Teams & Riders The Big 6

[Logic-is-your-friend]

No one ranks Tony Martin as one of the all-time greats.

Did Tony Martin win a GT , become WCC road and win monuments? If not, then why bring him up?
Is Freire considered an all-time great?

Only Pogi didn't show up. Probably knew he would lose and was scared of Remco

Pog crashed.

Ah, the ranking that has Cavendish ahead of Contador, Boonen, Pogi, Froome, Rogla, Gilbert and Cancellara.

That ranking was only one of all the possible ways to show how Van der Poel is not ahead. Total wins, total WT wins, biggest win, total points, points per km, UCI ranking, all time ranking, H2H, you name it.

 

[repre]

Did Tony Martin win a GT , become WCC road and win monuments? If not, then why bring him up?
Is Freire considered an all-time great?


Pog crashed.


That ranking was only one of all the possible ways to show how Van der Poel is not ahead. Total wins, total WT wins, biggest win, total points, points per km, UCI ranking, all time ranking...

Yeah, he crashed so Remco didn't win against him like the previous poster said...

 

[AmRacer]

Only Pogi didn't show up. Probably knew he would lose and was scared of Remco

That was the year before, last year Poggi was crashed out.

 

[AmRacer]

Did Tony Martin win a GT , become WCC road and win monuments? If not, then why bring him up?
Is Freire considered an all-time great?


Pog crashed.


That ranking was only one of all the possible ways to show how Van der Poel is not ahead. Total wins, total WT wins, biggest win, total points, points per km, UCI ranking, all time ranking, H2H, you name it.

So Cav is the number one in the peloton.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So Cav is the number one in the peloton.

I will repeat: That ranking was only one of all the possible ways to show how Van der Poel is not ahead. Total wins, total WT wins, biggest win, total points, points per km, UCI ranking, all time ranking, H2H, you name it.

When you compare two riders with each other, and of all the possible ways to compare them, one is only ahead when you look at one certain metric, it should be enough to make you think. Cav has two major wins, one monument and one WCC. In that regard he is already behind Evenepoel and Van der Poel. There is only one metric where Van der Poel is ahead of Evenepoel, and that is in monuments (2vs4), in all other possible comparisons, he is trailing, including single biggest win.

Yeah, he crashed so Remco didn't win against him like the previous poster said...

Previous poster said "what".

 

[AmRacer]

I will repeat: That ranking was only one of all the possible ways to show how Van der Poel is not ahead. Total wins, total WT wins, biggest win, total points, points per km, UCI ranking, all time ranking, H2H, you name it.

When you compare two riders with each other, and of all the possible ways to compare them, one is only ahead when you look at one certain metric, it should be enough to make you think. Cav has two major wins, one monument and one WCC. In that regard he is already behind Evenepoel and Van der Poel. There is only one metric where Van der Poel is ahead of Evenepoel, and that is in monuments (2vs4), in all other possible comparisons, he is trailing, including single biggest win.

MvdP wasn't at his mountain weight and hadn't been at altitude yet.
MvdP doesn't want to ride as many races as Evenepoel, so therefore Remco will always get more wins. You can count who has most shoe laces, I'm sure Remco will win that one too.
MvdP doesn't ride GC so you can't make that comparison either.
MvdP has more wins that counts. End of and full stop.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

MvdP wasn't at his mountain weight and hadn't been at altitude yet.
MvdP doesn't want to ride as many races as Evenepoel, so therefore Remco will always get more wins. You can count who has most shoe laces, I'm sure Remco will win that one too.
MvdP doesn't ride GC so you can't make that comparison either.
MvdP has more wins that counts. End of and full stop.

What a bunch of bolony. Evenepoel doesn't ride RVV, MSR, PR so he can't win those either. So apparently they don't count for MVDP. And MVDP has actually more race km than Evenepoel, lol.

 

[tobydawq]

Did Tony Martin win a GT , become WCC road and win monuments? If not, then why bring him up?
Is Freire considered an all-time great?


Pog crashed.


That ranking was only one of all the possible ways to show how Van der Poel is not ahead. Total wins, total WT wins, biggest win, total points, points per km, UCI ranking, all time ranking, H2H, you name it.

I think Freire is borderline but even with 6 major wins I think I'm leaning on no.

 

[Blanco]

Is Freire considered an all-time great?

Yes he is.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

When a non-race thread gains 4 pages in an evening, you can bet that a certain someone will be involved.

 

[Berniece]

When a non-race thread gains 4 pages in an evening, you can bet that a certain someone will be involved.

But when you read all of it he’s the only one making sense

 

[wheresmybrakes]

OMFG, the sooner Remco retires the bloody better.

 

[repre]

When a non-race thread gains 4 pages in an evening, you can bet that a certain someone will be involved.

Masnada's glorified leadout?

 

[topcat]

When a non-race thread gains 4 pages in an evening, you can bet that a certain someone will be involved.

mou?

 

[Ilmaestro99]

mou?

He is a CHARLATAN

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Masnada's glorified leadout?

I miss 2021, when Fausto was better than remco and Bahrain were stronger than visma

 

[repre]

I miss 2021, when Fausto was better than remco and Bahrain were stronger than visma

Even Padun was better than Remco in 2021...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

OMFG, the sooner Remco retires the bloody better.

So people can keep posting BS without anybody questioning it? Ok. Good luck. He's already 24.

Yes he is.

Toby thinks not. Would like to know from Netserk, and how that figures into epic wins against other all time greats, with heroic attacks etc.
But ok, it is what it is. If people really want draw the cap at monuments, and everything below that doesn't matter... ok. I yield. Then we will just kick Vingegaard down from the top 3, as he has only won 2 TDF, no WCC and no monuments. Problem solved.

 

[saunaking]

They guy laughing with CSS is bringing up Dwars Door Vlaanderen. My sides are splitting.

CSS is more of a monument than Strade, I agree!

Its a difficult argument, Remco has that Vuelta win, but MVDP has 2 flanders and a PR and sorry, that is probably at least 2x better than the LBLs

How do you compare the two when MVDP is not a stage race GC rider at all?
Remco's GC record is pretty underwhelming IMO, he should have won Catalunya last year but lost, was terrible in Swisse, smoked in P-N by a bunch of domestiques.

At the end of the day, 2 Flanders and PR trump the Vuelta.

Any chance they are both in Amstel this year?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

CSS is more of a monument than Strade, I agree!

Its a difficult argument, Remco has that Vuelta win, but MVDP has 2 flanders and a PR and sorry, that is probably at least 2x better than the LBLs

How do you compare the two when MVDP is not a stage race GC rider at all?
Remco's GC record is pretty underwhelming IMO, he should have won Catalunya last year but lost, was terrible in Swisse, smoked in P-N by a bunch of domestiques.

At the end of the day, 2 Flanders and PR trump the Vuelta.

Any chance they are both in Amstel this year?

I wasn't laughing with Strade, but with Dwars Door Vlaanderen, a 180k minor league classic which only became WT in 2017, as part of his "big wins". If those count, i'll just include UAE and Pologne. Brussels Cycling Classic, which Evenepoel won, has a much richer and deeper history than Dwars Door Vlaanderen, with a lot of big name winners going much farther back in comparison. Guys like Van Looy, Gimondi, De Vlaeminck and Merckx. Where as Dwars Door Vlaanderen has to cope with Godefroot, the Planckaert family, Olav Ludwig, Tom Steels etc.

And how on earth do you end up comparing 2x RVV + PR to the Vuelta?

And why exactly should 3 cobbled monuments be equal to 4x LBL? And if you actually want to start differentiating monuments, how exactly does the Micky Mouse Monument not get called into question here, lol. Not to mention the first RVV he won, was the shortest since 1966. So i propose we keep it simple and just count monuments. If not, then i will say 2x LBL equals MSR + PR. Then you are left with 1 Vuelta and 2x RVV. Both were WCC. Evenepoel also became WCC ITT, which is below those wins, and he also won Klasikoa 3 times. Van der Poel's biggest wins below that are Strade and Amstel. So if you want to expand to 2nd tier wins this is what you need to compare:

WCC RR + 2x RVV + PR + MSR + Strade + Amstel

to

Vuelta + WCC RR + 2x LBL + 3x Klasikoa + WCC ITT

Whether Evenepoel is a GC rider and Van der Poel isn't doesn't matter in that context. Evenepoel isn't "just" a GC rider either, which most of his big wins prove.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

This conversation is getting wild. I think all agree that Wout needs a big win to stay in the conversation. As it stands, giving Roglic and to a much lesser extent Remco the benefit of the doubt for P-N, we have a big 5. I am pulling for my guy Wout to earn his way back into this list, though. And I am not yet willing to count Rog out, although he has nobly chosen the hardest possible path this year.

 

[Kwaremonster]

I mean to each his own, but for me the big 6 are the current riders that, if they are the only one out of that group present, they make the race boring and predictable. That's what it's about. If more of them are together it's usually exciting. This applies especially to evenepoel, pogacar and vingegaard, but to an extent also to the other three. That's also why Van Aert still belongs in it, because he is still a opponent that can win a lot of races, even if he didn't do that last year.

It's not about acticve riders with the most achiefments, or otherwise a rider like froome should be in it. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Berniece]

I mean to each his own, but for me the big 6 are the current riders that, if they are the only one out of that group present, they make the race boring and predictable. That's what it's about. If more of them are together it's usually exciting. This applies especially to evenepoel, pogacar and vingegaard, but to an extent also to the other three. That's also why Van Aert still belongs in it, because he is still a opponent that can win a lot of races, even if he didn't do that last year.

It's not about acticve riders with the most achiefments, or otherwise a rider like froome should be in it. But maybe that's just me.

Not just you, that's also how I see it.

 

[Karl Merckx]

Amstel is a greater win than the WCTT.

This is ridiculous.
Beating Ganna & Tarling in a flat WCTT >>>>> being dropped by Fuglsang and Alaphilippe

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglic: just not good anymore. Top riders don't fear Roglic like they did 2 years ago.

In that case the outcome of PN 2024 would likely be different.