Teams & Riders The Big 6

[Boehmand]

Are fans still pretending that WVA, remco and Roglic are on the level of Pogacar, vingegard and van Der poel????? Things can change every quickly but for me right now there is only a big 3.

To me there is only ONE "big" rider in cycling, who is amongst the favourites for every major race in the sport - and that's Pogacar.

As such it doesn't make sense to talk about "the big 6", because it's really "the big 4 in stage racing", and "the big 4-5-6-7 in classics races" (depending on where you set the bar).

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Look if we go down that path, Pogačar and Van der Poel are not on the same league but then I ask you the question, who is? Speaking for myself, I don't see anyone with the same overall level as Pogačar nowadays.

But that was not what made people pushing back on you, but rather you saying that Van der Poel doesn't belong with the other 4 riders in the big6 group an argument that I find very difficult to support especially given that someone like Van Aert has not been able to win big unlike his chief rival.

At the time of my post I was under the impression that it was the "big 3" and not the "big 6". I didn't even think of any other names than Vingegaard, who, in spite of his boring personality, shows his class in stage races and grand tours; Pogacar, who participates in several different races with the aim of winning each one & MvdP. He's undoubtedly on a par with the former two in terms of prestigious wins, but as his race selection is like someone at the dawn of his career and not at the top of his game, that's why I questioned his place alongside Pog and Vingegaard.

This is like when Lampard's Everton lost a match 4-0 and he said: "we started really well and controlled the game. Then we allowed a goal from a corner, then another average goal, a fluke goal and another average goal".

Trying to explain things in football terms is getting to be very boring.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Might be a big seven after today.

 

[Wyndbrook]

To me there is only ONE "big" rider in cycling, who is amongst the favourites for every major race in the sport - and that's Pogacar.

As such it doesn't make sense to talk about "the big 6", because it's really "the big 4 in stage racing", and "the big 4-5-6-7 in classics races" (depending on where you set the bar).

The big three of one day racing are straight forward to define, Pogacar, van Der Poel and Evenepoel.
Referencing WF today collectively they have won 10 of the 11 last world's and monuments.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

So it’s really like a Venn diagram with one circle being one day races and one circle being GTs.

One-Day Races (left circle)

1. MvDP
2. WvA

Dual Riders (overlap)

1. Pogacar
2. Remco

GTs (right circle)

1. Vingegaard
2. Roglic (although he is somewhat in the overlap)

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

So it’s really like a Venn diagram with one circle being one day races and one circle being GTs.

One-Day Races (left circle)

1. MvDP
2. WvA

Dual Riders (overlap)

1. Pogacar
2. Remco

GTs (right circle)

1. Vingegaard
2. Roglic (although he is somewhat in the overlap)

I’d probably put Pogacar and Remco in that order after MvDP in the one day and Pogacar after Vingegaard and Remco after Roglic in the GTs. If you assign points based on relative ranking in each respective circle, you can then rank them. Since I value GTs over one-days, I will arbitrarily assign the relative ranking as a point for GTs and ranking + 1 for one-days. So I get:

GTs

1. Vingegaard (1 point)
2. Pogacar (2 points)
3. Roglic (3 points)
4. Remco (4 points)
5. Wout (5 points)
6. MvDP (6 points)

One-Days

1. MvDP (1 point)
2. Pogacar (2 points)
3. Remco (3 points)
4. Wout (4 points)
5. Roglic (5 points)
6. Vingegaard (6 points)

Combined

1. Pogacar (4 points)
2. Vingegaard / MvDP / Remco (7 points)
3. Roglic / Wout (8 points)

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I’d probably put Pogacar and Remco in that order after MvDP in the one day and Pogacar after Vingegaard and Remco after Roglic in the GTs. If you assign points based on relative ranking in each respective circle, you can then rank them. Since I value GTs over one-days, I will arbitrarily assign the relative ranking as a point for GTs and ranking + 1 for one-days. So I get:

GTs

1. Vingegaard (1 point)
2. Pogacar (2 points)
3. Roglic (3 points)
4. Remco (4 points)
5. Wout (5 points)
6. MvDP (6 points)

One-Days

1. MvDP (1 point)
2. Pogacar (2 points)
3. Remco (3 points)
4. Wout (4 points)
5. Roglic (5 points)
6. Vingegaard (6 points)

Combined

1. Pogacar (4 points)
2. Vingegaard / MvDP / Remco (7 points)
3. Roglic / Wout (8 points)

Or you could just take the #1 on the left, the #1 in the middle, and the #1 on the right to get to down to the obvious reduced big 3 of MvDP / Pogacar / Vingegaard. So, as a conclusion of the 3 useless posts, I propose the following:

Major 3:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. MvDP

Minor 3:

1. Remco
2. Roglic
3. Wout

Of course this season could change everything. You’re welcome, everyone.

 

[johnymax]

There's no big 6 anymore, it's just the special ONE.
Remco and Roglic are weak, Pogačar can't drop sprinters on the climbs when it matters, MVDP barely gets a top 10 in a monument most suited to him. Van Aert hasn't even been in a conversation for the past 2 years...

So it's just Vingo, the special one.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

No offense, but please just eddit your previous post instead of engaging in a chat with yourself.
Also, in which universe does a rider who won a GT, two monuments and two WCC titles in the past two years not fit into a top tier list.

 

[AmRacer]

No offense, but please just eddit your previous post instead of engaging in a chat with yourself.
Also, in which universe does a rider who won a GT, two monuments and two WCC titles in the past two years not fit into a top tier list.

If there are only three places, one has to go. And we have to look at more than two years. The question is how much 2 TdF is worth.

 

[Gigs_98]

Honestly refreshing to see someone else win for once. It honestly just wouldn't feel right if MSR was just a duel between MvdP, Van Aert and Pogacar every year. That would so badly go against what makes this race great.

 

[Gigs_98]

Or you could just take the #1 on the left, the #1 in the middle, and the #1 on the right to get to down to the obvious reduced big 3 of MvDP / Pogacar / Vingegaard. So, as a conclusion of the 3 useless posts, I propose the following:

Major 3:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. MvDP

Minor 3:

1. Remco
2. Roglic
3. Wout

Of course this season could change everything. You’re welcome, everyone.

I actually kinda like this way to think about the 6.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If there are only three places, one has to go. And we have to look at more than two years. The question is how much 2 TdF is worth.

If you are looking at more than 2 years, why is Vingegaard there? Why is Van der Poel there? Looking at career palmares, there is no reason for Van der Poel or Vingegaard to be there instead of Evenepoel or even Roglic.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

There's no big 6 anymore, it's just the special ONE.
Remco and Roglic are weak, Pogačar can't drop sprinters on the climbs when it matters, MVDP barely gets a top 10 in a monument most suited to him. Van Aert hasn't even been in a conversation for the past 2 years...

So it's just Vingo, the special one.

Not gonna lie, MSR shows Pog's liability. Last year he couldn't drop a 90-kilo guy and this year he couldn't properly gap sprinters! I'm afraid real men will show him how to climb during the Giro!

 

[AmRacer]

If you are looking at more than 2 years, why is Vingegaard there? Why is Van der Poel there? Looking at career palmares, there is no reason for Van der Poel or Vingegaard to be there instead of Evenepoel or even Roglic.

2 TdF, how much are they worth?
Equal with 3 Vuelta and 1 Giro?
Equal with 4 monuments and WCC?
Equal with 2 monuments, 1 WCC and 1 Vuelta?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not gonna lie, MSR shows Pog's liability. Last year he couldn't drop a 90-kilo guy and this year he couldn't properly gap sprinters! I'm afraid real men will show him how to climb during the Giro!

Real 90kg men!

 

[ppanther92]

Major 3:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. MvDP

Minor 3:

1. Remco
2. Roglic
3. Wout

Exactly how I see it. Roglic cannot nearly do what Pogacar and Vingegaard can in stage races. WvA cannot do what MvdP can in classics. Maybe you can make some argument for Remco to make it a big 4, solely looking at his LBL and World Championships (I very much doubt him to get on a Pog/Vingo GT level ever, but ok, time will tell). But Roglica and WvA seem like a stretch to be included.

 

[AmRacer]

Not gonna lie, MSR shows Pog's liability. Last year he couldn't drop a 90-kilo guy and this year he couldn't properly gap sprinters! I'm afraid real men will show him how to climb during the Giro!

Poggio isn't hard enough.

 

[Salvarani]

Or you could just take the #1 on the left, the #1 in the middle, and the #1 on the right to get to down to the obvious reduced big 3 of MvDP / Pogacar / Vingegaard. So, as a conclusion of the 3 useless posts, I propose the following:

Major 3:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. MvDP

Minor 3:

1. Remco
2. Roglic
3. Wout

Of course this season could change everything. You’re welcome, everyone.

This is correct!

However, I would probably have it like this though:

Major 3:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. MvDP

Minor 3:

1. Roglic
2. Remco
3. Wout

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

2 TdF, how much are they worth?
Equal with 3 Vuelta and 1 Giro?
Equal with 4 monuments and WCC?
Equal with 2 monuments, 1 WCC and 1 Vuelta?

In career palmares i put Evenepoel on the same tier as Van der Poel, while having an actual better palmares overall (total wins, WT wins, type of wins)
And quite a bit above Vingegaard, who has not won a top classic, monument or a WCC.
Roglic is even still above that, he also won a monument and the olympic TT, along with every major 1 week race.

 

[Netserk]

No offense, but please just eddit your previous post instead of engaging in a chat with yourself.
Also, in which universe does a rider who won a GT, two monuments and two WCC titles in the past two years not fit into a top tier list.

Never defeated the best mano a mano in the biggest races. Hopefully, he gets the chance in Liège.

 

[AmRacer]

In career palmares i put Evenepoel on the same tier as Van der Poel, while having an actual better palmares overall (total wins, WT wins, type of wins)
And quite a bit above Vingegaard, who has not won a top classic, monument or a WCC.
Roglic is even still above that, he also won a monument and the olympic TT, along with every major 1 week race.

I doubt there's an 1 week race where MvdP could win ovee Remco.
They will clash this spring in a few races, it shall be fun to watch.

 

[Salvarani]

2x Ronde van Vlaanderen ('22, '20)
World Championships ME - Road Race ('23)
2x Dwars door Vlaanderen - A travers la Flandre ME ('22, '19)
Milano-Sanremo ('23)
Paris - Roubaix ('23)
Amstel Gold Race ('19)
Strade Bianche ('21)

MVDP > Remco

 

[AmRacer]

2x Ronde van Vlaanderen ('22, '20)
World Championships ME - Road Race ('23)
2x Dwars door Vlaanderen - A travers la Flandre ME ('22, '19)
Milano-Sanremo ('23)
Paris - Roubaix ('23)
Amstel Gold Race ('19)
Strade Bianche ('21)

MVDP > Remco

How much is a Vuelta, 2 LBL and a few one week GCs worth?

 

[Froome]

2x Ronde van Vlaanderen ('22, '20)
World Championships ME - Road Race ('23)
2x Dwars door Vlaanderen - A travers la Flandre ME ('22, '19)
Milano-Sanremo ('23)
Paris - Roubaix ('23)
Amstel Gold Race ('19)
Strade Bianche ('21)

MVDP > Remco

Remco

3 Classicas San Remco

MVDP

0 Classicas San Remco

Remco>MVDP