Teams & Riders The Big 6

[tobydawq]

MvdP does about 5 real race days a year. I don't know how he deserves to be in the same league as the guys who win stage races and GTs all year round.

No, very mysterious that a guy who won three of the six biggest one-day races last year and finished second in another one is rated highly.

 

[Berniece]

MvdP does about 5 real race days a year. I don't know how he deserves to be in the same league as the guys who win stage races and GTs all year round.

Big 6 is about riders that start in a race, and are very likely to win it, and there's not much to do about it.

 

[Netserk]

The Fabulous Five and the Superfluous Sixth is still more true than the Big Six.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Van der Poel: the best classics rider of the 21st century

Pogacar: the most talented rider of the 21st century

Vingegard: the best tour de France rider of the 21st century.

then

Wva: wins one semi classic every spring and uses his thermonuclear watts to do a few stupid breakaways in the tour

Remco: very good rider but comes up short in every big objective unless he's racing Qunten hermens and pidcock up la redoute

Roglic: just not good anymore. Top riders don't fear Roglic like they did 2 years ago.

 

[KZD]

Of course Van der Poel deserves being a part of the so called big6.

I don't know if he is the best classics rider of the 21st century because Pogačar exists, but he has just won two monuments and the World Championships last year unlike his biggest rival, Van Aert, who may be a better stage racer than he is but seems to be unable to win the biggest one-day races.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

No, very mysterious that a guy who won three of the six biggest one-day races last year and finished second in another one is rated highly.

2023 was a very lucky year for him, but things could easily have turned out differently.
MSR - Everything went his way in the race.
Flanders - 2nd best
Roubaix - He was extremely lucky
Glasgow - Undoubtedly the strongest, although his opponents hadn't had a 3-week holiday in France.

 

[Didinho]

2023 was a very lucky year for him, but things could easily have turned out differently.
MSR - Everything went his way in the race.
Flanders - 2nd best
Roubaix - He was extremely lucky
Glasgow - Undoubtedly the strongest, although his opponents hadn't had a 3-week holiday in France.

Don’t know what you have against Mathieu, but let it go. You’re gonna be frustrated a lot in the next years.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Don’t know what you have against Mathieu, but let it go. You’re gonna be frustrated a lot in the next years.

I have nothing against him, on the contrary he is one of my favourites. Undoubtedly, his raw power and peak performance are among the best ever. But his whole season hinges on his performance in 5 days. Which, for me, takes a little bit of the magic out of it.

 

[tobydawq]

2023 was a very lucky year for him, but things could easily have turned out differently.
MSR - Everything went his way in the race.
Flanders - 2nd best
Roubaix - He was extremely lucky
Glasgow - Undoubtedly the strongest, although his opponents hadn't had a 3-week holiday in France.

Uh, no...

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Big 6 is about riders that start in a race, and are very likely to win it, and there's not much to do about it.

Not only does MvdP not regularly win the races it enters, he has no intention of being competitive.

 

[KZD]

2023 was a very lucky year for him, but things could easily have turned out differently.
MSR - Everything went his way in the race.
Flanders - 2nd best
Roubaix - He was extremely lucky
Glasgow - Undoubtedly the strongest, although his opponents hadn't had a 3-week holiday in France.

Saying that Van der Poel had a 3 week holiday in France is judt disrespectful, he was the best leadout man of the race and he got sick in the beginning of the second week but still got into breakaways even though few stages actually suited him.

As for Roubaix, he was lucky but there is no certainty that a Visma rider would have beated him even without the bad luck they had.

As for Sanremo, he was just the best rider in that race as the gap to second demonstrates.

Finally, let's not forget that he won the Tour of Belgium and the Super 8 classic so he was actually competitive in smaller races too.

 

[Sciatic]

Van der Poel: the best classics rider of the 21st century

Pogacar: the most talented rider of the 21st century

I think if they all were riding together at the peak of their careers in the same races MVDP would usually come out on top. But I personally don’t tap him (yet) to the best of this century till he’s closer to Cancellara and Boonen palmares as classics riders. As great as MVDP is, winning 4 Roubaix’s is a really high standard, and will still be tough work to get there.

 

[AmRacer]

I think if they all were riding together at the peak of their careers in the same races MVDP would usually come out on top. But I personally don’t tap him (yet) to the best of this century till he’s closer to Cancellara and Boonen palmares as classics riders. As great as MVDP is, winning 4 Roubaix’s is a really high standard, and will still be tough work to get there.

Who will have four different monuments first? I vote for Pog. And MvdP doesn't stand a chance in any GC against Poggi.

 

[tobydawq]

May look more like a trio at the end of this year.

I haven't seen much from Wout to suggest that he will be downgraded (only the climb where Skujins distanced him slightly in Omloop points to that but Skujins did kill himself there too). But I know a lot of people see doomsday signs everywhere when it comes to him.

 

[Sciatic]

Who will have four different monuments first? I vote for Pog. And MvdP doesn't stand a chance in any GC against Poggi.

Probably true: I was responding only making a comparison to MVDP per llMaestro’s claim he was as the “best classics rider of the 21st century.” Probably it’s easier to do comparison if the category is “best cobbled classic rider of the 21st century.”

 

[Netserk]

I haven't seen much from Wout to suggest that he will be downgraded (only the climb where Skujins distanced him slightly in Omloop points to that but Skujins did kill himself there too). But I know a lot of people see doomsday signs everywhere when it comes to him.

If the top-3 are upgraded, it's not enough for Van Aert to stagnate.

 

[tobydawq]

If the top-3 are upgraded, it's not enough for Van Aert to stagnate.

True.

But I guess it will be hard for Mathieu to be even better than last year.

 

[Red Rick]

I haven't seen much from Wout to suggest that he will be downgraded (only the climb where Skujins distanced him slightly in Omloop points to that but Skujins did kill himself there too). But I know a lot of people see doomsday signs everywhere when it comes to him.

It's not about decline it's about not getting that big W.

I can see Pogacar, Vingegaard and MvdP seperating themselves from the other 3 this year.

 

[tobydawq]

It's not about decline it's about not getting that big W.

I can see Pogacar, Vingegaard and MvdP seperating themselves from the other 3 this year.

Sure, but if it's about wins, not level, hasn't that already happened? Mathieu leads Wout 5-1 in major one-days.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Saying that Van der Poel had a 3 week holiday in France is judt disrespectful, he was the best leadout man of the race and he got sick in the beginning of the second week but still got into breakaways even though few stages actually suited him.

As for Roubaix, he was lucky but there is no certainty that a Visma rider would have beated him even without the bad luck they had.

As for Sanremo, he was just the best rider in that race as the gap to second demonstrates.

Finally, let's not forget that he won the Tour of Belgium and the Super 8 classic so he was actually competitive in smaller races too.

Compared to his role with Pogacar and WvA, his three weeks were a relaxed bike ride. Btw, going to the breakaway on stages that don't really suit you is often not a heroic act but rather the easier, more cost-effective way to complete the stage.

Looking at Pog and MvdP's 2023 season, Pog also won two Monuments, two more WT classics, stage races, fought for GT wins and was on the podium in the World Championship. All this after suffering a serious injury at a Monument where he was the biggest favourite.

It seems that many people disagree with me, but I think my question is legitimate. Are they really in the same league?

 

[AmRacer]

It's not about decline it's about not getting that big W.

I can see Pogacar, Vingegaard and MvdP seperating themselves from the other 3 this year.

Didn't they do that last year?

 

[topcat]

It's not a big 6. It's a big 3: vwpe, mou and cyclistabi.

 

[KZD]

Compared to his role with Pogacar and WvA, his three weeks were a relaxed bike ride. Btw, going to the breakaway on stages that don't really suit you is often not a heroic act but rather the easier, more cost-effective way to complete the stage.

Looking at Pog and MvdP's 2023 season, Pog also won two Monuments, two more WT classics, stage races, fought for GT wins and was on the podium in the World Championship. All this after suffering a serious injury at a Monument where he was the biggest favourite.

It seems that many people disagree with me, but I think my question is legitimate. Are they really in the same league?

Look if we go down that path, Pogačar and Van der Poel are not on the same league but then I ask you the question, who is? Speaking for myself, I don't see anyone with the same overall level as Pogačar nowadays.

But that was not what made people pushing back on you, but rather you saying that Van der Poel doesn't belong with the other 4 riders in the big6 group an argument that I find very difficult to support especially given that someone like Van Aert has not been able to win big unlike his chief rival.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

It's not a big 6. It's a big 3: vwpe, mou and cyclistabi.

I hope that Roglic is able to still win a few races so we don't lose one of the best posters of the 21st century

 

[Brullnux]

2023 was a very lucky year for him, but things could easily have turned out differently.
MSR - Everything went his way in the race.
Flanders - 2nd best
Roubaix - He was extremely lucky
Glasgow - Undoubtedly the strongest, although his opponents hadn't had a 3-week holiday in France.

This is like when Lampard's Everton lost a match 4-0 and he said: "we started really well and controlled the game. Then we allowed a goal from a corner, then another average goal, a fluke goal and another average goal".