The 2026 CQ Ranking Manager Thread

Page 21 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Apr 26, 2019
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Simpler version made quickly:

Upcoming Races calendar is only updated at 10AM CET or so, need ot double check. So early morning it still states races that happened yesterday. Wasnt sure when PCS updates it so picked something later morning.
Thanks a lot! This is another magnificant feature!

When you have time, you can add perhaps also the 2025 cost of the rider in an extra column and sort the riders via the formula of @Armchair Cyclist.

But thank you already for what you have done so far!
 
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Apr 26, 2019
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Thanks, now the riders are sorted via the 2025 points, which is also ok, although I would prefer, that they would be sorted by @Armchair Cyclist formula. (45-|frequency-45|) x (price+100).
If this one is too complicated to implement, I would also be fine, if the sortation would be via the result of the Multiplication of Popularity and 2025 points.

Would be the cherry on the already wonderful cake!
 
Oct 15, 2017
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I found the overview in similarities quite interesting. For myself it was:


PlayerOverlap ridersOverlap Points
Hugo Koblet164 223
trackstand163 860
vickyriso133 811


PlayerOverlap ridersOverlap Points
skidmark203 690
bminchow183 416
MADRAZO173 729
 
Aug 29, 2011
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Wonder when/if we'll have two people picking the exact same team.

Btw, please continue sharing your own startlists in this thread too :D
 
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Jul 9, 2012
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Thanks, now the riders are sorted via the 2025 points, which is also ok, although I would prefer, that they would be sorted by @Armchair Cyclist formula. (45-|frequency-45|) x (price+100).
If this one is too complicated to implement, I would also be fine, if the sortation would be via the result of the Multiplication of Popularity and 2025 points.

Would be the cherry on the already wonderful cake!
Thanks, now the riders are sorted via the 2025 points, which is also ok, although I would prefer, that they would be sorted by @Armchair Cyclist formula. (45-|frequency-45|) x (price+100). ===> Please explain exact goal of the formula. As 45 seems to be a bit random/arbitrary as does the 100. What is the goal? We can multiply NrPicks with Points, how is this different? Ordering should be more or less the same, except for low priced riders as they benefit much more relatively with the 100.
 
Apr 26, 2019
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Thanks, now the riders are sorted via the 2025 points, which is also ok, although I would prefer, that they would be sorted by @Armchair Cyclist formula. (45-|frequency-45|) x (price+100). ===> Please explain exact goal of the formula. As 45 seems to be a bit random/arbitrary as does the 100. What is the goal? We can multiply NrPicks with Points, how is this different? Ordering should be more or less the same, except for low priced riders as they benefit much more relatively with the 100.
Hi, @Armchair Cyclist suggested this formula a few posts ago with a longer explanation. In my eyes his explanantion makes sense. The number 45 is half of our participating teams. He adds 100, so that also 0 pointer are taking into account.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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I'm not sure you can compare things in that way. We are comparing Remco's value split over 7 riders vs. just Remco on his own.
That would neglect that Remco still leaves you with 6 spaces. In the Remco scenario you paid 1929 and 1 spot for 2500 points while in the other scenario you paid 1958 and 7 spots for the same thing. I wouldn't consider cheaper picks going +30% as good as a 1929-cost pick going +30%.
Not sure what you mean by 6 spaces. The 7 riders was how many "failures" Salvarini could afford in his team and still win whereas if Remco is a "failure" at 2500 points then no other rider can afford to also be a failure or else the remaining riders will need to be even more profitable than the rest of Salvaranis team was.

As for the actual structure of the team and the argument that having an expensive pick frees you up to have several extra cheap picks with high potential return. That entirely depends on what cost of riders someone else would have in place of the more expensive one. It could be as little as cheaper riders that you replace to get Remco in plus a 0-coster in the worst case. That ultra cheap alternative rider can hardly compensate for Remco going 2500. And if it was an obvious 0-pointer like Seixas then they would already be in both teams regardless.

Even in my case if I was to make a quick swap to Remco I would have to give up on Seixas, O'Connor, Mas and Torres to afford him and it would leave me with 16 points to buy 3 other riders for. I'm not sure those 16 points would get me very far to compensate for 2500. Say they manage to score 100 points each then that would be 2800 points gained from 4 riders costing 1945. That's still only a 44% gain on 4 riders.

You could of course redo the entire team and cut some other 400+ cost riders in order to get more cash to upgrade those 3 extra spots with to the 100s at least. But that same reasoning applies to any team. You can have a team topped with a couple of 700 cost riders and then you spread the rest evenly at 200 points or so skipping over the 3-400 bracket. You don't need a super expensive pick to get that type of structure.

On top of all that, all the most obvious cheap picks like Zingle and his likes will already be in both teams so the extra cheap riders with high upsides will still be fairly deep cuts to find.
 
Hi, @Armchair Cyclist suggested this formula a few posts ago with a longer explanation. In my eyes his explanantion makes sense. The number 45 is half of our participating teams. He adds 100, so that also 0 pointer are taking into account.
That was intended for discussion: in a listing of riders as a startline, I think that either price order as Shakes has it, or alphabetical order, so that we can quickly look for any given individual, is much handier than an algorithm that might give some indication of relative importance, but is highly debatable.
 
Wonder when/if we'll have two people picking the exact same team.
It has happened, twice if I remember correctly, in GT CQ games: I gave the managers (I think) 100 points to choose an additional rider, whose points only counted in relation to breaking that tie.

But there is a very limited number of riders to select between in those games. I think they happened at the time when it was perm 9 from 198, maybe it was 8 from 176: very much higher probability of similarity than perm 33 from several thousand.
 
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Apr 26, 2019
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That was intended for discussion: in a listing of riders as a startline, I think that either price order as Shakes has it, or alphabetical order, so that we can quickly look for any given individual, is much handier than an algorithm that might give some indication of relative importance, but is highly debatable.
Ok, as the lists can be pretty long (Tour Down Under for example has nearly 70 entries), I would prefer that the riders are at least a bit sorted by importance. So price of 2025 as it is now is also ok for me. Alphabetic order I wouldn't prefer..
 
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Dec 31, 2017
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My team for Tour Down Under. 11 riders, so i expect great return.

But as i recall for this game it's not a great sign when you have so many riders starting in Australia as then tend to struggle a bit after return to Europe.

BUSATTO Francesco
DINHAM Matthew
GAUTHERAT Pierre
HAGENES Per Strand
O'CONNOR Ben
PITHIE Laurence
RACCAGNI NOVIERO Andrea
TUCKWELL Luke
VAN EETVELT Lennert
VAN UDEN Casper
ZANA Filippo
 
Apr 26, 2019
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Interesting to see, that three picks of the game also participate in the Pune Grand tour.
That´s something, I would never have thought of, if we didn't have this new great feature. :D

Btw.: Does the fact that the Vuelta al Tachira is not listed mean that no pick is participating in the race, or does the list only include races that have not started yet?
 
Dec 12, 2010
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Not sure what you mean by 6 spaces. The 7 riders was how many "failures" Salvarini could afford in his team and still win whereas if Remco is a "failure" at 2500 points then no other rider can afford to also be a failure or else the remaining riders will need to be even more profitable than the rest of Salvaranis team was.

As for the actual structure of the team and the argument that having an expensive pick frees you up to have several extra cheap picks with high potential return. That entirely depends on what cost of riders someone else would have in place of the more expensive one. It could be as little as cheaper riders that you replace to get Remco in plus a 0-coster in the worst case. That ultra cheap alternative rider can hardly compensate for Remco going 2500. And if it was an obvious 0-pointer like Seixas then they would already be in both teams regardless.

Even in my case if I was to make a quick swap to Remco I would have to give up on Seixas, O'Connor, Mas and Torres to afford him and it would leave me with 16 points to buy 3 other riders for. I'm not sure those 16 points would get me very far to compensate for 2500. Say they manage to score 100 points each then that would be 2800 points gained from 4 riders costing 1945. That's still only a 44% gain on 4 riders.

You could of course redo the entire team and cut some other 400+ cost riders in order to get more cash to upgrade those 3 extra spots with to the 100s at least. But that same reasoning applies to any team. You can have a team topped with a couple of 700 cost riders and then you spread the rest evenly at 200 points or so skipping over the 3-400 bracket. You don't need a super expensive pick to get that type of structure.

On top of all that, all the most obvious cheap picks like Zingle and his likes will already be in both teams so the extra cheap riders with high upsides will still be fairly deep cuts to find.
But surely if there are obvious expensive riders, you can also pick them with (or without) Evenepoel on your team. 8 of the 12 Remco teams also have Seixas (and of the remaining four, two squeezed Van Aert into their team and one had Girmay so it's hardly like they couldn't have found the points if they had wanted too). It's hardly one or the other type of choice.

So yeah picking Evenepoel forces you to go deeper on the cheap guys and cheap guys #15-20 are less likely to turn good than cheap guys #1-5. But conversely, not picking him forces you to go deeper on the expensive guys (if we all agree that spending the entire budget is the optimal strategy) and expensive guys #3-5 are less likely to turn good than expensive guys #1-2.

In your instance, it's more O'Connor, Mas, Tiberi and Landa vs Evenepoel and three other guys for a combined 200 points. Sure if Evenepoel stalls out at 2500 points the math probably is going to be in your favor but I'm not sure why that's the expectation for a guy that consistently cranks out 2800+ when healthy.

In 2022, I won the game with Remco as my most expensive pick by over 1600 points on the best non-Remco team. So even if Evenepoel had scored 1525 points (on a price tag on 1325) instead of the 3154 points he actually scored, I still would have won the game. Pretending a rider scoring 2500 points on a 1929 price is somehow an insurmontable obstacle is just not based on reality.

And listen, we can argue Evenepoel vs any combination of riders until we are all blue in the face (O'Connor, Mas, Tiberi and Landa is certainly a valid alternative that can outscore him if things go a certain way). The reality is if Evenepoel doesn't perform, you are still competing with 77 other people to win the game. If he goes nuts, I only have to beat out the other 11 Remco teams to win the game. I'll take those odds any time.
 
Apr 26, 2019
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My team for Tour Down Under. 11 riders, so i expect great return.

But as i recall for this game it's not a great sign when you have so many riders starting in Australia as then tend to struggle a bit after return to Europe.

BUSATTO Francesco
DINHAM Matthew
GAUTHERAT Pierre
HAGENES Per Strand
O'CONNOR Ben
PITHIE Laurence
RACCAGNI NOVIERO Andrea
TUCKWELL Luke
VAN EETVELT Lennert
VAN UDEN Casper
ZANA Filippo
If the data of @Shakes website is correct and I see no reason, why it should´t be, than a sum of 524 riders out of our 91 teams will participate in the TDU, which makes an average of 5,75 riders per team. So with your 11 riders you are definetly on the forefront with your team.

The total point amount of our teams is 103679, which makes an average of 1139 points per team.

I have six riders: Brenner, Dinham, Kron, O'Connor, Pithie, van Eetvelt, which have a total 2025 score of 1359, so I should at least be a bit above the average team in the TDU...
 
Jul 9, 2012
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Interesting to see, that three picks of the game also participate in the Pune Grand tour.
That´s something, I would never have thought of, if we didn't have this new great feature. :D

Btw.: Does the fact that the Vuelta al Tachira is not listed mean that no pick is participating in the race, or does the list only include races that have not started yet?
Indeed. List only shows races where at least one of the riders we jointly picked is in. Pune Grand Tour was also a big surprise to me! Even three different teams that have one rider there.


I assume there will be at least three of us watching there (assuming its on there). I didnt check Eurosport. :)
 
Sep 26, 2020
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Indeed. List only shows races where at least one of the riders we jointly picked is in. Pune Grand Tour was also a big surprise to me! Even three different teams that have one rider there.


I assume there will be at least three of us watching there (assuming its on there). I didnt check Eurosport. :)

It's the first Grand Tour of the year so surely we'll all be watching.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Sure if Evenepoel stalls out at 2500 points the math probably is going to be in your favor but I'm not sure why that's the expectation for a guy that consistently cranks out 2800+ when healthy.
Well, that was the scenario I initially responded to saying only getting 2500 from Remco seems like it would leave a lot of work for the rest of the team to compensate for.

In 2022, I won the game with Remco as my most expensive pick by over 1600 points on the best non-Remco team. So even if Evenepoel had scored 1525 points (on a price tag on 1325) instead of the 3154 points he actually scored, I still would have won the game. Pretending a rider scoring 2500 points on a 1929 price is somehow an insurmontable obstacle is just not based on reality.
Well, somewhat obvious and popular picks over 1000 with huge potential upsides like Remco is a completely different matter than most normal picks over 1000. No one is saying 2500 from a 1929 pick is insurmountable but in my mind it's certainly hindering the team more than its helping it. With a good enough rest of the team then any single rider can certainly be compensated for.

And listen, we can argue Evenepoel vs any combination of riders until we are all blue in the face (O'Connor, Mas, Tiberi and Landa is certainly a valid alternative that can outscore him if things go a certain way). The reality is if Evenepoel doesn't perform, you are still competing with 77 other people to win the game. If he goes nuts, I only have to beat out the other 11 Remco teams to win the game. I'll take those odds any time.
Absolutely if a rider like that goes nuts of course it's a game winning pick. The discussion was more whether him only scoring 2500 was acceptable or not.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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TDU team

Dinham
Chamberlain
Kron
Lamperti
Ballerstedt
McKenzie
Porter
Thornley

Not expecting a massive amount but hoping that Kron and Lamperti can harvest a few points at least.
 
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Sep 20, 2017
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O’Connor, Van Eetvelt, Brenner, Kron, Dinham, Lamperti, Taminiaux and Bjerg for me. Not really expecting anything from Bjerg (a prologue on road bikes is hardly his kind of TT), but otherwise it’s a juicy-looking lineup with two riders doing the sprints (and Lamperti should like the final stage too) and the other five all with the potential for at least some GC points. If the startlists of the three Spanish races are at least somewhat favourable, a top-10 on the week could be a realistic target.
 
Dec 27, 2016
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Just realized what you just implemented!
Such a good function! :) Thanks really for that!
No more srcolling through PCS startlists anymore. What should I do with the 10% of my working time that has been freed up? My boss will thank you for that! ;)
I actually like spending time going the PCS schedule. Some thing to do if that's race is a little slow to develop.
 
Aug 29, 2011
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For the first time I made some picks with Oceania in mind so hopefully that'll pay off. Still only at 7 picks but I would've been at 4-5 otherwise.

TEUTENBERG Tim Torn: Contest the sprints please.
FOX Matthew: Contest the sprints please.
VAN EETVELT Lennert: Contest the hill please.
PITHIE Laurence: Contest the sprints please.
DINHAM Matthew: Contest the hill please.
VAN UDEN Casper: Contest the sprints please.
KRON Andreas: Both?
 
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