The 500 Tests/Never tested positive lie

[D-Queued]

Here’s an updated estimate of the tests:

...

What remains to be filled out:
1) OOC tests. Will have to estimate. My guess is they might average one per three months, beginning when? Did they have them in the 90s? Let’s say they began in 1999. And some of these would be covered in the USADA tests. Probably around twenty as a generous estimate?
...

Have finally uncovered a transcript of Mike Anderson's testimony in the SCA Arbitration. Here is an extract relating to an OOC test:

"Q. Now, in your work around Mr. Armstrong did you ever – were you ever present when an off season drug test was performed or the inspector showed up to perform one?

A. I wasn’t – I was never there when an actual test was given. I was made aware of a missed test and witnessed the – the people who were there to administer the test as they were leaving.

Q. Okay. Can you tell the panel what you saw and were told in relation to that?

A. Yes. I was on my way to the ranch to meet Lance who at the time was staying there. It was a normal day for training and a normal work day for me. And on the way I received a phone call from Derek Russey who said, where is Lance? I said, what do you mean where is Lance? He said, well he’s not here. Derek was at the house. And I said, well he should be there. I’m supposed to meet him there. And he says, well he’s not, and two of the drug control people were just here and I told them they were trespassing and made them leave. And he didn’t – he said that they were waiting outside the property – outside the gate for Lance to come home. That – he asked me if I have any way of getting ahold of him. I said, I really don’t know where he is. I don’t know anything about this.

So I continued on my way and before I’m at the ranch – got to the gate of the ranch, I met – I passed two people in a white SUV as described by Derek Russey on their way back out of town. And Derek and I had a brief – I was very uncomfortable about the whole thing because – and he and I both during the course of this discussion had said that wasn’t that an automatic positive if you missed the test. And that, for the most – for the most part, was the last I ever heard of it. Just nothing else was ever said."

This appears to confirm the valid attempt and the willful miss. Thus, it appears that it should be counted in the # of tests total.

Dave.

 

[thehog]

Can we make a categorized year by year summary? It would be nice to put in graphical form if large numbers can be broken out.

1999
* USADA: 0
* TDF: 15
* NON-TDF UCI: 15 - 15 = 0
* NON-TDF WINS: 3 - 3 (races without testing) = 0


* NON-TDF WINS: 0
* TRI: 2 or 3 ?

Why the subtraction on the non-TDF?

 

[BroDeal]

Why the subtraction on the non-TDF?

The reported UCI tests include the TDF ones. There are descrepancies.

It is interesting that the number of UCI tests go down from 1999. 15 > 12 -> 10 -> 9 -> 9 -> 8 Almost looks like a trend. If Armstrong's days in yellow plus stage wins totalled 17 in 2005 and he was actually tested than many times then it would break the trend.

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4118228.html

the 500 tests are being slowly pulled apart...

is repeated use of this phrase has many of his supporters, and the man himself, believing the ongoing questioning of his stellar career is simply a witch-hunt. The only problem for Lance and his legion of fans is that when he makes that statement he is lying.

Armstrong has tested positive to drugs during his career - twice.

The first was during the 1999 Tour de France when a backdated therapeutic use exemption certificate (TUE) was furnished following an official positive result for corticosteroids.

He also returned an unofficial positive for EPO in 1999 when some of his samples were used in the course of developing an accurate test for the substance. An industrious journalist from the French newspaper, L'Equipe successfully got hold of a match between the code numbers on the samples and the relevant riders' names.

But, Armstrong conveniently forgets to ever mention these happenings........

It is a slippy slope from here on in. Best thing he can do is cut a deal and go live a quiet life. But that wont happen.

 

[Adamastor]

Did LA mention the 500?

Did Armstrong ever say himself, he was tested 500+ times anywhere?
If yes, link please

 

[Merckx index]

Did Armstrong ever say himself, he was tested 500+ times anywhere?
If yes, link please

It says 500-600 times in the complaint he filed yesterday. I know that was written by his lawyers, but he should be held responsible as agreeing with all of its content.

DQd, I didn't understand the bit about two dozen tests in the 1990s. As I understand it, there were no OOC tests then, so the three testosterone tests you refer to, along with all the other of the two dozen, should have been obtained following wins. But if that's the case, then how could the two dozen be counted in just 1992, 1996 and 2000? Also, the dates of those three tests that Catlin mentions do not match up with any races I know he was in at that time, though I haven't been able to confirm the dates of all the races he was in.

Wrt the 29 USADA tests, three should have been for the TdG, leaving 26 OOC during this period. But he was living in Europe I would guess at least half the time during this period, so we might estimate an equal amount of OOC tests administered over there by WADA during that time frame. I think adding these to all the known times he would have been tested in competition provides a better estimate than trying to work out discrepancies year to year between total tests and TDF tests.

Another point. He claims in the complaint that he was tested 24 times between end of summer 2008 when he came out of retirement and spring of 2009. But I'm quite sure these were tests used to establish a passport baseline. You can't fail a test like that, so for the purposes of claiming to be clean, these tests should not count.

 

[poupou]

It says 500-600 times in the complaint he filed yesterday. I know that was written by his lawyers, but he should be held responsible as agreeing with all of its content.

From my reading of that part of the complaint, I would bet that they have included checkings of hematocrit because they were alluding at "testing" before races!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Did Armstrong ever say himself, he was tested 500+ times anywhere?
If yes, link please

Here you go - from Armstrongs personal website just a few weeks ago:

I have never doped, and, unlike many of my accusers, I have competed as an endurance athlete for 25 years with no spike in performance, passed more than 500 drug tests and never failed one.

Link - http://lancearmstrong.com/news-events/lance-armstrong-responds-to-usada-allegation

 

[Adamastor]

500+ Tests discussed in German press

"Bold Fairytales about 500 Tests"

9th July article in Sueddeutsche Zeitung...sorry if this was already posted.

You're also featured guys:

"...In cycling forums brewing a storm of protest from these data; assistance to the prosecutors..."

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/do...rmstrong-dreiste-maerchen-von-tests-1.1406186

 

[Zam_Olyas]

More here

a note: while this cannot be 100% guaranteed to be 100% accurate, what we can say with 100% certainty is that 236 is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM number of tests conducted by anti doping agencies
By dimspace of velorooms.com

 

[Froome19]

I guess that is conclusive enough.

 

[cineteq]

"Bold Fairytales about 500 Tests"

9th July article in Sueddeutsche Zeitung...sorry if this was already posted.

You're also featured guys:

"...In cycling forums brewing a storm of protest from these data; assistance to the prosecutors..."

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/do...rmstrong-dreiste-maerchen-von-tests-1.1406186

It's Bavarianrider = Thomas Kistner?

@TheRaceRadio
German media questions the 500 tests myth…At least credit who did the research

 

[BroDeal]

More here

a note: while this cannot be 100% guaranteed to be 100% accurate, what we can say with 100% certainty is that 236 is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM number of tests conducted by anti doping agencies
By dimspace of velorooms.com

Kudos to Dim. He wanted to err on the side of caution so Armstrong's people could not attack the numbers. The bad thing is that it overstates the number of tests. If someone can provide good info what testing was done at various pre-1999 races and other minor races then the number could be credibly reduced.

 

[thehog]

More here

a note: while this cannot be 100% guaranteed to be 100% accurate, what we can say with 100% certainty is that 236 is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM number of tests conducted by anti doping agencies
By dimspace of velorooms.com

This is brilliant! So where are the missing 388 tests Armstrong claims?

 

[Maxiton]

Wow, that is quite a feat. Appealing from a graphics standpoint, too.

Where are these tests documented, that Dim has access to them? And are there other kinds of things that could be considered tests, if loosely interpreted?

 

[BroDeal]

Some of the extra space should be used to state right on the diagram that the total is the maximum number and many counted races did not have any testing. When people post it to forums and other social media they likely will not point that out. It needs to be on there.

 

[mewmewmew13]

"Bold Fairytales about 500 Tests"

9th July article in Sueddeutsche Zeitung...sorry if this was already posted.

You're also featured guys:

"...In cycling forums brewing a storm of protest from these data; assistance to the prosecutors..."

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/do...rmstrong-dreiste-maerchen-von-tests-1.1406186

How cool is that.

 

[patricknd]

Pretty thin debating ground to not call passport tests anti-doping tests. I would certainly count anytime a cycling authority put a cup in my hand or a needle in my arm as a dope test.

Again, if I were a pro I'd count them, and denying they're doping tests would (IMO) hurt the argument put forth in this thread.

careful man. balance and fairness are frowned upon in these parts

 

[Dr. Maserati]

careful man. balance and fairness are frowned upon in these parts

You'll notice that Dim actually includes the Bio passport numbers in his diagram.

A fair and balanced summary

 

[patricknd]

You'll notice that Dim actually includes the Bio passport numbers in his diagram.

A fair and balanced summary

So, red Flanders and dim, that makes two...

 

[Krebs cycle]

Does anyone have or know where to find the dates of the testing? esp out of competition testing.

After the introduction of the EPO test in 2000, the method of choice became autologous blood transfusions. There was no test that could detect this and even now it remains difficult with the ABP, however, during the off-season I have heard that EPO was likely used to speed up recovery of normal red cell volume following a blood withdrawal. In this case then it might have been more likely to test positive out of competition, but there was no way that it was going to happen in and around racing.

He could have been tested a millions times but if you are testing for apples and doping with oranges then you'll never test positive. Just another part of the PR propaganda campaign.

 

[red_flanders]

careful man. balance and fairness are frowned upon in these parts

Turn that frown upside down!

 

[red_flanders]

Nicely put together.

 

[thehog]

You'll notice that Dim actually includes the Bio passport numbers in his diagram.

A fair and balanced summary

I'm just replying to keep the graphic in the posts.

 

[Kender]

I'm just replying to keep the graphic in the posts.

Maybe RaceRadio will edit his OP to include the image.