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The Beatles

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Tangled Tango said:
Guys you are comparing apples to oranges. It is ridiculous to compare a rock drummer, any rock drummer to the the top jazz drummers. It´s also a bit ridiculous to to say any one drummer as "the greatest ever". They all had great ideas and rhythms to contribute to the music they were playing.
Mitch Mitchel was heavily influenced by Elvin Jones and it shows but Hendrix was not composing pop and Mitch was a perfect fit.

Ringo was a great rock drummer. Certainly one of the greats. He had an amazing groove and applied some very unconvential ideas within the song context of the music the Beatles composed. He was not a technician, but who cares about that in R&R, unless you´re talking about prog-rock and drummers like Peart, Collins ect. Technical ability does not alone make one great. Back in the 50s and 60s a lot of the American rock drummers were jazz players playing simple rock beats, Motown´s a good example.

Many of the most respected drummers in the world are groove masters. Stewart Copeland was respected by jazz drummers, though he wasn´t a pyro technics type player. He had a unique and very musical approach and a great groove.

I´ve seen the Beatles, I have many concert videos of them touring and Ringo was rock solid every night for evey song. I saw one of his All Star concerts with his son playing drums, but when Ringo joined him and took over the beat changed dramatically and became the Beatle beat, the Mercy beat that his technically superior son just didn´t have.

You may of guessed that I am a drummer. Mostly jazz for the past 15 years, but I´ve played rock, funk, punk, punk funk......you name it. I´ve been a pro for many years, too many to admit to and I truly dislike the labeling of artists of any kind "the best", "the greatest". In art they just don´t apply.

Sorry for the rant. Think I´ll go put on some music.

Um, its Merseybeat, not Mercy beat. And again, this is subjective, so let me state it in less universal terms. I don't think Ringo can be mentioned in a list of even the 50 greatest drummers. I do not play professionally, but have played the drums since middle school. I am not nearly the expert that you are, but I know more than most people I would think, and my opinion is that from my subjective standpoint, he isn't all that innovative.
 
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Thoughtforfood said:
Um, its Merseybeat, not Mercy beat. And again, this is subjective, so let me state it in less universal terms. I don't think Ringo can be mentioned in a list of even the 50 greatest drummers. I do not play professionally, but have played the drums since middle school. I am not nearly the expert that you are, but I know more than most people I would think, and my opinion is that from my subjective standpoint, he isn't all that innovative.

Having played a muscial instrument before and having a good understanding of music, Beatles music is not overly complicated. It's simple.
 
Thoughtforfood said:
Um, its Merseybeat, not Mercy beat. And again, this is subjective, so let me state it in less universal terms. I don't think Ringo can be mentioned in a list of even the 50 greatest drummers. I do not play professionally, but have played the drums since middle school. I am not nearly the expert that you are, but I know more than most people I would think, and my opinion is that from my subjective standpoint, he isn't all that innovative.

Are you referring to the 50 greatest rock drummers? If so you would probably be the only one excluding Ringo from that list except for those who hate the Beatles and they would not be an objective voice here.

I disagree that he wasn´t all that innovative. In the context of 60s pop rock I think he was. As early as Rubber Soul his approached to certain songs was unique and from Revolver on he continued to apply new ideas as well as keeping a standard rock beat. One only has to listen to Sgt Pepper & Mystery Tour and you have someone playing things no one else was. I would call that innovation. You may not like what he played or those records, but that´s not the point and I don´t think being an innovative drummer is the criterium to being one of the great "pop-rock" drummers.

Just my opinion. As another ranter used to say long ago: "never mind"
 
Thoughtforfood said:
I was just pointing out that the I find innovative drummers much more worthy of "greatest drummers ever" than is Ringo. You have people like Moon, and Peart, McNeily, and many others just from the rock genre that are much better artists. Then you start getting into jazz drummers and he falls down the list by leaps and bounds. He isn't even in the same league as Rich or Elvin Jones, not even close.

as a classically trained professional i have to say that you are wrong. buddy rich
is most likely the most amazing chops guy ever. the thing is, chops are only a
small part of the equation. moon had no technique really, but he had chops anyway and he was a 'lead' style drummer. in the biz, peart is not highly regarded. very wooden and stiff. good chops, not much feel. cool guy though.
he rides too. in the drum world, ringo is highly regarded. that much i know.
the public can have their opinions, but we know who the real guys are. no offense.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
usedtobefast said:
as a classically trained professional i have to say that you are wrong. buddy rich
is most likely the most amazing chops guy ever. the thing is, chops are only a
small part of the equation. moon had no technique really, but he had chops anyway and he was a 'lead' style drummer. in the biz, peart is not highly regarded. very wooden and stiff. good chops, not much feel. cool guy though.
he rides too. in the drum world, ringo is highly regarded. that much i know.
the public can have their opinions, but we know who the real guys are. no offense.

None taken. I am not a professional, I just never found his drumming that interesting. Mac Mcneilly is still my favorite to this day regardless of any consideration, Copeland is fantastic, Chester Thompson always seemed great to me. Ringo is a member of a band I have little desire to listen to, so maybe I am missing something? I am currently a fan of Taylor Hawkins and Dave Grohl.

And lastly, The Beatles suck. I think I have been over that. I am an expert on what I like and people like you can have your opinion, but in my brain, i know who the real guys are, no offense.
 
krebs303 said:
Lennon, asked if Starr was the best drummer in the world, jokingly replied, "He's not even the best drummer in The Beatles!",

pauly is a good drummer, but he sounds like ringo. they are both left handed, but the difference is ringo plays a right handed kit. when he does a fill, he leads
with his left hand, not right,as us right handed guys do. we are taught that way.
his drums on say, Rain, were nothing short of brilliant. but then i love The Beatles. TFF is still a bro, 'cause music is a healer. all of it. good, bad or indifferent.
i know taylor hawkins from way back and he is great guy too. jimmy sullivan, of 'avenged sevenfold', was an amazing player. i knew him since he was like 15,may he RIP.
re: chester thompson, i remember the Genisis 'trick of the tail' tour at Winterland in San Francisco in i think 1977 and both him and Phil Collins were playing drums. then Phil would
just sing and Chester would hold it down. a really great show, very good.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
usedtobefast said:
pauly is a good drummer, but he sounds like ringo. they are both left handed, but the difference is ringo plays a right handed kit. when he does a fill, he leads
with his left hand, not right,as us right handed guys do. we are taught that way.
his drums on say, Rain, were nothing short of brilliant. but then i love The Beatles. TFF is still a bro, 'cause music is a healer. all of it. good, bad or indifferent.

I just think you need to listen to more of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSivVYwKwZc&feature=PlayList&p=D6584C042D8B4D66&index=0&playnext=1

I mean, yea, it sucks, but in a good way.

Anyway, I heard this quote a couple of days ago on a radio sports show of all places, but it was hilarious. Plus I love HST

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
Hunter S. Thompson
 
Thoughtforfood said:
I just think you need to listen to more of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSivVYwKwZc&feature=PlayList&p=D6584C042D8B4D66&index=0&playnext=1

I mean, yea, it sucks, but in a good way.

Anyway, I heard this quote a couple of days ago on a radio sports show of all places, but it was hilarious. Plus I love HST

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
Hunter S. Thompson

HST was a brilliant guy for sure. i have a good buddy who plays in and is an original member of China White and man, he hits hard. it took me a while to warm up to some of the punk and metal stuff, mostly because the records sounded so thin. no bottom end. once you get past that, it has it's own charm.
 

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Thoughtforfood said:
And this, I still remember being blown away by these guys sometime around 1992 or 93: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GphT2XhCbMk

But here is my secret: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toUedUW2IYE

I love bluegrass, especially new grass.

And give me some Parliament any day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UypeE3zTwBs&feature=related

Bela Fleck is one of the worlds great musicians period, no just the greatest banjo player.
Jerry Douglas is the greatest dobro player ever and I call "Allison Krauss with Union Station" the best acoustic band I've ever heard. When they perform live they don't use pick ups on any of the instruments. They do it all with microphones. I love the sound of great wooden instruments.
I own a Taylor 814CE and I really miss my old Martin D-28.
 

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auscyclefan94 said:
Having played a muscial instrument before and having a good understanding of music, Beatles music is not overly complicated. It's simple.

I'm not sure what your point is.

As far as complexity goes, everybody is using the same 12 notes.

For the most part the ear wants to hear just 3 things. A melody, a chord to support that melody, and a bass line.
 

Carboncrank

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Playing bass and singing at the same time is very very hard.
Think about it. How many lead singer these day play bass.
Sting is good at it.

Paul McCartney was the best at it I ever saw.

A great bass player too.

Aren't the Beatles great!!!
 
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Carboncrank said:
Playing bass and singing at the same time is very very hard.
Think about it. How many lead singer these day play bass.
Sting is good at it.

Paul McCartney was the best at it I ever saw.

A great bass player too.

Aren't the Beatles great!!!

They are!!!

I was to listening to 'Drive my Car' today, that's an awesome bassline, amongst many others. Paul's amazing.
 
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Carboncrank said:
Bela Fleck is one of the worlds great musicians period, no just the greatest banjo player.
Jerry Douglas is the greatest dobro player ever and I call "Allison Krauss with Union Station" the best acoustic band I've ever heard. When they perform live they don't use pick ups on any of the instruments. They do it all with microphones. I love the sound of great wooden instruments.
I own a Taylor 814CE and I really miss my old Martin D-28.

It's Alison with one L... Allison Krause is a different person...or was..
Jerry Douglas sucks..He is too busy showing off than playing with any taste.
David Lindley OTOH..
 
My parents were Beatles fans. Consequently as a kid, in the 70's, I was exposed to their music.

As an adult, when I hear one of their songs, I listen with a bit of nostalgia and can now apprecitate (more than I did as a kid) the quaintish charm in some of their British melodies. Making use of such instruments as the violin and the trumpet, along with that image of Lennon and his spectacles, demonstrated a certain class in style that most modern bands, with better so called musicians, simply lack.

They may not have been the greatest musicians, but their's was a class act that is now of a legendary status - especially with John's way of going out.

A couple of years ago I saw that documentary film about Lennon and, despite his narcisism and prophet on a mission megalomania, I found his persona simply grand in a weird and ecentric way. I certainly quite prefer his megalomania over Bono's today.