As has been mentioned several times in connection to this game, only four first-year U23s have been great/good picks: Evenepoel, Tarling, Uijtdebroeks and Adrien Costa. AWP and Seixas have the possibility of breaking into that list, I think. As for other great first-years, like Finn, it will statistically not happen when they don't turn pro directly. Costa is the only one who did that, and that was a bit of a special case because he got to ride the 2.HC Tour of Utah where he got a lot of cheap points for 2nd place.
Returning to what I said at the top about hoping to finally win this game; when looking at the strategies of other teams and the lack of popularity of some of my picks that I'm really confident in, I think this year is one of my best chances ever to get the big W. Still need a good portion of luck, of course, but that caveat is always a given.
I have a similar feeling as I had at the start of 2016 when I returned to the game with a very analytical approach and was very confident about my team (finished 4th), and similar to 2018 when I was also very confident in my strategy (finished 2nd). My approach to making my teams has actually switched more towards gut feeling and pattern recognition than rigourous analysis over the years, but that seems to work equally well for me.
As the record holder for most 2nd places (three times!), can I finally get that elusive win? As I said pre-reveal, I've had my 2025 team more or less ready since October bar the final shuffles, and most of it kinda picked itself.
I'll put my actual team in BOLD, and people I strongly considered in ITALICS. This might be a bit messy and confusing if you're just skimming through, but I guess if you just want to see my team you'll find it in the spreadsheet, and if you want my thoughts you put up with the mess.
VINGEGAARD HANSEN Jonas (1760 points, 33 picks) - An absolute no-brainer for me, considering the (lack of) options in the medium price range this year and the abundance of good cheap picks. I'm baffled that he's not more popular. I just need him to clear 2000 points to be a good pick, and likely he'll score quite a bit more with at least one extra one-weeker and another GT. I was always sure the Giro rumours were never going to happen this year, so I was never worried about that either. In any case, there's almost no risk. For almost every race he does, he's more likely to win it than not, which is insane for this game.
VAN AERT Wout (1259 points, 60 picks) - The first iteration of my team had Vingegaard and Van Aert, because they are the clear and obvious ones, right? WVA was never quite as obvious to me though. His level has markedly declined since 2022, and despite looking great again in the recent Vuelta, I'm not convinced he can get back to his 2021/2022 level of consistent beastlyness. There there's the crashes and injuries. He says he's still feeling the pain from his Vuelta injury when racing CX. Then there's the eggs/basket distribution. If the classics season goes wrong, that's him pretty much done for as a great pick, especially with two GTs (partly in service of both a sprinter and a climber) and no Worlds on the cards. He can of course still be a great pick, but I'm really surprised that the popularity between him and Vingegaard isn't inverted.
PIDCOCK Thomas (996 points, 1 pick) - When Pidcock was announced for Q36.5, I put him in my team instead of Van Aert. At some point he's gonna do the Alaphilippe 2000 point season, and potential race program is a big factor for me in this game. With his new team, he has all the opportunities to farm points in races that are perfect for him. WT one-dayers, one-week stage races, Italian autumn classics and various other one-dayers. No CX is also a plus. But his actual season plans haven't been released yet and you never know what he comes up with (MTB or no MTB?), and so quite recently I decided to go with a safer pick (see below). I've had Pidcock every year since 2021, and you better believe that when I finally drop him is when he finally delivers on all of his promise!
ALMEIDA Joao Pedro Gonçalves (988 points, 4 picks) - Mou the prophet says he's gonna improve! No, but seriously, I'm extremely pleased Almeida is such a rare pick. Even if he doesn't improve, there's still the fact that his level warranted more points in most of the races he did last year except the Tour. He was a domestique in the first part of the year, then would have won the Tour de Suisse bar team tactics, then left the Vuelta while in a good spot, then crashed at the Worlds. This year he'll be leader almost everywhere, and that really is everywhere! Look at that juicy schedule! Only downside is a bit of proneness to illness, but that's mitigated by the fact that he's good enough to podium basically every stage race he does pre-Tour, then he can top 5 the Tour even as a domestique, then who knows what he can do in the Vuelta, but it should be good. In any case, he's about as safe as they come in terms of expensive picks, and that's really what you want.
VINE Jay (464 points, 11 picks) - I was gonna pick him last year as my most expensive rider, then shortly before deadline I dropped him because he was not defending his TDU win. Turned out to be a good decision in all sorts of ways. But now he's doing the TDU again. In the meantime he has developed into a world-class TT specialist. In 2023 he got almost all of his 586 points in January. In 2024 he got zero points in January, but managed to amass 464 in the rest of the year despite being out for most of it. I think he's very underrated, and very glad he's so rare.
PLAPP Lucas (423 points, 20 picks) - Third year in a row that he's on my team, so I've been following him closely and I've become a bit of a fan. He crashed out of the TDU when likely to get a big haul of points there last year, and then basically didn't score any points after Paris-Nice. I think he's secretly becoming a top tier TT-er, and just like Vine he could be close to breaking even in January already. Then surely he must have better luck for the rest of the year than he's had for the past couple of seasons.
PENHOËT Paul (415 points, 15 picks) - The top sprinter on FDJ usually scores roughly 1000 points a season. Penhoët was out for almost half the season, and still scored 400+, so that kinda checks out. He's incredibly consistent and position-savvy, and will still do a lot of French races even if he gets an all-round tougher schedule with a possible first GT. He wasn't happy with his results/performances last year, so that indicates that he believes he can do better.
MAGNIER Paul (405 points, 37 picks) - Scoring 405 points by being a complete beast in the very few pro races he did last year? I'll have some more of that, thank you very much. Actually thought he would be a bit more rare, but I guess other people have also seen what I've seen. I said before last year's game that Magnier (who I against my better judgement actually didn't pick) was my top candidate for a potential new De Lie. That feeling has just been reinforced over the past year and I'm happy he's still so 'cheap'.
The four riders above were really the only ones in the 400-950 range that I was attracted to (except having Ciccone in my very first draft and looking a little bit at Gall). Guys like Yates, Nys, Ganna, Gregoire, Hindley, Healy, Tarling and Pithie were never really seriously considered.
DUNBAR Edward (342 points, 7 picks) - Dunbar was part of the puzzle to fill the last few spots on the team. I had an awkward amount of points left, which wasn't enough for some guys I wanted and too much for some other guys I wanted, so I had to chuck in a mid-range guy that I wasn't overly keen on to make it all work. I had Quinn Simmons as that guy for a while, but landed on Dunbar in the end. He has had a lot of bad luck at Jayco, and showed some good things when healthy, so he's at least quite safe to improve a bit on his cost with a rather high ceiling if things go really well.
RICCITELLO Matthew (333 points, 17 picks) - Not the first name on my team sheet, but I've warmed to him after including him quite late in the process. He's a bit similar to my Onley, Poole and Tiberi picks from last year, who were all quite successful for me. I'm also encouraged by Riccitello saying in interviews that he wasn't surprised by his Tour de Suisse level, and he believed he was good enough for a possible top 5 or so in the Vuelta when he started the race.
HAYTER Ethan (263 points, 58 picks) - Hayter last year was one of the more frustrating experiences I've had with this game. Apparently I'm a masochist, so I'm coming back for more. Unfortunately Lefevere is not around anymore to kick the backside of riders not performing, but hopefully Hayter will become a regular Het Nieuwsblad reader. In all seriousness though, Hayter's ceiling is a bit too high to leave out.
JAKOBSEN Fabio (189 points, 31 picks) - He was the likely popular guy I mentioned I was torn about in a post a few days ago. Putting him and Dinham in for Bisiaux and Kajamini would have made my team infinitely more boring, but it would have hit exactly 7500. Jakobsen has done good things for my CQ teams in the past, but pure sprinters are not really all the rage these days. Even if he improves, he's still gonna have the problem of bad positioning and a bad train. I'm just not excited enough about him, so I'm taking my chances without him.
LAFAY Victor (182 points, 36 picks) - Not able to ride until July, Lafay was one of the first ones on my longlist. His final part of the season managed the rare feat of giving me good reason to trust in a good 2025 without making him way too expensive. Also AG2R magic.
SOSA CUERVO Ivan Ramiro (177 points, 3 picks) - Was one of the last cuts from my team. I'm surprised he's only picked three times, but I also realize he's a very typical me pick and maybe not your average popular pick. Having a full season of only those small climby races that he always does well in can see him score quite heavily, but there's also a chance he's kinda done.
UIJTDEBROEKS Cian (176 points, 80 picks) - Ugh... I was unconvinced last year, and thank God for that. I'm also unconvinced now, but he's one of those defensive picks you just gotta put up with. And his popularity has proven me right about that.
NORDHAGEN Jørgen (165 points, 52 picks) - I've probably known for about three years that no matter what, I was gonna pick Nordhagen for the CQ game when he turned pro. It's just a bonus that he's kept himself somewhat cheap by missing some big U23 races, while at the same time looking like a million dollars racing with a lot of energy on flat-ish courses in Belgium and Germany.
WIDAR Jarno (162 points, 37 picks) - Was humming and hawing a bit over Widar, but decided not to pick him. He could be a great pick, but it's very dependent on whether he does well in the early season pro races. From April onwards it's hard to see him do significantly better than last year. With all the U23 races he's down to do, there's not much room for a Sibiu Tour or similar. It'll be slightly annoying if he gets 500 points, but I don't think he is ever likely to get much more than that, and as such he's not a complete must-have.
STAUNE-MITTET Johannes (150 points, 32 picks) - I still believe. I believe a bit less, but I still believe.
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao (137 points, 71 picks) - A bit like Cian in that you just have to have him. And he reminds me of my Bernal pick last year. Even if TGH doesn't reach his old heights, he did have the level for much more points last year.
DE SCHUYTENEER Steffen (125 points, 20 picks) - Would have been nice if he didn't go to China to make himself both more expensive and more well-known, but I'll still take him. Could already be good enough to be second or third sprinter at Lotto, and that should mean quite a lot of points opportunities. He also thinks he's a bit of a classics guy.
TORRES ARIAS Pablo (122 points, 70 picks) - I saw him being a beast of a domestique in Giro d'Abruzzo, and put him on my longlist immediately. Last year I picked Del Toro, Christen and Morgado despite not being convinced that all of them would deliver, but I'm glad I did. There is a world where Torres also doesn't quite deliver yet, but he obviously has to be in my team.
BEHRENS Niklas (115 points, 46 picks) - I didn't actually consider him very strongly at all, I just wanted to mention him here because he's the U23 champ and very popular. My thinking with Behrens is that he's not quite fast enough to get sprint results at pro level and not punchy enough to get hilly results. Winning a tough race like the U23 Worlds because you're hard as nails is impressive, but that 'skill' isn't guaranteed to be immediately transferable to getting results at pro level. Svrcek can attest to that.
KÄMNA Lennard (108 points, 63 picks) - A mixture of a fanboy pick and a defensive pick in case he recovers quickly. Didn't dare to drop him. Also because as a bit of a Kämna fan, that would have diminished my happiness if he returns to form after the crash.
BAGIOLI Andrea (106 points, 56 picks) - I've been a Bagioli fan since he was a junior, but oh boy is he a frustrating rider to like. When I finally dropped him from my CQ teams he actually delivered a high-scoring season (but still mostly due to one week of form). Again I'm not convinced, but it's a bit too risky to leave him out.
LOUVEL Matîs (101 points, 12 picks) - Half a season on the sidelines, and also some issues the year before, but the talent is obvious. Also gets results quite consistently in smaller races when things are as they should. His new team seems a good fit too.
KAJAMINI Florian Samuel (96 points, 11 picks) - Decided quite early on that I was just gonna take a punt on him, a bit like I did with Tiberi last year. Apart from that, he's not really comparable to Tiberi of course, but I like my Italians and Kajamini is among the more exciting of them. He seems to be a results-getter, and I think he will have a lot of opportunities for that at Astana despite a lot of similar rider types. But the Ulissis, Higuitas and Velascos will probably do bigger races, and if my gut feeling is right, Kajamini should be better than some of the other climby/hilly types that will do smaller races for the team.
DEL GROSSO Tibor (95 points, 22 picks) - Seems very highly rated in the Netherlands, is bossing the U23 CX scene and did really well on the road last year too. Was quite a late inclusion, because I didn't properly get my eyes up for him until recently, but I like this pick. He's gonna do a proper road season this year, and Alpecin's calendar should be perfect for him especially now that Laurance is gone.
BAX Sjoerd (86 points, 8 picks) - Surprisingly rare, but again, like I mentioned with Sosa, he might just be a typical me pick. His argument that he has won 100% of the races where he got his chance at UAE (which is one race) shows some confidence, and he won't lack opportunities at Q36.5.
CAVAGNA Remi (80 points, 52 picks) - Was floating about in the final shuffles, but didn't make it in the end. He will probably get some good results like he almost always does, and will probably do well in the Poitou-Charentes tour, but his road to good results is just a bit too unreliable to be an absolute certainty for my team. And he would have been frustrating to have if he continued to only do the occasional good TT.
KRON Andreas Lorentz (68 points, 70 picks) - No-brainer pick, and that shows in his popularity. Even in his extremely disrupted 2024 season he had time to show that he was still good (despite not being rewarded with many points) and should feast on the 1.1 races with Uno-X while also being a bit of a threat in bigger ones.
BISIAUX Léo (63 points, 37 picks) - He got what was basically the final spot on my team. I played with some other combinations instead of him and Kajamini, like Widar + someone cheap or Jakobsen + Dinham. But Bisiaux, who I've been a bit hyped about since he was a 1st year junior, just seemed more exciting even if it could be a bit too early for him. He was also in danger of being cut for Faure Prost or Pollefliet or August, but hopefully his stayer ability translates to the races.
VADER Milan (52 points, 26 picks) - The Pidcock transfer didn't exactly improve the prospects of Vader, and there's also the worry that even though he complains about lack of freedom at Visma, he didn't really perform when he had it either, at least not last year. But the upside is just too big to leave him out.
VERMEERSCH Florian (51 points, 74 picks) - Another clearly obvious pick. It helps that I picked him for my Emerging riders CQ game when his career total was only 16 points (as one of only two managers), so I feel a bit like he's 'my guy'.
KAMP Alexander (48 points, 22 picks) - A bit of an enigma, but Intermache are good with these guys, and I like to believe he has enough opportunities and motivation to do well before the atmosphere inevitably turns sour at some point.
GLOAG Thomas (46 points, 62 picks) - Returning from my team last year, and one of the first one the team sheet. Let's not miss more or less the entire season because of crashes this time, shall we?
SENECHAL Florian (37 points, 40 picks) - A somewhat late inclusion, and it's not a guarantee that he'll return to a really high level, but I'd love to see him do well again. And with all sorts of fast guys leaving the team, he shouldn't lack opportunities. He's also not ancient yet.
VAN BAARLE Dylan (35 points, 75 picks) - He has stayed in my team since the very first draft, but he was considered for getting the boot late on. He has always relied on a few big results for his points, and Visma have more and more guys that could be ahead in likelihood of achieving those. But when he wasn't injured last year he still looked strong, and the possibility of a Tratnik 2024 kind of scoring scenario is a bit too big to leave Van Baarle out, I think.
TULETT Ben (27 points, 56 picks) - Another obvious one. Yes, Visma is stacked, but there are always enough opportunities for riders of Tulett's calibre to get 300-400 points in every team, basically.
HELLEMOSE Asbjørn (0 points, 13 picks) - Didn't pick him, but part of me really wanted to. I picked him for an Emerging riders CQ game a few years ago as a unique pick, and although he didn't quite emerge, it would have been nice to have extra reason to cheer for him this year. And although I see a scenario where he turns out to be a decent pick (a few 8th places in races like Slovenia, which Jayco do quite a lot of), I just think the risk is a bit big for a lack of very good upside.
PHILIPSEN Albert Withen (0 points, 70 picks) - He didn't. So I picked him.
SEIXAS Paul (0 points, 66 picks) - As has been mentioned several times in connection to this game, only four first-year U23s have been great/good picks: Evenepoel, Tarling, Uijtdebroeks and Adrien Costa. AWP and Seixas have the possibility of breaking into that list, I think. As for other great first-years, like Finn, it will statistically not happen when they don't turn pro directly. Costa is the only one who did that, and that was a bit of a special case because he got to ride the 2.HC Tour of Utah where he got a lot of cheap points for 2nd place.
Returning to what I said at the top about hoping to finally win this game; when looking at the strategies of other teams and the lack of popularity of some of my picks that I'm really confident in, I think this year is one of my best chances ever to get the big W. Still need a good portion of luck, of course, but that caveat is always a given.
I have a similar feeling as I had at the start of 2016 when I returned to the game with a very analytical approach and was very confident about my team (finished 4th), and similar to 2018 when I was also very confident in my strategy (finished 2nd). My approach to making my teams has actually switched more towards gut feeling and pattern recognition than rigourous analysis over the years, but that seems to work equally well for me.
- Apr 30, 2011
- 45,459
- 27,941
- 28,180
Mentally, I think Vingegaard is in a much better place (for this game) than Van Aert is, so I would gladly bet (for bragging rights or avatar) that he not only scores more, but that he will earn a greater profit in this game than Silver Pozzato will. At this point, I simply think Van Aert has tilted too hard and that he doesn't have the physical edge to make up for it.
- Aug 20, 2011
- 974
- 101
- 10,180
Very satisfied with my team despite being near the bottom of the popularity ranking (I like picking outsiders so no real surprise)! The only one I had overlooked of the popular picks is Tao G Hart, and he wouldn't have made the cut anyway. So I have five unique picks and 7 others picked by less than 10 teams to root for in 2025. Would probably have replaced Caleb Ewan if I knew that he wasn't listed for Jayco, but apart from that I still think that my team has every chance to do well in 2025. Would be interesting to hear if anyone actually considered any of my five unique picks:
Steff Cras
Kim Heiduk
Pavel Novak
Michele Gazzoli
Iker Mintegi
Steff Cras
Kim Heiduk
Pavel Novak
Michele Gazzoli
Iker Mintegi
- Oct 12, 2009
- 38
- 7
- 8,595
My team:
VAN AERT Wout
GANNA Filippo
YATES Simon
CICCONE Giulio
GALL Felix
MAGNIER Paul
HIGUITA GARCIA Sergio Andres
LUTSENKO Alexey
BUSATTO Francesco
HAYTER Ethan
VERNON Ethan
LAMPAERT Yves
KRAGH ANDERSEN Søren
LAFAY Victor
UIJTDEBROEKS Cian
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao
ENGELHARDT Felix
TORRES ARIAS Pablo
BEHRENS Niklas
KÄMNA Lennard
BAGIOLI Andrea
ARTZ Huub
CAVAGNA Rémi
KRON Andreas Lorentz
VADER Milan
VERMEERSCH Florian
KAMP Alexander
SCHELLING Ide
SENECHAL Florian
VAN BAARLE Dylan
GESBERT Elie
DINHAM Matthew
PHILIPSEN Albert Withen
VAN AERT Wout
GANNA Filippo
YATES Simon
CICCONE Giulio
GALL Felix
MAGNIER Paul
HIGUITA GARCIA Sergio Andres
LUTSENKO Alexey
BUSATTO Francesco
HAYTER Ethan
VERNON Ethan
LAMPAERT Yves
KRAGH ANDERSEN Søren
LAFAY Victor
UIJTDEBROEKS Cian
GEOGHEGAN HART Tao
ENGELHARDT Felix
TORRES ARIAS Pablo
BEHRENS Niklas
KÄMNA Lennard
BAGIOLI Andrea
ARTZ Huub
CAVAGNA Rémi
KRON Andreas Lorentz
VADER Milan
VERMEERSCH Florian
KAMP Alexander
SCHELLING Ide
SENECHAL Florian
VAN BAARLE Dylan
GESBERT Elie
DINHAM Matthew
PHILIPSEN Albert Withen
- Jan 29, 2020
- 786
- 1,718
- 8,180
- Mar 12, 2009
- 5,077
- 880
- 19,680
Still, it wasn't like he wasn't riding in the second part of the season. He was racing, but simply didn't perform. So that is part of the reason I'm wobbling on him. It's not that he isn't talented. I had him last season for a reason. I'm just not wanting to gamble on him taking the next big leap right away.
Another factor is that he's not really a climbing talent like Tiberi, Del Toro or Jan Christen etc. And he's not really a super sprinter from what I've seen so it's hard to really know what his ceiling is in terms of what types of races he can win. He was 5th in De Ronde but he consistently said that he didn't like cobbles and it seemed more that he was sent to the cobbled classics because UAE didn't have anyone else to send there. At least that's what it felt like at the time.
- Jul 16, 2011
- 3,240
- 791
- 15,680
Interesting, I have 13 of the collective wisdom team, but obviously only the cheaper ones ...
- Apr 30, 2011
- 45,459
- 27,941
- 28,180
I get too annoyed by how poorly I'd do, and I greatly enjoy the discussion in this thread regardless of having a team or not.
I also don't much like the process of creating a team the times I have participated. If I can get in a mood where I'd enjoy that, then it wouldn't matter how my team performed.
I'm greatly thankful for all the participants in this game, as I get to enjoy standing on the sidelines thanks to them.
Last edited:
- May 5, 2010
- 49,668
- 28,060
- 28,180
Hey, @Shakes.
I see Øxenberg is listed wrongly on the website.
It's HANSEN Peter Øxenberg, while it should be ØXENBERG HANSEN Peter.
I see Øxenberg is listed wrongly on the website.
It's HANSEN Peter Øxenberg, while it should be ØXENBERG HANSEN Peter.
- Sep 2, 2011
- 17,233
- 13,114
- 28,180
Way more impressive for me. It completely changed my perception of him as a rider.
Plus he's joining Visma.
Luckily that doesn't matter! Names were taken from CQRanking at some point but all data is just based on unique identifiers. Website just takes those into consideration and names are just for show.
Will change it though regardless, as on results people will look for Oxenberg and not Hansen
- Mar 12, 2009
- 5,077
- 880
- 19,680
One of the best riders of what though? I haven't really been able to put my finger on what type of rider he is. Is he a sprinter, or will he be a cobbled classics guy or just an attacking rider in general? He's not a climber by the looks of it so stage races and many classics are out of the question really.
That said I'm sure he will be a good enough pick. He can probably break 200 points easily. But is he this years Del Toro, breaking 800 points. I doubt it. Which is why I went for other riders instead.
I really tried. He was on my shortlist before I started constructing my team and was the rider I removed to bring the total down to 7,500. I am left with Caruso as my (young) old man.
- Mar 9, 2018
- 16
- 11
- 3,560
- Sep 20, 2017
- 11,500
- 21,526
- 28,180
Look at who he beat. Aside from Svrcek who seems to double his watt output whenever the U23 Worlds come along, it's one rider who's already been tearing it up against the pros after the other. And he just demolished them in a way Baroncini didn't. Finally, Baroncini spent about half of his first pro season on the asphalt rather than the bike which didn't help matters.
Oh, and he had done a grand total of three UCI races (including one NC) prior to 2024 because he's a late entrant to the sport, so every reason to believe in his potential development curve.
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