The best climbers in the world?

[inri2000]

Gilbert will be chasing stage wins. He isn't considered a stage racer and definitely not a grand tour gc contender.

Okay I will bite one last time, maybe he isn't considered a stage racer but he has won a stage the last time he participated in 2008.

Was Jalabert considered a gc contender before his 4th place at the tour in 95?

 

[Parrulo]

Okay I will bite one last time, maybe he isn't considered a stage racer but he has won a stage the last time he participated in 2008.

Was Jalabert considered a gc contender before his 4th place at the tour in 95?

have you watched last year's vuelta? because if you had you would see how silly what your saying is. gilbert is god in terms of hilly classics but as soon as the length of the climb goes past a few couple of k's he is toasted

besides jaja was on some high quality fuel that "can't" be used this days

 

[will10]

Okay I will bite one last time, maybe he isn't considered a stage racer but he has won a stage the last time he participated in 2008.

Was Jalabert considered a gc contender before his 4th place at the tour in 95?

Put it this way. If Gilbert finishes top 10 on any real mountain stage in this Tour de France (excluding long breakaways obviously), I will post you £10 of my own money.

 

[inri2000]

have you watched last year's vuelta? because if you had you would see how silly what your saying is. gilbert is god in terms of hilly classics but as soon as the length of the climb goes past a few couple of k's he is toasted

besides jaja was on some high quality fuel that "can't" be used this days

No mate, i only saw the prolouge ttt and yawned afterwards, I followed Andy gate though which was quite fun, but then Cancellara ruined it by leaving.

 

[inri2000]

Put it this way. If Gilbert finishes top 10 on any real mountain stage in this Tour de France (excluding long breakaways obviously), I will post you £10 of my own money.

Porte ended up 7th in the Giro after a long breakaway, so are you saying it's not a valid way to gain time?

 

[nvpacchi]

Samu is very explosive. Hes the only guy Valverde is afraid of on Valverde finishes.

Watch him put seconds into the others on a short finish in GP Mig this year.

Samu not too explosive on longer climbs though, but in Valv finishes like 2006 worlds he's real explosive(unless he's racing against Kloden ).

Would love to see Anton and Schleck go against each other in top form.

1. Conta
2. Schleck
2.25. Anton
3. Basso
4. Samu

 

[Ildabaoth]

Porte ended up 7th in the Giro after a long breakaway, so are you saying it's not a valid way to gain time?

A valid way to gain time, but not a valid way to put him among the best climbers in the world.

 

[Parrulo]

No mate, i only saw the prolouge ttt and yawned afterwards, I followed Andy gate though which was quite fun, but then Cancellara ruined it by leaving.

then let me tell you what happened. gilbert won a stage with a small uphill finish at the end and got the red. but as soon as the road when slightly uphill (if i recall correctly it was on a 2nd cathegory) he got dropped like a stone.

Porte ended up 7th in the Giro after a long breakaway, so are you saying it's not a valid way to gain time?

you are missreading his posts. he means that the only way gilbet could gain time on the heads of state would be on a break away but he would need like 1 hour on that breakaway because as soon as the peloton hits a real mountain he would be shot of the back and would be losing dozens of minutes a day. so even with a big break he has no chance at the top 10. he himself knows that and says he is only there for the hilly stages early in the race

A valid way to gain time, but not a valid way to put him among the best climbers in the world.

very well said

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Even with me hinting it to you you completely missed the " ". . . . sight

Did gesink work for menchov? yes a great work mostly on madeleine . Did gesink paced every1 on the tourmalet? he prolly did tbh there wasn't a lot of tv time for that group as every1 was focused on the battle up the road but i will take your word and say he did.

i never mentioned rodriguez but i will bite here, did rodriguez win a stage? yes. gesink? hmm . . . .

did gesink ever attacked at the tour? any breakaways? was he at the front on the chain gate stage? or was he struggling to keep up on a group paced by VDB2?

so his presence even tho noticeable on the GC ranks wasn't that much noticeable on the road for the normal person not completely obsessed with him and his awesomeness

see i like gesink and think he is amazing talent and has a bright future ahead of him but he still has to prove himself on a GT and to do that he first needs to peak for the tour and not get to his peak on the TdS

now you can go ahead with your "" smilies thats just my opinion

p.s. and i have to agree with you on rodriguez being massively overrated as a climber. this giro is proving that

Gesink did attack to Morzine, Gesink also did all the work on the Tourmalet, but you make it "mostly Madeleine", guess you haven't watched the stage to the Tourmalet?

I urge you to go watch it now

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I also always like to point to the Tour de Suisse 2008 where Anton got dropped by such climbing talent as Stijn Devolder among others

Antón's target that year was the Vuelta. You, as a Schlecks fan, should know more than anybody the folly of using results months away from the events they peak for, unless you want me to produce the list of riders who've outclimbed Andy at races like Tirreno-Adriatico and California (and the Vuelta) again. Which you hopefully don't.

Judge Antón's 2008 on the Vuelta, where he was the only man who could go with Contador and Valverde's attacks in the early mountain stages, but he crashed out before the Angliru, and made a mess of his 2009 season by missing most of the offseason with injury.

Also, that was three years ago now, and on one of three mountain stages. Do we consider that Vincenzo Nibali is a poor climber because at the Tour 2008 (which was a season target) he was outclimbed on the Alpe by such climbing gods as Mario Aerts, Alexandre Botcharov and Koos Moerenhout (not to mention that he came in at the same time as Erik freaking Zabel)? And I should also point out that Antón won the first mountain stage of that race and finished on the overall podium, so not exactly a poor show.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Oh, and let's throw the names of Mara Abbott and Emma Pooley into the hat too.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Or a new topic, who is the best puncheur? Gilbert or Marianne Vos?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Gilbert's the better puncheur, Marianne the better all-rounder.

 

[vcampbell]

What about Bauke, Bradley, Fabian and Levi? Actually they are the top2-5 behind Tiago.

 

[The Hitch]

No mate, i only saw the prolouge ttt and yawned afterwards, I followed Andy gate though which was quite fun, but then Cancellara ruined it by leaving.

Cancellara left? as i recall he was there on the stage 17 time trial finishing 4th or 3rd or something, many days after Andrew left.

Porte ended up 7th in the Giro after a long breakaway, so are you saying it's not a valid way to gain time?

It is a valid way to get time, he just wont send you his money if it happens

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Porte ended up 7th in the Giro after a long breakaway, so are you saying it's not a valid way to gain time?

Sure it's a valid way of gaining time, but the topic was on climbers - not GC performances. Noone in their right mind would argue that Porte was the 7th best climber last year just as noone would argue that Pereiro Sio was among the best climbers when he won TDF in 2006.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Oh, and let's throw the names of Mara Abbott and Emma Pooley into the hat too.

Watts/kilo says no.

 

[The Hitch]

Sure it's a valid way of gaining time, but the topic was on climbers - not GC performances. Noone in their right mind would argue that Porte was the 7th best climber last year just as noone would argue that Pereiro Sio was among the best climbers when he won TDF in 2006.

Hugo youve got it all wrong

Porte went from first with a 12 minute lead to the eventual winner, after his break to seventh with a 7 and a half minute deficit.

Perreiro went from 1st with a 1 minute lead to 2nd with a 3 minute deficit.

One held his own in the mountains, and was among the best, even taking much time from Flandis on one stage.

The other did not and lost more time on his first mountain stage, then Perreiro lost in the entire rest of the Tour.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Watts/kilo says no.

Watts/kg relative to competition may be different though. The scientific approach only tells half the story. It's no good having the best w/kg in the world if you race like an imbecile, but a smart rider can shake superior climbers with tactical racing and judicious use of teammates & doing deals (Piepoli, for example, was a master of doing deals).

Remember, Emma Pooley is one of the tiniest pro women and she still weighs more than José Rujano.

 

[Ryaguas]

Who is the best? At what time of year? On what products? Against what opposition?

I'll list them in my order without really touching on the Clinic implications.

1. Contador. Day in, day out, he's the best. You cannot be as dominant as he is without a ton of natural talent. Say what you want in the Clinic, but he's consistent all the time and cycling is getting cleaner and slower in the last year or so. If everyone raced clean I have no reason to suspect he wouldn't win all the time like he does now.
2. Andy Schleck. Week in, week out, he's crap. LA type rider. Do I naturally think he's marvelous? Nope, I think the Clinic answers most of his performances. Last years Tour he was on par with Contador, which for him was a HUGE improvement. A month or two nefore at the ToC he was crap. He's the best of the rest when trying, which is usually only at LBL or the Tour. Plus, he's better by quite a bit when he goes hard than everyone bar AC.
3. Valverde or Samu. Good all the time. I think the only guy with a hope in hell of beating Contador overall is naturally going to be an all rounder. My vote goes to Valverde.
4. Anton or Rujano. Majestic, cool and damn awesome when on song. In the hills, they're amazing.
5. A diesel. Which means I have to tier them from here on out and pair them with like riders.. But consideration must be given to where people race (parcours) and who the opposition is. Meaning Evans comes first here. Good everywhere against everyone. He'll make the Tour podium this year.

First bracket: Nibali and Basso. Both have won a GT in the last 12 months, Vincenzo has matured a ton since last years Giro. He's second to Contador at the Giro right now and has some solid climbing efforts to his name. Ivan outlasted everyone at last years Giro. Enough said.
Second Bracket: Menchov. He came third at last years Giro and is strong over 3 weeks. He'd dangerous. Scarponi. Can't put him ahead of Basso, but he's damn consistent. Should be higher actually. Forget his placement. I rank him up there with Evans.
Bracket 3: Gesink and Jurgen Van den Broucke. Obvious reasons, they were fighting for a top 5 in last years Tour. Franck Schleck. He's about where these two are, that is when he doesn't fall down.
Bracket 4: Kloden, maybe Horner. Obvious reasons, both do well enough all round all year round. Have shown climbing prowess at Giro's and Tours in recent years. Only the Shack race the ToC hard. If Horner turns up at the Tour and blitzes everyone, his claims will stand. He won't. It would SCREAM DOPER! Levi couldn't beat Mick Rogers at last year ToC. Enough said. There team is in enough trouble.
Bracket 5: The rest, Kreuziger, Hesjedal, Vande Velde, Vino, I guess even throw in Nieve and Gadret on that list. Bottle can make this list and Rodriguez. They do well enough, but lose big time sooner or later, often in chunks on multiple days. Top 10 is a possibilty, even a stage win, but they ain't the poster boys for dancing on the pedals.

The list and requirements on how to rank climbers is huge. It's best to look at the parcours. Nibali ain't the best up steep climbs, but he can pace himself and come back. Meaning Rujano or Anton might get in a break, but they pay for their effort. Nibali gauges his efforts because his physiology isn't as suited to blasting up mountains and overall makes more time, advancing him on GC. Place the parcours in context with the race. Example, the Ardennes, Gilbert should make this list, but we all know how good he is in a GT. Short, steep climb at the end of a long stage, he's damn near unbeatable. Should this not rate? In the proper context, yes, which is classics, in a GT, not really. He's arguably not even Climbing jersey material, but the man has his moments in the hills, not the mountains.

NOTE: The top list, the one's I didn't Tier, I consider to be natural climbers. They make climbing look easy. The rest either have a sharp punch, Rodriguez, are pure Diesels, or look like pure climbers, but never seem to gap the diesels like the first group can. A guy in the second Tier can beat one of the top group who isn't AC, if and only if they are consistent all round. Lose timem but only a bit in the hills, make it back in their chrono. Andy Schleck can be beaten this way.

Oh and Dim. Horner is not the second best climber in the world. Anton or Samu is after Andy Schleck. If Ricco were riding, I'd give it to him. Consistency will get you a GT, but not necessarily onto my list of worlds best climbers. I like the people who slug it out, but climbing is meant to look good. Gotta do that to make the list.

I like this pick... match 95% of my picks but I still dont get why ppl put Andrew in 2nd place... You have to be always on the top everytime an stage finish in a MTF... That's why Alberto is the best... He is always the best and always drop everyone or finish with the bests... Andrew can only perform in LBL or Le Tour...
I think that the 2nd must/could be Riccó... He was always or most of the time with the top climbers when the road went uphill...

I also always like to point to the Tour de Suisse 2008 where Anton got dropped by such climbing talent as Stijn Devolder among others

Are you going to take that path?? Seriously?

Are you Danish btw?

Nop Christian is french IIRC...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

iirc Christian is Lëtzebuergesch but living in France.

 

[El Pistolero]

iirc Christian is Lëtzebuergesch but living in France.

He is, I asked him once.

 

[Christian]

iirc Christian is Lëtzebuergesch but living in France.

That is correct, although I am back in Luxembourg for a couple of months now. Where is Ryaguas from? I assumed Colombia because of his resemblance to Ryo Hazuki, but then again Ryo Hazuki seems to personnally know D_T so maybe he's a Colombian living in the Netherlands.

Anyhow I merely pointed out (not comment) a counter-performance of a certain rider, I don't see what the big fuss is about or what it has to do with Andy Schleck? Is Anton a protected rider now on the forum?

 

[The Hitch]

That is correct, although I am back in Luxembourg for a couple of months now. Where is Ryaguas from? I assumed Colombia because of his resemblance to Ryo Hazuki, but then again Ryo Hazuki seems to personnally know D_T so maybe he's a Colombian living in the Netherlands.

Anyhow I merely pointed out (not comment) a counter-performance of a certain rider, I don't see what the big fuss is about or what it has to do with Andy Schleck? Is Anton a protected rider now on the forum?

Nah some of us just break Ruben's balls because he gave us his real name - Ruben Limpe World BMX champion or some such

I thought Ryaguas was Colombian too because he kept hyping them and writing "Yes" and "=D" every time they did well but then I realised he does that with everyone except Cancellara and Andy. Even when Anthony Roux wins a stage in Circuit Loraine hes up on twitter saying how happy he is about that but the fact that he participates on Marca forum betrays his nationality (you cant participate unless your Spanish). Also Ryaguas calls DT Ruben because he is also called Ruben, well Ruben Dario.

The one that knows DT personally is Ryo Hazuki. Though Moondance once sent him money ( a taste to the Don or something like that)

Much of this is in the "outside of the forum" thread. The rest you pick up if you participate in threads on the forum - not just the Andy Schleck ones

 

[Ryaguas]

That is correct, although I am back in Luxembourg for a couple of months now. Where is Ryaguas from? I assumed Colombia because of his resemblance to Ryo Hazuki, but then again Ryo Hazuki seems to personnally know D_T so maybe he's a Colombian living in the Netherlands.

Anyhow I merely pointed out (not comment) a counter-performance of a certain rider, I don't see what the big fuss is about or what it has to do with Andy Schleck? Is Anton a protected rider now on the forum?

Ryo is dutchie...
Je suis CH'tis
But since You support Andrew is my duty to attack you in a personal way...