The Article: WSJ - reopened!

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

I take it you dislike whistleblowers. So does the mafia, communists and closed shops.

I have NO PROBLEM with whistle blowers..........what I have problems with are dopers who have profited from taking dope, but when caught........try to drag everyone else down...............

that is the moral decay here......... be clean......rat them out and go from there............not the other way around.

HUGE DIFFERENCE

 

[Animal]

I have NO PROBLEM with whistle blowers..........what I have problems with are dopers who have profited from taking dope, but when caught........try to drag everyone else down...............

that is the moral decay here......... be clean......rat them out and go from there............not the other way around.

HUGE DIFFERENCE

I think I've seen this almost random arrangement of glyphs before. Under some other name.

 

[buckwheat]

Why is no one else commenting on this? I'm having more trouble believing Landis now than before reading this article.

yeah, it's odd.

By June, Mr. Landis had shown great improvement. He finished second to Mr. Armstrong in the seven-day Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, a warm-up race for the Tour de France. After the race, Mr. Landis said, he was packing to leave the hotel when Mr. Bruyneel, the team director, knocked on the door.

Mr. Landis said Mr. Bruyneel congratulated him and gave him the news he'd been hoping for—that he would likely be named to the nine-man Tour de France team.

According to Mr. Landis, Mr. Bruyneel told him that when he arrived back in St. Moritz, Mr. Armstrong would give him something to shorten his recovery time in the weeks leading up to the Tour. Mr. Landis said Mr. Bruyneel told him they were small patches that contained testosterone and that Mr. Landis should stick one on his stomach two out of every three nights before going to bed.

During this conversation, Mr. Landis said, Mr. Bruyneel also told him that before the Tour, Mr. Landis would have some blood extracted—blood that would then be put back in his body during the race. That process would boost his blood's ability to carry oxygen to his muscles.

Both testosterone patches and blood transfusions are banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency, which oversees drug testing in many international sports. If evidence of their use is found in the blood or urine of a cyclist, it usually results in a two-year suspension.

Mr. Landis said the conversation with Mr. Bruyneel didn't come as a surprise, and that he agreed without hesitation. He said he was motivated by the prospect of making more money as a racer, and was happy he was being introduced to doping by somebody he trusted.


So he was second in the Dauphine clean?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

were people actually posting in here during the prologue?

They had better have ZERO interest in the tdf. That is just sad, regardless of where you stand.

TBH I looked at the Prologue thread and it was filling so fast I couldn't bother refreshing & keeping up.

I was suprised to see comments in the Clinic at the time though - and as prologues are a bit meh until the last 10 riders it was more fun seeing 'WGR&R' trying to remember which line to choose.

 

[Animal]

I was following and discussing on another (non cycling specialist) site.

 

[buckwheat]

Joe don't you think it's a bit bold to say Lance has 7 "dirty" tour victories ? Do I think pro bike racers get a spritz from time to time..yes. Landis looks like the guys on the side of the 405 as cars rip by going 90.."look at that guy he is doing 90!!why are you not going after him"? police usual answer " because I caught you". Landis got caught..he tried to throttle the Shack and The Tour of California. Trying to get a job and a spot for Bahati. I would say from just a few minutes after he got popped and said maybe it was from drinking Jack Daniel's
he started phuking up then and hasn't stopped. Chad has trashed himself and everybody else around him..all the way down to his daughter. He is human garbage and the fact that he and Floyd are fast friends says something about the 2 of them. their career paths will lead them to 1 hr Intervention specials. If King Lance did get a squirt in 2001 Floyd's concern is way too fukin late. The guy is a punk

You have some serious issues. Where do you ride on LI so I can stomp you btw?

 

[lean mean &green]

Some of my favorite highlights of the article...

1.Rupert Murdoch <3 Team Sky
2. No dope before USPS for Landis
3. No dope @ Phonak when Landis got there.

#1 irrelevant. the facts are the facts. you either consider landis' statements believable or you don't. murdoch-sky connection only means the truth is more likely to be published in wsj. if anything, this HURTS your argument.

#2
hard to believe floyd here, mercury didn't have a great reputation but what's coming out is that doping appears less systemic and teams in the early 2000's were probably better described as complicit. some riders at mercury may have doped, some maybe not.

#3
there was definitely dope at phonak but again, probably done mostly by individuals with DS and team officials looking the other way.

131313 makes an interesting point. i've always felt like the use of PED's is overstated a little bit. landis appears to be confirming that you can compete cleanly. very encouraging if true.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

The "they all dope" argument helps preserve LA's legacy in light of more evidence emerging that LA did in fact dope. "They all doped" so Lance was the best regardless. This is simply not true but it helps reconcile their man-crush with LA's doping. I think public strategies will shift from the they are "bitter and jealous" tactic to the "they all doped" argument (that is, on the forums) as more members of Postal corroborate Flandis' story.

This is their new MO, yes, as no one believes he's clean anymore. It won't wash, though, not in Texarse's case. Here's why:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=howard/100528

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

I think I've seen this almost random arrangement of glyphs before. Under some other name.

no idea.........this is the ONLY name I have on the board..........

 

[CycloErgoSum]

I asked 2 questions - you have given me 1 answer.

So - it is just the riders of the Tour? Not other Pro Tour riders, or in the Pro Conti ranks?

So again - if these 185 riders are doping, and everyone knows this was does Lance deny it?
You realise you are now painting Lance as the liar & Floyd being truthful.Also you said everyone denied "and so has floyd and EVERY other doper that was caught"..... I think you need to read the WSJ article again.

Elementary, my dear Watson!

Nicely observed. The latest fanbouy logic is pure DoubleThink. Everyone doped so Texarse is OK. Yet his continued denials makes him a liar.

The new tactic emerging is apathy: forget it all and just watch the spectacle.

 

[fatandfast]

I take it you dislike whistleblowers. So does the mafia, communists and closed shops.

The thing that I probably hate most... kind of like Loren Mooney who wrote the Landis lie book was how he professed his innocence in front of his parents. He swore on his mothers life a couple of times on record. He told Mooney over a 3+ month period that he was unjustly accused. Chad Gerlach is hardly a whistle blower either.. he has bought and has been convicted and rehabed for buying,stealing and taking drugs from anybody he could. Landis has to find his way after a good cycling career went to pieces. Any association with Armstrong can only benefit a guy who has has damaged himself so much that nobody in pro cycling has a spot for him..even washing bikes. Floyd is living out that any attention, even negative attention is more than he was getting. I am no Lance fan but the day of timing is something you expect from Landis but not the WSJ. LA's TT shows were his head is at. The article(s) about Landis/Lance details are barren. Selling bikes or any other products for a slush fund is hardly news either. Landis keeps trying over and over to show how little separates him from the great one. Other than the 7 TDF titles and a win at worlds..its got to be the different ways they think. Floyd's new job as an Armstrong historian will probably yield the same amount of money,credibility,friends as his former job as a pro cyclist. He and Gerlach are just 2 grease spots with mouths. I don't consider a guy who did something 9 years ago and was convicted of drug use 5 years ago to be a whistle blower. He is a blower without question.

 

[BroDeal]

I knew the pint of blood constitutes 10% of the blood volume, but I've never read the actual numbers from Landis' test. What you're looking at here is the ratio between Testosterone/Epi-testosterone. In 2006, the general consensus in WADA was that comparing an athlete’s T/E ratio to previous or subsequent samples was much more effective in identifying testosterone doping than using a single T/E ratio in a single urine sample. Thus, Landis' test was probably compared to previous urine samples.

This is wrong. FLandis failed the T:E ratio test with an 11:1 ratio. His actual testosterone levels were low. His epitestosterone levels were really low. The T:E test was later thrown out because of errors, but it triggered the CIR test, which sealed his fate.

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

The thing that I probably hate most... kind of like Loren Mooney who wrote the Landis lie book was how he professed his innocence in front of his parents. He swore on his mothers life a couple of times on record. He told Mooney over a 3+ month period that he was unjustly accused. Chad Gerlach is hardly a whistle blower either.. he has bought and has been convicted and rehabed for buying,stealing and taking drugs from anybody he could. Landis has to find his way after a good cycling career went to pieces. Any association with Armstrong can only benefit a guy who has has damaged himself so much that nobody in pro cycling has a spot for him..even washing bikes. Floyd is living out that any attention, even negative attention is more than he was getting. I am no Lance fan but the day of timing is something you expect from Landis but not the WSJ. LA's TT shows were his head is at. The article(s) about Landis/Lance details are barren. Selling bikes or any other products for a slush fund is hardly news either. Landis keeps trying over and over to show how little separates him from the great one. Other than the 7 TDF titles and a win at worlds..its got to be the different ways they think. Floyd's new job as an Armstrong historian will probably yield the same amount of money,credibility,friends as his former job as a pro cyclist. He and Gerlach are just 2 grease spots with mouths. I don't consider a guy who did something 9 years ago and was convicted of drug use 5 years ago to be a whistle blower. He is a blower without question.

another well written post

 

[Road Hazard]

I have serious trouble understanding why criticism of Landis is dismissed as Lance worship.

Landis is scum. This article, and the fact that he is spilling all these details about the actions of others shows to me that his "coming clean" is nothing more than a vendetta. If you want to come clean to clear your conscience, great, you can do that without ****ting on everyone you've ever come in contact with. He didn't get his payoff or his team spot, so he's going nuclear.

Having said that, Lance is ****. There are those of us who are sickened by Landis and who are just as sick as anyone of hearing the announcers mention Lance every 5 seconds, who are just as sick of the "I ride for Livestrong" stickers and promo people who walk around the races, and who think that it is high time he just left.

I hope that the folks on this forum (or at least a majority of them) can see that these are not mutually exclusive ideas.

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

I have serious trouble understanding why criticism of Landis is dismissed as Lance worship.

Landis is scum. This article, and the fact that he is spilling all these details about the actions of others shows to me that his "coming clean" is nothing more than a vendetta. If you want to come clean to clear your conscience, great, you can do that without ****ting on everyone you've ever come in contact with. He didn't get his payoff or his team spot, so he's going nuclear.

Having said that, Lance is ****. There are those of us who are sickened by Landis and who are just as sick as anyone of hearing the announcers mention Lance every 5 seconds, who are just as sick of the "I ride for Livestrong" stickers and promo people who walk around the races, and who think that it is high time he just left.

I hope that the folks on this forum (or at least a majority of them) can see that these are not mutually exclusive ideas.

correct but the I hate LA crowd is just too far gone to see it

 

[CycloErgoSum]

I have NO PROBLEM with whistle blowers..........what I have problems with are dopers who have profited from taking dope, but when caught........try to drag everyone else down...............

that is the moral decay here......... be clean......rat them out and go from there............not the other way around.

HUGE DIFFERENCE

That would be ideal - a portion of the peloton vehemently and vigilantly clean and ratting out or persuading dopers to end it. But it's not psychologically nor practically likely. It's the disaffected and disillusioned who bring about change: people used, hurt and discarded by the system are the ones with the motivation to effect change.

 

[BroDeal]

The thing that I probably hate most... kind of like Loren Mooney who wrote the Landis lie book was how he professed his innocence in front of his parents. He swore on his mothers life a couple of times on record. He told Mooney over a 3+ month period that he was unjustly accused. Chad Gerlach is hardly a whistle blower either.. he has bought and has been convicted and rehabed for buying,stealing and taking drugs from anybody he could. Landis has to find his way after a good cycling career went to pieces. Any association with Armstrong can only benefit a guy who has has damaged himself so much that nobody in pro cycling has a spot for him..even washing bikes. Floyd is living out that any attention, even negative attention is more than he was getting. I am no Lance fan but the day of timing is something you expect from Landis but not the WSJ. LA's TT shows were his head is at. The article(s) about Landis/Lance details are barren. Selling bikes or any other products for a slush fund is hardly news either. Landis keeps trying over and over to show how little separates him from the great one. Other than the 7 TDF titles and a win at worlds..its got to be the different ways they think. Floyd's new job as an Armstrong historian will probably yield the same amount of money,credibility,friends as his former job as a pro cyclist. He and Gerlach are just 2 grease spots with mouths. I don't consider a guy who did something 9 years ago and was convicted of drug use 5 years ago to be a whistle blower. He is a blower without question.

Uh-huh. A man who enriches himself by lying to people with terminal diseases is muuuch better than someone who lied to his mother.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have NO PROBLEM with whistle blowers..........what I have problems with are dopers who have profited from taking dope, but when caught........try to drag everyone else down...............

that is the moral decay here......... be clean......rat them out and go from there............not the other way around.

HUGE DIFFERENCE

Ok- this new.

You have NO PROBLEM with whistleblowers.........except when they blow the whistle? You want people to be 'clean' but when it comes time to confess continue the charade by lying to say they were the only ones doing it?

Add this to your "everybody" knows "everybody is doing it" (later clarified to only the participants of the TdF).

 

[trailrunner]

Here's Wilcockson's take on the WSJ article:

http://snipurl.com/yxekb

What a nut. Blame McDonalds and the WSJ, but not the dopers, and somehow it's America's fault if the the doping scandals cause the TdF to lose its "beauty."

 

[CycloErgoSum]

Ok- this new.

You have NO PROBLEM with whistleblowers.........except when they blow the whistle? You want people to be 'clean' but when it comes time to confess continue the charade by lying to say they were the only ones doing it?

Add this to your "everybody" knows "everybody is doing it" (later clarified to only the participants of the TdF).

Yep more double think. Does WGRR live in Oceania or Eurasia? How's the glorious war going?

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

Uh-huh. A man who enriches himself by lying to people with terminal diseases is muuuch better than someone who lied to his mother.

not to justify anything but giving hope to dying people is better in my book than lying to your mother.......just my .02 for what it's worth

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

Yep more double think. Does WGRR live in Oceania or Eurasia? How's the glorious war going?

actually So Cal..........land of Masters doping

 

[Cobblestones]

Here's Wilcockson's take on the WSJ article:

http://snipurl.com/yxekb

What a nut. Blame McDonalds and the WSJ, but not the dopers, and somehow it's America's fault if the the doping scandals cause the TdF to lose its "beauty."

He's more of a dick.

 

[Cozy Beehive]

Landis' Interview Renumeration

I take it that there maybe a few journalists chatting here. It is out of curiosity I ask, how much can a controversial figure like Landis command from an interview with WSJ? If this was a one day interview with one sitting, what's a typical $/hr amount? It is interesting that no one asked this yet.

 

[lean mean &green]

I have serious trouble understanding why criticism of Landis is dismissed as Lance worship.

Landis is scum. This article, and the fact that he is spilling all these details about the actions of others shows to me that his "coming clean" is nothing more than a vendetta. If you want to come clean to clear your conscience, great, you can do that without ****ting on everyone you've ever come in contact with. He didn't get his payoff or his team spot, so he's going nuclear.

Having said that, Lance is ****. There are those of us who are sickened by Landis and who are just as sick as anyone of hearing the announcers mention Lance every 5 seconds, who are just as sick of the "I ride for Livestrong" stickers and promo people who walk around the races, and who think that it is high time he just left.

I hope that the folks on this forum (or at least a majority of them) can see that these are not mutually exclusive ideas.

i'm still not a floyd landis cheerleader but his admissions are much more than vendetta. he has attempted to clear his conscious and has provided helpful information to antidoping and legal authorities. there's really no way for him to come clean without injuring someone like LA. the part of his story the wsj cares about involves LA's celebrity because they want to sell papers and advertising. maintstream newsmedia doesn't care about the specifics of EPO microdosing protocol.