The 500 Tests/Never tested positive lie

[D-Queued]

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_jersey_statistics, he had 83 days in yellow. That's almost 12 days per tour, which would mean that he was in yellow more often than not during those 7 years.

Only to be fair, Armstrong's 83 days in yellow is second only to Merckx and his 22 stage wins is fourth all-time.

Thanks for the clarifications.

17 yellow days in 2005, one stage win (+1 TTT win). Go figure. Maybe that is what I was thinking of.

Dave.

 

[steve_r]

I have not read the full thread yet, about half but I did not see this raised.

I know that Armstrong and his team were conducting their own tests for HCT (almost daily during competions?). And almost certainly for various PEDs to ensure that their programs were effective and undected (well, if they were on a program, maybe they were just testing to make sure that Armstrong was not doping on his own, heh-heh).

With the 236-or-less official tests (nice job, DimSpace!), a lawyer or a psychopath (and I consider them entirely separate professions) could easily add the "in-house" testing into the total and not be actually "lying".

 

[ChrisE]

great work by you and Dim btw. certainly puts things in perspective

Yes, and RR was originally off by about a factor of 2.5 with his original post of 92 tests. Let's start a thread about "92 test lie" and villify RR, to the sadness of his fans that were saying his original post should be sent to reporters.

Too bad he didn't edit the 92 out when he editted his post to put the 236 caption. Out of sight, out of mind works well in these types of situations.

 

[ChrisE]

Thanks for the clarifications.

17 yellow days in 2005, one stage win (+1 TTT win). Go figure. Maybe that is what I was thinking of.

Dave.

Right. I'm sure that was it.

 

[Turner29]

Aren't all riders tested daily for HCT, or is that on a sample basis as well?

 

[D-Queued]

Right. I'm sure that was it.

I quickly acknowledged my mistake, publicly, and those that corrected it.

I also learned a lot more about efficiency in multi-tour winners (Eddy most efficient, Bernard the least efficient).

What have you learned?

Dave.

 

[thehog]

Lance's paid liars have invent the myth that lance has passed 500 tests. That he never tested positive. That he was the most tested athlete in history. They offer no evidence to support it, because it is a lie. One that is rather easy to prove wrong

You can look up the WADA testing history of any American rider on the USADA website.

http://www.usada.org/athlete-test-history

Since 2001 Lance has been tested 29 times. By comparison

George Hincapie 38
levi Leipheimer 40
Kirsten Armstrong 66

Thanks to Dim for this handy graphic

The graphic is very good. I'm impressed by the design skill.

 

[ChrisE]

I quickly acknowledged my mistake, publicly, and those that corrected it.

I also learned a lot more about efficiency in multi-tour winners (Eddy most efficient, Bernard the least efficient).

What have you learned?

Dave.

I've learned your knee-jerk LA bashing trumps your intelligence, which I consider way above avg.

Days in yellow has no bearing on dominance. For example, LA didn't get yellow until late in 2001 due to that 30 minute breakaway. In fact Simon might have been in yellow more that tour. So much we can learn about something so trivial, dictated by tactics. "Efficiency"? lol.

And you know this. We have known eachother a long time now and I enjoy our conversations. I just think you ought to dial it down a notch and be reasonable once again.

 

[D-Queued]

I've learned your knee-jerk LA bashing trumps your intelligence, which I consider way above avg.

Days in yellow has no bearing on dominance. For example, LA didn't get yellow until late in 2001 due to that 30 minute breakaway. In fact Simon might have been in yellow more that tour. So much we can learn about something so trivial, dictated by tactics. "Efficiency"? lol.

And you know this. We have known eachother a long time now and I enjoy our conversations. I just think you ought to dial it down a notch and be reasonable once again.

In this case, you were right.

I relied on memory which is never perfect.

While embarrassing, I am glad for the correction as I learned a bunch of (useless for these forums) stuff about yellow jersey efficiency.

If I ever use that argument again (days in yellow...), I will be really upset at myself.

Dave.

 

[thehog]

The scandal that saw Ben Johnson stripped of his gold in the 100 for steroid use shifted a different sort of spotlight on FloJo and her dramatic improvement in form during the year of 1988. However, she never tested positive despite the admission of drug enforcement officials that she had been specially targeted for extra testing in Seoul.

"There is a reason for everything she achieved," said Al Joyner. "It was made possible by the approach she had in her mind to everything in her life. She had this passion for life, everything she did was at 100 percent.
"It didn't matter if it was the Olympic final or just something at home, everything had to be perfect. And if you strive for perfection, well, special things can happen."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympi...ve-24-years-after-her-triumphs-in-seoul.html?

 

[ChrisE]

In this case, you were right.

I relied on memory which is never perfect.

While embarrassing, I am glad for the correction as I learned a bunch of (useless for these forums) stuff about yellow jersey efficiency.

If I ever use that argument again (days in yellow...), I will be really upset at myself.

Dave.

Whatever lol. Memory? What portion of your memory would clarify whether or not days in yellow mean anything? What "argument" were you making? I'm all ears.

You weren't making an argument. You were just using some trivial, irrelevant stat to jam LA about.

 

[D-Queued]

... And if you strive for perfection, well, special things can happen."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympi...ve-24-years-after-her-triumphs-in-seoul.html?

Ahhh, isn't that sweet.



Dave.

 

[TubularBills]

Found this and thought it might be of interest to some?

Source:

biotechnorati.co.uk

 

[BroDeal]

Found this and thought it might be of interest to some?

Source:

biotechnorati.co.uk

It looks like the sport to dope in is "committee." Administration is not tested. No wonder McQuaid has not been caught yet.

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Marion Jones tested 160 times and never a positive. It was threat of imprisonment that revealed her huge profile involvement.

 

[poupou]

deleted .

 

[sniper]

Found this and thought it might be of interest to some?

Source:

biotechnorati.co.uk

Football/Soccer not listed??? Holy Madre Mia. So it's just FIFA policing it's own sport? That makes my eyes rain.
How doped up that sport must be at present.
Think of the extreme rise in athletic performances in football over the past decade, increased endurance, new goalscoring records, etc.

 

[labratty]

Found this and thought it might be of interest to some?

Source:

biotechnorati.co.uk

Hard to pick where to start, No hGH testing in weightlifting, pentathlon, gymnastics, baseball (strength good to have), no EPO testing in field hockey, handball (endurance good to have), almost none in athletics

And on top of that the test numbers are low, 100s or 1000s of professional athletes have near freedom to take what they like in the off season and OOC.

 

[sniper]

Hard to pick where to start, No hGH testing in weightlifting, pentathlon, gymnastics, baseball (strength good to have), no EPO testing in field hockey, handball (endurance good to have), almost none in athletics

And on top of that the test numbers are low, 100s or 1000s of professional athletes have near freedom to take what they like in the off season and OOC.

no OOC testing in football. guess it's all technique anyway...

and look at equestrian. doping of all sorts is rife there.

 

[labratty]

no football.

and look at equestrian. doping of all sorts is rife there.

yup, football had already been mentioned before I posted, Rugby is missing also which concerns me.

I am sure the riders would benefit some, but race jockeys would benefit more, don't think it is WADA's job to get the actual donkeys/racehorses to pee in a cup

The overall lack of blood tests is terrifying, is the same going to happen at the Olympics, with 85-90% of their suposed 6000 tests only going to be urine tests?

 

[thehog]

More here

a note: while this cannot be 100% guaranteed to be 100% accurate, what we can say with 100% certainty is that 236 is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM number of tests conducted by anti doping agencies
By dimspace of velorooms.com

Have to say well done Dim on the schematic. Absolutely brilliant.

 

[D-Queued]

Taking full advantage of one of the new WADA Floyd Landis rules*, we now know that USADA has gone directly after Lance's lie in their Motion to Dismiss Lance's Complaint:

From Exhibit 1

Allegation

3. "Throughout his twenty-plus year professional career, Mr. Armstrong has been subjected to 500 to 600 tests without a single positive test." Am. Compl. ¶ 16

Correction

USADA has requested that Armstrong's counsel provide USADA the factual basis for this claim and Armstrong's counsel has, to date, refused

BUT, this gets even better.

The exhibits provided for this USADA motion to dismiss provide an apparent admission of a doping violation. In notes from one of Lance's representatives on a proposed affadavit to be made by Travis Tygart in the SCA arbitration, it was acknowledged that Lance "has "missed" at least one test".

Here is the original draft affidavit text, with the Note from Lawrence Temple:

"I have reviewed USADA's files regarding Lance Armstrong. USADA has tested Armstrong 12 times, and every single test has been negative. Armstrong has never been subject to a positive test administered by USADA. I also checked his "misses", and within the last 18 months, Armstrong has not missed any test. [I believe that Lance has "missed" at least one test in the past. I think it was resolved with USADA to USADA's satisfaction, but do we address it?]"

Notably, the final text of the affidavit removes any reference to missed tests:

"I have reviewed USADA's files regarding Mr. Armstrong. USADA has drug tested Mr. Armstrong twelve (12) separate times on the following dates: Novermber 20, 2001, December 6, 2001, October 22, 2002, November 18, 2003, April 22, 2004, April 23, 2004, April 24, 2004, April 25, 2004, December 7 Doo4, January 26, 2005, February 19, 2005, and April 5, 2005. Mr. Armstrong has never had an adverse analytical finding reported** to USADA. USADA has never charged Mr. Armstrong with a doping violation for a positive test or being unavailable for testing or otherwise."

Someone should call Mr. Temple as a witness.

Dave.

* Allowing the ADA's to respond publicly to PR campaigns mounted by dopers
** The USADA (created in 2000) was not yet in existence when Lance tested positive for cortisone in 1999 (From Wikipedia: "Lance Armstrong tested positive for corticoids during the 1999 Tour de France.")

 

[TexPat]

I would really like to know which missed test this is refers to.

 

[D-Queued]

I would really like to know which missed test this is refers to.

Even more telling if it is not the occasion in Austin.

Dave.

 

[thehog]

I would really like to know which missed test this is refers to.

November 2003. He was surfing apparently. It appears in the SCA testimony.