Teams & Riders The Big 6

[Netserk]

Nor am i claiming it is. If you cared to read what i wrote, you would have seen i said as much. But a GT is still worth more than a monument.
GT > WCC >/ Monument > WCC ITT

Last time i checked Van der Poel had not won a GT, Evenepoel had.

WCC Road	WCC Road
2x RVV	2x LBL
MSR + PR	Vuelta + WCC ITT

Hilarious indeed, with all the GT's and multiple monuments Cavendish won. Or did he win 10x Dwars Door Vlaanderen perhaps? lolz

So why bring it up as the only non-big win?

Amstel is a greater win than the WCTT.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Or you could just take the #1 on the left, the #1 in the middle, and the #1 on the right to get to down to the obvious reduced big 3 of MvDP / Pogacar / Vingegaard. So, as a conclusion of the 3 useless posts, I propose the following:

Major 3:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. MvDP

Minor 3:

1. Remco
2. Roglic
3. Wout

Of course this season could change everything. You’re welcome, everyone.

I really kicked the hornets nest here, huh @Logic-is-your-friend

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Enough with the mental gymnastics. Embarrassing as always. I only feel pity and concern for this behavior.

Glad you came to your senses.

I really kicked the hornets nest here, huh @Logic-is-your-friend

It was the "you're welcome" that really pushed the wrong buttons!

 

[Salvarani]

Glad you came to your senses.

Get well soon.

Dont want anything to do with you.

 

[Cookster15]

Or at the All time ranking where only one of them is in the top 100:

Who is the best rider of alltime?

The ProCyclingStats alltime ranking is led by Eddy Merckx with 3850.9 points, before Sean Kelly (2158.2 points) and Francesco Moser (2126.6 points). Considering the enormous gap between Merckx and Kelly (1692.7) we can conclude that Merckx is the best rider of all time.

www.procyclingstats.com

That Ranking starts well. But from an Australian perspective, like Cavendish, it is ridiculous to rank Robbie McEwen (48th) ahead of both Phil Andersen (74) and Cadel Evans (85). McEwen himself was in awe of Evans TdF winning feat in 2011.

I also don't think many would rank Rominger ahead of Indurain.

I think Remco will have a high ranking by the time he retires as points accumulate.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So why bring it up as the only non-big win?

Amstel is a greater win than the WCTT.

It is still a WCC title and a race that riders specifically target, unlike Amstel. As you can see i bundled it with his Vuelta win to counter two monuments. I think that is a very fair comparison when it comes to top tier wins.

If you want to bring Amstel and Dwars Door Vlaanderen into the mix, obviously that can easily be countered by 3x Klasikoa. People who want to bring up even lesser classics like Denain and schizzle like that, Evenepoel has won Brussels Cycling Classic, Bernocchi etc. Want to include Bincbank etc, well that's Evenepoel territory with Pologne, UAE etc. So Van der Poel is not ahead, any way you slice it. Biggest wins, total wins, total WT wins, total points, points per km. The only edge he has is that he has 2 monuments, but that does not make up for a GT and all the other wins.

 

[Salvarani]

MVDP is far ahead on all that matters.

Wins and podiums in big races.

Has won several big WT-races.

Best cyclo-cross rider of all time.

It is not close.

 

[Netserk]

You can make a points-tally argument for Evenepoel, but he is yet to win in the manner Van der Poel won in Glasgow.

If Evenepoel beats Pogi in Liège, he will have a much stronger case.

 

[AmRacer]

You can make a points-tally argument for Evenepoel, but he is yet to win in the manner Van der Poel won in Glasgow.

If Evenepoel beats Pogi in Liège, he will have a much stronger case.

Or beat MvdP in any of their spring clashes.

 

[AmRacer]

You can make a points-tally argument for Evenepoel, but he is yet to win in the manner Van der Poel won in Glasgow.

If Evenepoel beats Pogi in Liège, he will have a much stronger case.

Or Jonas in Itzulia.

 

[Red Rick]

Poel vs Poel is the new Rog vs Remco HERE WE GO

CN forum is so back

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You can make a points-tally argument for Evenepoel, but he is yet to win in the manner Van der Poel won in Glasgow.

If Evenepoel beats Pogi in Liège, he will have a much stronger case.

Oh, so now we're giving points for the way that was won now? Winning Liège with the longest solo's since decades probably doesn't count "since Evenepoel" or is there another reason? And keeping a chasing peloton at 2 minutes without them coming any closer in Wollongong also doesn't count "since Evenepoel" probably. They are different riders, they win in different ways. Next you're gonna tell me Pogacar's win in Strade was also not very impressive, because no Van der Poel, Van Aert and he just rode away and the others let him. Ah, no, of course not, because "not Evenepoel".

 

[AmRacer]

Oh, so now we're giving points for the way that was won now? Winning Liège with the longest solo's since decades probably doesn't count "since Evenepoel" or is there another reason? And keeping a chasing peloton at 2 minutes without them coming any closer in Wollongong also doesn't count "since Evenepoel" probably. They are different riders, they win in different ways. Next you're gonna tell me Pogacar's win in Strade was also not very impressive, because no Van der Poel, Van Aert and he just rode away and the others let him. Ah, no, of course not, because "not Evenepoel".

It would be extremely cumbersome if we have to review each win, how it was done and who was there. Who got sick and injured etc.

 

[Netserk]

is there another reason?

Yes.

Never defeated the best mano a mano in the biggest races. Hopefully, he gets the chance in Liège.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It would be extremely cumbersome if we have to review each win, how it was done and who was there. Who got sick and injured etc.

Looks like you quoted the wrong post and meant to reply to Netserk.

 

[Netserk]

MvdP leads in number of biggest wins. He leads in manner of biggest wins.

You can argue that the points-tally of Evenepoel bridges the gap, but I don't think so.

 

[AmRacer]

Looks like you quoted the wrong post and meant to reply to Netserk.

Nope.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nope.

Which is strange, since he is the one insinuating Evenepoel's previous big wins don't count as much, because of that exact reason.

 

[Netserk]

I'm arguing that if you need a tie-breaker, the manner of how they won the greatest races matter. Glasgow was top-tier of one-day victories. Same for Pogi in Ronde.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I'm arguing that if you need a tie-breaker, the manner of how they won the greatest races matter. Glasgow was top-tier of one-day victories. Same for Pogi in Ronde.

According to you. Evenepoel does not have the same physiological build and can not win in that manner. Van der Poel on the other hand can not win the way Evenepoel can win. That does not make his big wins less impressive. It just makes it (not) your personal preference.

Van der Poel leads in biggest races... when you put the cut-off where it suits your argument.

 

[Netserk]

Van der Poel leads in biggest races... when you put the cut-off where it suits your argument.

If you made a poll here on what counts as big wins, more will exclude the TTs than include them.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If you made a poll here on what counts as big wins, more will exclude the TTs than include them.

And if you made a poll whether a GT is rated higher than a monument, 99% will agree.

 

[tobydawq]

You can make a points-tally argument for Evenepoel, but he is yet to win in the manner Van der Poel won in Glasgow.

If Evenepoel beats Pogi in Liège, he will have a much stronger case.

He did last year.

 

[repre]

He did last year.

Only Pogi didn't show up. Probably knew he would lose and was scared of Remco

 

[tobydawq]

Only Pogi didn't show up. Probably knew he would lose and was scared of Remco

What