Teams & Riders The Big 6

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Including 180k semi classics to spec up a palmares

Let's play the game:
Total wins: Evenepoel > Van der Poel
World Tour wins: Evenepoel > Van der Poel
GT wins: Evenepoel > Van der Poel
WCC wins: Evenepoel > Van der Poel
GT Stage wins: Evenepoel > Van der Poel
Monument wins: Evenepoel < Van der Poel
Cyclocross wins: Evenepoel < Van der Poel
Football wins: Evenepoel > Van der Poel

 

[Netserk]

and a few one week GCs worth?

Nothing when the greatest is fricking UAE Tour.

 

[Salvarani]

How much is a Vuelta, 2 LBL and a few one week GCs worth?

Dont forget the San Sebastians! Lol. They love to bring those up.

It is not that many prestigious one-week races imo, that he has won. Those arent worth much.

Vuelta, LBLs and WCs are of course something but not on the level of other guys.

He has to win another GT or Lombardia. Add more big races. T-A, PN, Dauphine, Suisse and other major one-week races.

Like someone Carapaz has Olympic Gold, Giro, Suisse and three other podiums in GTs. It is at least worth a discussion, if just talking about achievements/palmares.

 

[AmRacer]

Including 180k semi classics to spec up a palmares

Or a few non World Tour stage races.

 

[Salvarani]

MVDP also helps others win. Not squander everyone elses chances to win, that are on the same team, including his own.

 

[AmRacer]

Dont forget the San Sebastians! Lol. They love to bring those up.

It is not that many prestigious one-week races imo, that he has won. Those arent worth much.

Vuelta, LBLs and WCs are of course something but not on the level of other guys.

He has to win another GT or Lombardia. Add more big races. T-A, PN, Dauphine, Suisse and other major one-week races.

Like someone Carapaz has Olympic Gold, Giro, Suisse and three other podiums in GTs. It is at least worth a discussion, if just talking about achievements/palmares.

Maybe we should include Cyclocross.

 

[Salvarani]

Maybe we should include Cyclocross.

MVDP is just miles ahead when comparing them.

So many WCs.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

They guy laughing with CSS is bringing up Dwars Door Vlaanderen. My sides are splitting.

 

[Keldergoat]

In career palmares i put Evenepoel on the same tier as Van der Poel, while having an actual better palmares overall (total wins, WT wins, type of wins)

What are you smoking Today? 5 monuments + WC vs 3, 9 podiums vs 3. Remco's Vuelta and ITT win is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your comparison. I won't rule out Evenepoels palmares will be bigger in a couple of years time but right now it's just isn't.

 

[Salvarani]

Dwars is a WT race, just as San Sebastian.

Like SB, like Amstel...

 

[Salvarani]

MVDP just miles ahead Remco in a straight comparison palmares-wise. No question about it.

Not even taking account for his cyclo-cross career. Then it is just not fair anymore.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What are you smoking Today? 5 monuments + WC vs 3, 9 podiums vs 3. Remco's Vuelta and ITT win is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your comparison.

Lol, what am i smoking? We are talking about palmares of the best riders, so we are counting mainly wins, not podiums. Compare total wins, compare WT wins. The only edge MvdP has is that he has won 2 more monuments. If you think a Vuelta + WCC ITT is doing a lot of heavy lifting, i would argue the exact same about those 2 monuments in your comparison.

Vuelta + WCC + WCC ITT + LBL x 2 is roughly on par with WCC + RVV x2 + MSR + PR

On top of that Evenepoel has more total wins, as well as more WT wins. The rest is comparing a classics rider to GC rider. Evenepoel less 2nd/3rd tier classics, but (way) more GT stagewins and lower tier GC's.

If you don't think that is enough to put Evenepoel at the very least on par with Van der Poel, feel free to take the comparison even further.

Remco Evenepoel versus Mathieu van der Poel

Head to head career results between Remco Evenepoel and Mathieu van der Poel. The overal score is 54.8% for Remco Evenepoel versus 45.2% for Mathieu van der Poel. A comparison on same race results, time trial points and the points per age.

www.procyclingstats.com

More career total points, more points per km.

Or at the All time ranking where only one of them is in the top 100:

Who is the best rider of alltime?

The ProCyclingStats alltime ranking is led by Eddy Merckx with 3851.7 points, before Sean Kelly (2158.4 points) and Francesco Moser (2127.8 points). Considering the enormous gap between Merckx and Kelly (1693.3) we can conclude that Merckx is the best rider of all time.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Keldergoat]

You're still using career points in Procyclingstats as an indicator for a palmares, *** hell that way Marc Hirschi won more points than VDP last year.

 

[Salvarani]

What are you smoking Today? 5 monuments + WC vs 3, 9 podiums vs 3. Remco's Vuelta and ITT win is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your comparison.

It is no contest.

MVDP has a way better palmares, as of now, and his place in history is way bigger right now as things stand.

Major wins are ones that counts and podiums in big races.

 

[Netserk]

Lol, what am i smoking? We are talking about palmares of the best riders, so we are counting mainly wins, not podiums. Compare total wins, compare WT wins. The only edge MvdP has is that he has won 2 more monuments. If you think a Vuelta + WCC ITT is doing a lot of heavy lifting, i would argue the exact same about those 2 monuments in your comparison.

Vuelta + WCC + WCC ITT + LBL x 2 is roughly on par with WCC + RVV x2 + MSR + PR

On top of that Evenepoel has more total wins, as well as more WT wins. The rest is comparing a classics rider to GC rider. Evenepoel less 2nd/3rd tier classics, but (way) more GT stagewins and lower tier GC's.

If you don't think that is enough to put Evenepoel at the very least on par with Van der Poel, feel free to take the comparison even further.

Remco Evenepoel versus Mathieu van der Poel

Head to head career results between Remco Evenepoel and Mathieu van der Poel. The overal score is 54.8% for Remco Evenepoel versus 45.2% for Mathieu van der Poel. A comparison on same race results, time trial points and the points per age.

www.procyclingstats.com

More career total points, more points per km.

Or at the All time ranking where only one of them is in the top 100:

Who is the best rider of alltime?

The ProCyclingStats alltime ranking is led by Eddy Merckx with 3851.7 points, before Sean Kelly (2158.4 points) and Francesco Moser (2127.8 points). Considering the enormous gap between Merckx and Kelly (1693.3) we can conclude that Merckx is the best rider of all time.

www.procyclingstats.com

Ah, the ranking that has Cavendish ahead of Contador, Boonen, Pogi, Froome, Rogla, Gilbert and Cancellara.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Indeed you are not. But feel free to back it up with arguments instead of memes or drive by posts. In big wins they are tied. Say 2x LBL cancel out 2x RVV. Then you are left with comparing MSR + PR to Vuelta + WCC ITT. I think it's fair to say a GT is still quite a bit higher than a monument, so that makes up for the "lesser" win of a WCC ITT. Then you look at all the other wins, and it doesn't really improve for MvdP.

But if you don't think a GT win is that big of a deal, we can just kick Vingegaard from the list as well of course.

 

[Keldergoat]

Hahaha I rest my case. My arguments are in the post before and you come up with some arbitrary all time cyclists lists that favours Cavendish over Contador. Give yourself a break mate, this is getting hilarious.

 

[Salvarani]

Ah, the ranking that has Cavendish ahead of Contador, Boonen, Pogi, Froome, Rogla, Gilbert and Cancellara.

You cant make this up. It is just hilarious.

Cavendish has been greatly cheated as not being viewed as the next Merckx.

 

[Netserk]

Indeed you are not. But feel free to back it up with arguments instead of memes or drive by posts. In big wins they are tied. Say 2x LBL cancel out 2x RVV. Then you are left with comparing MSR + PR to Vuelta + WCC ITT. I think it's fair to say a GT is still quite a bit higher than a monument, so that makes up for the "lesser" win of a WCC ITT. Then you look at all the other wins, and it doesn't really improve for MvdP.

But if you don't think a GT win is that big of a deal, we can just kick Vingegaard from the list as well of course.

The WCTT is not on the level of monuments and GTs. Big wins are the three GTs, the five monuments, the WCRR & OGRR.

 

[Netserk]

No one ranks Tony Martin as one of the all-time greats.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The WCTT is not on the level of monuments and GTs. Big wins are the three GTs, the five monuments, the WCRR & OGRR.

Nor am i claiming it is. If you cared to read what i wrote, you would have seen i said as much. But a GT is still worth more than a monument.
GT > WCC >/ Monument > WCC ITT

Last time i checked Van der Poel had not won a GT, Evenepoel had.

WCC Road	WCC Road
2x RVV	2x LBL
MSR + PR	Vuelta + WCC ITT

You cant make this up. It is just hilarious.

Cavendish has been greatly cheated as not being viewed as the next Merckx.

Hilarious indeed, with all the GT's and multiple monuments Cavendish won. Or did he win 10x Dwars Door Vlaanderen perhaps? lolz

 

[Salvarani]

MVDP has a great place in history already. Has a great palmares to back it up and is the best cyclo-cross rider of all time.

The other will just be heralded as a very good rider of his time.

Enough with the mental gymnastics. Embarrassing as always. I only feel pity and concern for this behavior.

 

[Netserk]

Nor am i claiming it is. If you cared to read what i wrote, you would have seen i said as much. But a GT is still worth more than a monument.
GT > WCC >/ Monument > WCC ITT

Last time i checked Van der Poel had not won a GT, Evenepoel had.

WCC Road	WCC Road
2x RVV	2x LBL
MSR + PR	Vuelta + WCC ITT

Hilarious indeed, with all the GT's and multiple monuments Cavendish won. Or did he win 10x Dwars Door Vlaanderen perhaps? lolz

So why bring it up as the only non-big win?

Amstel is a greater win than the WCTT.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Or you could just take the #1 on the left, the #1 in the middle, and the #1 on the right to get to down to the obvious reduced big 3 of MvDP / Pogacar / Vingegaard. So, as a conclusion of the 3 useless posts, I propose the following:

Major 3:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. MvDP

Minor 3:

1. Remco
2. Roglic
3. Wout

Of course this season could change everything. You’re welcome, everyone.

I really kicked the hornets nest here, huh @Logic-is-your-friend

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Enough with the mental gymnastics. Embarrassing as always. I only feel pity and concern for this behavior.

Glad you came to your senses.

I really kicked the hornets nest here, huh @Logic-is-your-friend

It was the "you're welcome" that really pushed the wrong buttons!