Teams & Riders The Big 6

[peterfin]

To me "the big 6" is all about inevitably. It's fact that you basically know prior to the race that they will write the story. They will define where and how the race unfolds, many times in a freak show that makes the others merely figurants. It's as if we are watching the Avengers on bicycles! It has so much drama and awe that Netflix should start a series on them. We actually need the world to know! Cycling is such an amazing sport and these riders lift the game to amazing heights. I actually hope that we get more than just the big 6. I hope that the Girmay's of this world join the Avengers and absorb a whole continents that still have little cycling history in this amazing sport.

 

[Blanco]

But it is an impressive quality.

Yes it is. But not THE quality. It takes something more, something extra.

 

[tobydawq]

Yes it is. But not THE quality. It takes something more, something extra.

That is something extra, apparently just not the thing that gives you major wins.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

When WVA wins stage 5 of le tdf to Caen or somewheree like that he cements his place among Roglic, Vander Poel, Evenpoel and Pogacar. No doubt.

 

[geisterhome]

I define the "Big X" as riders who are clear favorites to win ANY race they enter in shape and are targeting. That's a very high bar.

Thus, atm it's Remco, Pogacar, MvdP and Vingegaard as first rank, with Roglic and Wout not quite there, maybe just a smidgen of doubt surrounding their chances. If Wout won a few more times and Roglic crashed less, there would be zero doubt.

But when any of those 6 line up, there's very short odds that one of them will win. They have the ability to outclass the field.

Interesting to me is how fast Alaf dropped off that list. In 2019-20 he was nearly a lock to podium a wide range of races. Now, he's an expensive domestique.

Of the top 6 today, Vingo and Roglic look the most vulnerable, Vingegaard bc I'm not sure the desire to be no. 1 is there and Roglic just bc of his age.

A fall from grace like the one of ALAPHILIPPE could happen to any of the riders from that list as well. Also just 9 months ago nobody would have had Vingegaard up there I guess. So it's a rather volatile selection.

MVDP has a lot of miles under his belt and backproblems and is approaching 30. Similar story with Wout. Vingegaard is somewhat unproven. ROGLIČ is getting up there in age. Crashes happen all the time to any rider.. I would bet within 2 years that big 6 will look a lot different.

 

[red_flanders]

I'm thankful we have a core set of incredible riders to watch, who gives a *** what order someone puts them in. We have riders who race to win, who attack, who have panache, who fight in every race they enter. It's such a stark change from the previous eras where basically you had some great classics guys like Boonen and Cancellara, and a couple attacking GT guys like Contador. The rest was crushingly boring. It's an incredible era, so much better than anything we've seen for 40 years. Last time it was this good was the late 80s with Hinault, Fignon, Lemond, and Kelly, all huge champions, legends of the sport, racing all year, in all terrain. Incredible.

Then take a second and imagine how much people hated Merckx. The dude literally won 1/3 of the races he entered, over 500. People freaking HATED him. Every jersey in the Tour one year. If there were message boards back then...well maybe it would have been better and the one a-hole who punched him and ruined his Tour would have had a better outlet for his venom.

 

[houtdffan]

The Van Aert disrespect is one of this forum's worst traits.

I didn't particularly enjoy the Valverde disrespect either, but I got where it was coming from.

But this with Van Aert is just inexplicable. Anybody who has eyes and watches the races and not only their results should be able to see that he is without a doubt in the elite league.

If WVA were elite, he'd get elite results

He is the modern version of George Hincapie, except he's allowed to chase sprints. Hincapie could get into breaks and would be effective on the final climb. Even won at Pla D'Adet on a 6 climb stage. Had decent but not great results in 1 day races, similar to WVA

 

[red_flanders]

If WVA were elite, he'd get elite results

He is the modern version of George Hincapie, except he's allowed to chase sprints. Hincapie could get into breaks and would be effective on the final climb. Even won at Pla D'Adet on a 6 climb stage. Had decent but not great results in 1 day races, similar to WVA

In a strong field, that might be the most absurd statement I've ever read on this forum. That's the kindest way I can put that.

 

[Gratemans]

If WVA were elite, he'd get elite results

He is the modern version of George Hincapie, except he's allowed to chase sprints. Hincapie could get into breaks and would be effective on the final climb. Even won at Pla D'Adet on a 6 climb stage. Had decent but not great results in 1 day races, similar to WVA

Of the 6 we're talking about, he's definitely not my favourite but come on, you can't actually be serious. I've got a feeling you're perhaps a big fan of a certain other cyclist on the list?

 

[tobydawq]

If WVA were elite, he'd get elite results

He is the modern version of George Hincapie, except he's allowed to chase sprints. Hincapie could get into breaks and would be effective on the final climb. Even won at Pla D'Adet on a 6 climb stage. Had decent but not great results in 1 day races, similar to WVA

He has nothing to do with Hincapie.

 

[houtdffan]

In a strong field, that might be the most absurd statement I've ever read on this forum. That's the kindest way I can put that.

That;'s what his palmares say. He can win high mountain stages from breakwaway, so did Hincapie. He is very good but not dominant in 1 day races, so was HIncapie

The main difference is Hincapie went into GTs all for his leader and didn't freelance at all. He was often in breaks to provide key support on the final climb (see stage 19 of the 2003 Vuelta or the infamous Peyresourde stage of 2007). Had them been WVA, everyone here would be singing his praises to high heavens

 

[rallybanana]

This thread needs a poll to determine what should constitute the Big X group in cycling. The options appear to be

Big 6
Big 5 - Everyone except Vingegaard because he's a one-trick pony who doesn't do one-day races and looks like a beanpole
Big 5 - Everyone except WVA because he's a glorified Hincapiesque stage-hunting mountain dom who doesn't win the big races
Big 5 - Everyone except Roglic because of his age and he crashes too often
Big 5 - Everyone except MvdP because he's weak on longer climbs
Big 4 - Everyone except Vingegaard and MvdP because they're too 1-dimensional
Big 4 - Everyone except MvdP and WVA because they don't compete for GC
Big 4 - Everyone except Roglic and WVA because they haven't won a big race in the last two seasons
Big 3 - Pogacar, Evenepoel, and Roglic because they're Merckx/Hinault-like riders
Big 2 - Pogacar and Evenepoel because they remind us of Merckx
Big 1 - Pogacar because Evenepoel is not versatile enough

 

[Big Doopie]

A fall from grace like the one of ALAPHILIPPE could happen to any of the riders from that list as well. Also just 9 months ago nobody would have had Vingegaard up there I guess. So it's a rather volatile selection.

What about Remco after his crash and ill-timed first giro. There were many here who thought (reveled in the hope) that he would never amount to more than a Belgian Spilak!! Bwahaha!!

Ayuso will likely get the same treatment soon.

What have you done for me lately?

Cycling fans can be very fickle.

Not me though, of course.

 

[Sciatic]

That;'s what his palmares say. He can win high mountain stages from breakwaway, so did Hincapie. He is very good but not dominant in 1 day races, so was HIncapie

The main difference is Hincapie went into GTs all for his leader and didn't freelance at all. He was often in breaks to provide key support on the final climb (see stage 19 of the 2003 Vuelta or the infamous Peyresourde stage of 2007). Had them been WVA, everyone here would be singing his praises to high heavens

You’ve really worked hard to make this thread another inane p!ssing contest. Aren’t there enough threads already full of that?

 

[Tonton]

Times have changed: we don't have to wonder if Valverde is 5th or if Dumoulin belongs to the discussion. I don't like the Big-6 thing...in fact, I see two Big-4s.

One-Day Races: we saw one of the most entertaining cyclocross seasons ever and it spilled onto the early road races; back and forth between MVP and Wout. They belong to this club, both of them. Wout is on the short end of the stick but he's one gift away from a very good spring. Pidcock is a trouble-maker and a fantastic rider, but he's not quite there Then we just got Pog and more Pog and it's too bad that we didn't get the Pog vs. Remco super fight at LBL that we wanted. Bummer. But give Evenepoel his props: what a win!

GT and stage races in general: Roglic beat Remco recently and Vingo beat Pog at last year's TdF, I give Primoz and Jonas the respect that they earned: they belong in the discussion, and they both won their stage races this season with style. Like Pog. Remco fell short...he was rogged by Rog who gets rogged by Pog.

Only one rider makes both the One-Day and the GT lists at this time: Tadej Pogacar.

ASO needs to put a ton of money on the table, get the riders' wish list, make it happen in a "balanced" design and some here can help them: give LS $25K, you won't believe it.

Not a bad thread .

 

[Extinction]

Times have changed: we don't have to wonder if Valverde is 5th or if Dumoulin belongs to the discussion. I don't like the Big-6 thing...in fact, I see two Big-4s.

One-Day Races: we saw one of the most entertaining cyclocross seasons ever and it spilled onto the early road races; back and forth between MVP and Wout. They belong to this club, both of them. Wout is on the short end of the stick but he's one gift away from a very good spring. Pidcock is a trouble-maker and a fantastic rider, but he's not quite there Then we just got Pog and more Pog and it's too bad that we didn't get the Pog vs. Remco super fight at LBL that we wanted. Bummer. But give Evenepoel his props: what a win!

GT and stage races in general: Roglic beat Remco recently and Vingo beat Pog at last year's TdF, I give Primoz and Jonas the respect that they earned: they belong in the discussion, and they both won their stage races this season with style. Like Pog. Remco fell short...he was rogged by Rog who gets rogged by Pog.

Only one rider makes both the One-Day and the GT lists at this time: Tadej Pogacar.

ASO needs to put a ton of money on the table, get the riders' wish list, make it happen in a "balanced" design and some here can help them: give LS $25K, you won't believe it.

Not a bad thread .

How do you compare Pog emphatically losing the Tour to Vingeggard, to Remco marginally losing Catalunya to Roglic when neither were in peak shape? If they stay on their bikes, only the Giro will be comparable.

 

[DNP-Old]

TIL: finishing 2nd in almost every race on the planet is not elite.

 

[IndianCyclist]

There are only 2 kings- The king of the Hills and Grand tours - Pogacar and the King of the cobbles- MVDP. THe next question to be asked is who these kings consider to be their biggest rivals. For the cobbles in the order will be Pogacar, WVA, Pidcock, Alaphillipe. For the GTs, it will be Vingegaard, Roglic, Evenepoel. For the Hills it will be Evenepoel, Roglic, Alaphillipe(assuming he gets back to form). The big size changes per the terrain type.

 

[BigCoward]

I really hope Bernal can gatecrash the party. He has better palmares then JV and is the same age. Such a shame that he probably won't be at full speed this year as the lack of tt km would have been great for him against Pog and JV.

 

[Extinction]

There are only 2 kings- The king of the Hills and Grand tours - Pogacar and the King of the cobbles- MVDP. THe next question to be asked is who these kings consider to be their biggest rivals. For the cobbles in the order will be Pogacar, WVA, Pidcock, Alaphillipe. For the GTs, it will be Vingegaard, Roglic, Evenepoel. For the Hills it will be Evenepoel, Roglic, Alaphillipe(assuming he gets back to form). The big size changes per the terrain type.

So how do you rate Vingeggard dropping Pog like a stone in the mountains? Queen?

 

[gunara]

Seemingly not enough reason to convince some people that Wout belong to this list.

How about him gifting The Greatest a classic win? Something that any of the other 5 - except maybe Rog - can only dream of. Check mate.

 

[Aimar16]

	One-day races	Grand Tours	Stage races
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆	Pog	Pog	Pog
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆	MvdP	Vingegaard	Rog
☆ ☆ ☆	Remco	Rog	Vingegaard
☆ ☆	WvA	Remco	Remco
☆	Rog	WvA	WvA
	Vingegaard	MvdP	MvdP

 

[Salvarani]

	One-day races	Grand Tours	Stage races
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆	Pog	Pog	Pog
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆	MvdP	Vingegaard	Rog
☆ ☆ ☆	Remco	Rog	Vingegaard
☆ ☆	WvA	Remco	Remco
☆	Rog	WvA	WvA
	Vingegaard	MvdP	MvdP

If one star would be one point, the score would be:

Pog - 15
Rog - 8
Vingegaard & Remco - 7
MVDP & WVA - 4

 

[Aimar16]

If one star would be one point, the score would be:

Pog - 15
Rog - 8
Vingegaard & Remco - 7
MVDP & WVA - 4

Maybe the points should be weighted.

One-day races: 25 - 18 - 13 - 7 - 3 - 1
GT - 20 - 17 - 13 - 7 - 3 - 1
Stage races - 15 - 13 - 10 - 7 - 3 - 1 - I just quickly wrote the points as I feel them, there is no great science behind it or much thought.

Pog - 60
Ving - 27
Rog - 27
Remco - 19
MvdP - 18
WvA - 9

 

[Salvarani]

Maybe the points should be weighted.

One-day races: 25 - 18 - 13 - 7 - 3 - 1
GT - 20 - 17 - 13 - 7 - 3 - 1
Stage races - 15 - 13 - 10 - 7 - 3 - 1 - I just quickly wrote the points as I feel them, there is no great science behind it or much thought.

Pog - 60
Ving - 27
Rog - 27
Remco - 19
MvdP - 18
WvA - 9

It looks accurate.