The 500 Tests/Never tested positive lie

[Race Radio]

Maybe RaceRadio will edit his OP to include the image.

Done......

 

[Kender]

great work by you and Dim btw. certainly puts things in perspective

 

[thehog]

great work by you and Dim btw. certainly puts things in perspective

Yes excellent effort on the following diagram:

 

[red_flanders]

It occurs to me that for a lot of people this chart is going to vividly highlight just how often riders are tested (many will be shocked) and may, for a large part of the potential audience, have the opposite effect intended.

Compared to baseball and football that amount of testing is just shocking. Baseball's comparatively limited testing has turned the corner in the sport as far as performances completely coming back in line with historical norms. That's really as far as most people are going to care.

Just my opinion.

 

[D-Queued]

Awesome!

Next up, a diagram of all of the positive tests?

(1993-1996 USOC = 3x Testosterone, 1999 - 6x EPO + 1x Cortisone, 2000 - doping paraphenelia, 2001 - TdS 1x EPO, 2003ish - Avoided OOC test at Austin ranch, 2009/10 - Blood Passport confirmation of EPO and/or blood transfusion)

Dave.

 

[BroDeal]

It occurs to me that for a lot of people this chart is going to vividly highlight just how often riders are tested (many will be shocked) and may, for a large part of the potential audience, have the opposite effect intended.

Compared to baseball and football that amount of testing is just shocking. Baseball's comparatively limited testing has turned the corner in the sport as far as performances completely coming back in line with historical norms. That's really as far as most people are going to care.

Just my opinion.

Dim is concerned that if any tests are left out then Armstrong's people will be able to question the figures. The total is inflated by 90s races, post Tour crits, and samples where the results never mattered (and in some cases were positive for testosterone). I think they should be taken out and an explanation provided. The real figure is certainly below 200. That makes more of an impact.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Awesome!

Next up, a diagram of all of the positive tests?

(1993-1996 USOC = 3x Testosterone, 1999 - 6x EPO + 1x Cortisone, 2000 - doping paraphenelia, 2001 - TdS 1x EPO, 2003ish - Avoided OOC test at Austin ranch, 2009/10 - Blood Passport confirmation of EPO and/or blood transfusion)

Dave.

... and "Shower-Gate" please.

Thanks in advance dimspace.

 

[red_flanders]

Dim is concerned that if any tests are left out then Armstrong's people will be able to question the figures. The total is inflated by 90s races, post Tour crits, and samples where the results never mattered (and in some cases were positive for testosterone). I think they should be taken out and an explanation provided. The real figure is certainly below 200. That makes more of an impact.

The facts are the facts, I'd not change a thing. I'd focus on the point that the test matter little and that he has tested positive.

 

[D-Queued]

... and "Shower-Gate" please.

Thanks in advance dimspace.

And please also add 2009, Astana getting advance warning on testing at the TdF.

http://www.as.com/ciclismo/articulo/astana-beneficio-trato-favor-controles/20091005dasdascic_2/Tes

Dave.

 

[BroDeal]

The facts are the facts, I'd not change a thing. I'd focus on the point that the test matter little and that he has tested positive.

The facts are that the real number is less than 200.

 

[Adamastor]

Have sent the graph to Damien Ressiot

 

[Adamastor]

Most tested Athlete in the world?

Now that we can base a discussion on LA figures, can anyone provide similar figures for other athletes:

1) in cycling
2) in other sports

in order to recoup and compare with number of times Mr Armstrong was tested?

 

[D-Queued]

Now that we can base a discussion on LA figures, can anyone provide similar figures for other athletes:

1) in cycling
2) in other sports

in order to recoup and compare with number of times Mr Armstrong was tested?

Please check the statistics at USADA.org.

These are now easily compiled by sport, athlete, year, etc.

Used to be you had to download the whole database and then parse through it the hard way.

Much, much easier now.

Bottom line, others that have also overstated their claim as the most tested athlete have a stronger claim than Lance.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

Now that we can base a discussion on LA figures, can anyone provide similar figures for other athletes:

1) in cycling
2) in other sports

in order to recoup and compare with number of times Mr Armstrong was tested?

who cares about other sports.

They have their dopers, liars and sociopaths too.

 

[Adamastor]

who cares about other sports.

They have their dopers, liars and sociopaths too.

Yes, but they don't show off about being the most tested athletes in the world...

 

[Race Radio]

http://youtu.be/hrREyjqXpyo?t=6m8s

In 2009 Armstrong's paid liar, Tim Herman, said Armstrong had been tested "About 300 times"

 

[Adamastor]

Nice

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/the-legend-of-the-500/

Nice

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Did Armstrong ever say himself, he was tested 500+ times anywhere?
If yes, link please

It says 500-600 times in the complaint he filed yesterday. I know that was written by his lawyers, but he should be held responsible as agreeing with all of its content.

DQd, I didn't understand the bit about two dozen tests in the 1990s. As I understand it, there were no OOC tests then, so the three testosterone tests you refer to, along with all the other of the two dozen, should have been obtained following wins. But if that's the case, then how could the two dozen be counted in just 1992, 1996 and 2000? Also, the dates of those three tests that Catlin mentions do not match up with any races I know he was in at that time, though I haven't been able to confirm the dates of all the races he was in.

Wrt the 29 USADA tests, three should have been for the TdG, leaving 26 OOC during this period. But he was living in Europe I would guess at least half the time during this period, so we might estimate an equal amount of OOC tests administered over there by WADA during that time frame. I think adding these to all the known times he would have been tested in competition provides a better estimate than trying to work out discrepancies year to year between total tests and TDF tests.

Another point. He claims in the complaint that he was tested 24 times between end of summer 2008 when he came out of retirement and spring of 2009. But I'm quite sure these were tests used to establish a passport baseline. You can't fail a test like that, so for the purposes of claiming to be clean, these tests should not count.

He is responsible, so Adamastor's question has been answered. Lance has claimed he was tested 500-600 times, which is a lie...but in the scheme of things, that lie is really a small one compared the the others he as made, so no biggie.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Now that we can base a discussion on LA figures, can anyone provide similar figures for other athletes:

1) in cycling
2) in other sports

in order to recoup and compare with number of times Mr Armstrong was tested?

The USADA case is about Lance's doping, not the doping of people in other sports (right now anyway). This isn't about a witch hunt for everyone who has ever doped, it is about prosecuting a case where there appears to be overwhelming evidence that Lance doped, and helped facilitate a team wide doping program. Try to keep up.

 

[Adamastor]

The USADA case is about Lance's doping, not the doping of people in other sports (right now anyway). This isn't about a witch hunt for everyone who has ever doped, it is about prosecuting a case where there appears to be overwhelming evidence that Lance doped, and helped facilitate a team wide doping program. Try to keep up.

All I'm trying to verify here is if LA is right in stating that no other athlete has ever been tested as often as himself. We seem to agree that the number of 500 tests is far too exaggerated, now how many times were others tested?

And as we're at it, as a matter of curiosity, have others been tested more often in other disciplines? LA talked about athlete, not rider!!

 

[BroDeal]

All I'm trying to verify here is if LA is right in stating that no other athlete has ever been tested as often as himself. We seem to agree that the number of 500 tests is far too exaggerated, now how many times were others tested?

Erik Zabel had more than two hundred wins. Add tests for time in leader's jerseys, point's jerseys, etc., and he was certainly tested more times than Armstrong.

When it comes to tests is the U.S, Armstrong was chicked by Kristin.

 

[ManInFull]

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/the-legend-of-the-500/

Nice

Is this accurate? Lance wore the TdF yellow jersey for over 80 days (I believe) and won a number of stages. How many times would he have been tested due to that alone?

 

[D-Queued]

Eddy Merckx has the record for days in yellow at 96.

Lance has actually had one of the lowest days-in-yellow counts and lowest number of stage wins for any multi-tour winner. I don't know if he made it all the way up to 80 days.

Dave.

 

[ManInFull]

Eddy Merckx has the record for days in yellow at 96.

Lance has actually had one of the lowest days-in-yellow counts and lowest number of stage wins for any multi-tour winner. I don't know if he made it all the way up to 80 days.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_jersey_statistics, he had 83 days in yellow. That's almost 12 days per tour, which would mean that he was in yellow more often than not during those 7 years.

 

[Turner29]

Eddy Merckx has the record for days in yellow at 96.

Lance has actually had one of the lowest days-in-yellow counts and lowest number of stage wins for any multi-tour winner. I don't know if he made it all the way up to 80 days.

Dave.

Only to be fair, Armstrong's 83 days in yellow is second only to Merckx and his 22 stage wins is fourth all-time.