The Article: WSJ - reopened!

[Cervelo77]

I'm making no comment about whether or not I believe what Landis is saying.
I will comment that I have trouble remembering exact details of experiences that happened 3 months ago. We are now asked to believe that Landis has total recall of 2002. How much has Landis factually recalled, and how much has been made to fit a view that he has? It is a fair question. Still, this story continues to get more interesting with each passing week.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Yeah seems the Shack are a little worried and on the topic of Eurosport since when has Harmon been a wannabe Phil or Paul?

Harmon has his head so far up Armstrong's **** it's a wonder he isn't mistaken for a human enema.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

and so has floyd and EVERY other doper that was caught

again for the slow..........they are ALL DOPERS AT THE TOP OF THE SPORT...............

....and I am asking you why? And where does "at the top of the sport" end?

 

[pedaling squares]

.....they are ALL DOPERS AT THE TOP OF THE SPORT...............

That hasn't been the point of the Landis revelations. It's about someone with first hand knowledge exposing Armstrong. It's not a generic "they all do it"; it's a specific "I saw him do it, I helped him do it, and I did it with him."

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

....and I am asking you why? And where does "at the top of the sport" end?

probably around 185

 

[fatandfast]

For me it was only two times per day - usually early afternoon and evening. So a typical day in California was:

wake-eat-gym-home-eat-jerk it-nap-ride-home-eat-chill-jerk it-sleep; repeat

Joe don't you think it's a bit bold to say Lance has 7 "dirty" tour victories ? Do I think pro bike racers get a spritz from time to time..yes. Landis looks like the guys on the side of the 405 as cars rip by going 90.."look at that guy he is doing 90!!why are you not going after him"? police usual answer " because I caught you". Landis got caught..he tried to throttle the Shack and The Tour of California. Trying to get a job and a spot for Bahati. I would say from just a few minutes after he got popped and said maybe it was from drinking Jack Daniel's
he started phuking up then and hasn't stopped. Chad has trashed himself and everybody else around him..all the way down to his daughter. He is human garbage and the fact that he and Floyd are fast friends says something about the 2 of them. their career paths will lead them to 1 hr Intervention specials. If King Lance did get a squirt in 2001 Floyd's concern is way too fukin late. The guy is a punk

 

[Dr. Maserati]

probably around 185

I asked 2 questions - you have given me 1 answer.

So - it is just the riders of the Tour? Not other Pro Tour riders, or in the Pro Conti ranks?

So again - if these 185 riders are doping, and everyone knows this was does Lance deny it?
You realise you are now painting Lance as the liar & Floyd being truthful.

Also you said everyone denied "and so has floyd and EVERY other doper that was caught"..... I think you need to read the WSJ article again.

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

Joe don't you think it's a bit bold to say Lance has 7 "dirty" tour victories ? Do I think pro bike racers get a spritz from time to time..yes. Landis looks like the guys on the side of the 405 as cars rip by going 90.."look at that guy he is doing 90!!why are you not going after him"? police usual answer " because I caught you". Landis got caught..he tried to throttle the Shack and The Tour of California. Trying to get a job and a spot for Bahati. I would say from just a few minutes after he got popped and said maybe it was from drinking Jack Daniel's
he started phuking up then and hasn't stopped. Chad has trashed himself and everybody else around him..all the way down to his daughter. He is human garbage and the fact that he and Floyd are fast friends says something about the 2 of them. their career paths will lead them to 1 hr Intervention specials. If King Lance did get a squirt in 2001 Floyd's concern is way too fukin late. The guy is a punk

this^^^^^^^^^^

 

[131313]

probably around 185

I'm going to start a separate thread on this, but I'm going to mention it in response to this point. If you believe Landis, and I just don't see why he'd be lying about it, he got second in the Dauphine while riding clean. So, if you believe Landis, there's definitive proof that you can be competitive in a major stage race riding clean.

Sure, the Dauphine isn't the Tour, but while it's a prep race for Tour contenders, it's also a major objective for guys who aren't. It's certainly a major result. To me, it throws a lot of cold water on the 'it's impossible to compete clean' line of thinking.

My other takeaway from the article is that if Floyd really wanted to ride clean, he could have had a lot of success doing so. He wanted to dope. I appreciate the honesty he seemed to show, though. He didn't claim he was a victim, he put it out there: I was willing to do what it took. I do think it's a giant shame he went down that path.

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

I asked 2 questions - you have given me 1 answer.

So - it is just the riders of the Tour? Not other Pro Tour riders, or in the Pro Conti ranks?

So again - if these 185 riders are doping, and everyone knows this was does Lance deny it?
You realise you are now painting Lance as the liar & Floyd being truthful.

Also you said everyone denied "and so has floyd and EVERY other doper that was caught"..... I think you need to read the WSJ article again.

are you thick?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

are you thick?

No - just here patiently awaiting the answer to my question.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

again for the slow..........they are ALL DOPERS AT THE TOP OF THE SPORT...............

I don't quite follow you. You blast Joe for being bitter. Yet you say everyone dopes. So why is it the people who admit to doping are bitter, but those that continue to lie about it are not criticized, but held in esteem? What kind of sport do you want to see?

I'm making no comment about whether or not I believe what Landis is saying. I will comment that I have trouble remembering exact details of experiences that happened 3 months ago.

Yes, and no. You will remember large events in your life. I remember when my father suffered his stroke almost four years ago, and can probably tell you the exact date it happened, where I was when I got the phone call, how I felt, etc. But I can't remember which day last week I took ibuprofen, let alone if I took any three years ago and on which day. Floyd thus also may be mistaken as to when he actually did take testosterone, if he was that charged.

Another thing to consider though is that Floyd did say he kept extensive diaries, and Alan Lim made comments on them back in 2006 (only Alan referred to them as training diaries, and now denies everything). So who knows just what is in them?

...Landis got caught..he tried to throttle the Shack and The Tour of California. Trying to get a job and a spot for Bahati...

The only problem with this is that it's now been revealed that Floyd had been talking with USAC and USADA long before the TOC and his letters to the promoter were now known to have been written. So the chronological order of Floyd not getting into the TOC motivated him to contact USAC and USADA is incorrect.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think this is my favorite part from Armstrong's reaction to the WSJ article:

"For years, sensational stories – based on the allegations of ax-grinders -- have surfaced on the eve of the Tour for publicity reasons, and this article is simply no different."

Yes, the WSJ has little credibility, publishing sensational stories like this on a daily basis. Just as in the past ax-grinders like Michael Ashenden have come forth with allegations.

Fascinating that he seems to be the only one who has these "sensational stories" and "allegations" come out against him like this, isn't it?

 

[La Vie Claire]

The "they all dope" argument helps preserve LA's legacy in light of more evidence emerging that LA did in fact dope. "They all doped" so Lance was the best regardless. This is simply not true but it helps reconcile their man-crush with LA's doping. I think public strategies will shift from the they are "bitter and jealous" tactic to the "they all doped" argument (that is, on the forums) as more members of Postal corroborate Flandis' story.

 

[scribe]

I think this is my favorite part from Armstrong's reaction to the WSJ article:

"For years, sensational stories – based on the allegations of ax-grinders -- have surfaced on the eve of the Tour for publicity reasons, and this article is simply no different."

Yes, the WSJ has little credibility, publishing sensational stories like this on a daily basis. Just as in the past ax-grinders like Michael Ashenden have come forth with allegations.

Fascinating that he seems to be the only one who has these "sensational stories" and "allegations" come out against him like this, isn't it?

Some of my favorite highlights of the article...

Rupert Murdoch <3 Team Sky
No dope before USPS for Landis
No dope @ Phonak when Landis got there.

 

[Trousers O'bongo]

Sherwen actually said, "First blood to Armstrong".

Priceless!

 

[eleven]

I think this is my favorite part from Armstrong's reaction to the WSJ article:

"For years, sensational stories – based on the allegations of ax-grinders -- have surfaced on the eve of the Tour for publicity reasons, and this article is simply no different."

Yes, the WSJ has little credibility, publishing sensational stories like this on a daily basis. Just as in the past ax-grinders like Michael Ashenden have come forth with allegations.

Fascinating that he seems to be the only one who has these "sensational stories" and "allegations" come out against him like this, isn't it?

wait - this isn't the WSJ's credibility on the line. They are just reporting what they've been told. And they have quite often published stories reporting what others said, and later found that what those people said was wrong.

That doesn't make the WSJ less credible unless they had information to the contrary and chose not to publish it. In this case, they did publish it - the riders who denied doping at USPS.

 

[Cobblestones]

Sherwen actually said, "First blood to Armstrong".

Priceless!

Sherwen goes clinic. Totally off the script.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, there was a race on and you guys were here discussing the WSJ article...I mean, I am especially pointing at the fanboys...isn't part of you whole mantra "you guys only talk about Lance and never ride or do anything but talk about Lance." Um, your hero just put in a good ride. Maybe talk about that instead...on another thread with that topic....you know.....the one on today's stage.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

Joe don't you think it's a bit bold to say Lance has 7 "dirty" tour victories ? Do I think pro bike racers get a spritz from time to time..yes. Landis looks like the guys on the side of the 405 as cars rip by going 90.."look at that guy he is doing 90!!why are you not going after him"? police usual answer " because I caught you". Landis got caught..he tried to throttle the Shack and The Tour of California. Trying to get a job and a spot for Bahati. I would say from just a few minutes after he got popped and said maybe it was from drinking Jack Daniel's
he started phuking up then and hasn't stopped. Chad has trashed himself and everybody else around him..all the way down to his daughter. He is human garbage and the fact that he and Floyd are fast friends says something about the 2 of them. their career paths will lead them to 1 hr Intervention specials. If King Lance did get a squirt in 2001 Floyd's concern is way too fukin late. The guy is a punk

I take it you dislike whistleblowers. So does the mafia, communists and closed shops.

 

[hektoren]

First, if he transfused half a liter and his total blood volume is usually 5 liters then he put in 10% of the blood he had when he was using testosterone. Whatever was in his transfused blood would be diluted to 10% of its original value. He would have had to have been using a mega dose of testosterone.

Second, testing of FLandis' other TdF samples showed testosterone use throughout the Tour.

Some possibilities:

1) He could be lying about not using testosterone.
2) Something else he was taking contained a substance that tripped the testorone test.
3) Unbenownst to him, someone else was giving him testosterone.
4) The UCI set him up to damage the ASO, which the UCI was feuding with at the time.
5) The carbon isotope test is flawed and can produce false positives.

Testing positive while not knowingly taking testosterone does explain why he fought so hard and expended so much.

I knew the pint of blood constitutes 10% of the blood volume, but I've never read the actual numbers from Landis' test. What you're looking at here is the ratio between Testosterone/Epi-testosterone. In 2006, the general consensus in WADA was that comparing an athlete’s T/E ratio to previous or subsequent samples was much more effective in identifying testosterone doping than using a single T/E ratio in a single urine sample. Thus, Landis' test was probably compared to previous urine samples. Re-introducing his own blood drawn in a period without extra testosterone would give a 10% increase in his urine secretion. Re-introducing his own blood drawn in a period with extra testosterone would further increase his T/E-ratio. Maybe to the extent where he trigger the intra-individual variability threshold deemed natural by the experts at WADA.

Of course, there're the other possible factors you mention to consider as well, but I for one won't dismiss Landis' statements as bogus.

 

[bobs nob]

Wow, there was a race on and you guys were here discussing the WSJ article...I mean, I am especially pointing at the fanboys...isn't part of you whole mantra "you guys only talk about Lance and never ride or do anything but talk about Lance." Um, your hero just put in a good ride. Maybe talk about that instead...on another thread with that topic....you know.....the one on today's stage.

were people actually posting in here during the prologue?

They had better have ZERO interest in the tdf. That is just sad, regardless of where you stand.

 

[hrotha]

No dope before USPS for Landis
No dope @ Phonak when Landis got there.

Why is no one else commenting on this? I'm having more trouble believing Landis now than before reading this article.

 

[buckwheat]

Why is no one else commenting on this? I'm having more trouble believing Landis now than before reading this article.

Yeah, odd. FLandis says he was second in the Dauphine clean...

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

Wow, there was a race on and you guys were here discussing the WSJ article...I mean, I am especially pointing at the fanboys...isn't part of you whole mantra "you guys only talk about Lance and never ride or do anything but talk about Lance." Um, your hero just put in a good ride. Maybe talk about that instead...on another thread with that topic....you know.....the one on today's stage.

can't you afford tivo?