martinvickers said:Be as mad as you like, Flo. I couldn't give a toss. But the point stands, like it or not.
Not so funny now, are you, Flo?
Mental illness springs to mind.
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martinvickers said:Be as mad as you like, Flo. I couldn't give a toss. But the point stands, like it or not.
Not so funny now, are you, Flo?
LaFlorecita said:Oh you're right Martin, I was shocked when I first saw that video... 4 ****ing years ago.
QFT
red_flanders said:There comes a point when there is no difference between the two. Ventoux 2013 was this point.
You sound exactly like the Armstrong, Ullrich and Pantani defenders on boards like this one in the early 2000's.
LaFlorecita said:Have I now officially been upgraded from crazy stalker chick to keyboard warrior?
martinvickers said:Boo-hoo, Flo. Truth seems to have stung people a lot here. Tough. Have a hankie.
I care rather more about fewer athletes dying, or living their lives in pain, than about your ***ing feelings.
Stay out of the conversation if you like. I don't mind. But start trying to mock something this serious, think you're funny, yeah, I'm gonna let you know what I think.
I appreciate the attempt to actual discuss. It seems to escape others.
martinvickers said:There were no boards like this one in the early 2000's. And that's a cheap tactic to avoid the point.
red_flanders said:A few posts back you said:
Then this bile. Makes it rather difficult to take you seriously in any way.
martinvickers said:You want to compare you're additions, and say Hitches, which make actual points to discuss, to Flo's and sceptics, and tell me they are the same?
red_flanders said:I see no difference between the personal attacks and insults coming from you and those coming from others. Do you?
red_flanders said:My feeling is that there is some truth in that rooting for dopers enables them to some small degree if it's done publicly.
How do we know who is doping again? We know lack of positives is nearly meaningless, so if we go by that measure we (the proverbial "we", that is) end up rooting for dopers like Indurain, Bugno, Armstrong, Schleck, Froome, Horner, Ullrich and scores more for years and years. No blood on your hands for those cheers? Even when the great majority of fans know they're doping?
So someone wants to say they will not root for anyone convicted. Defensible but meaningless. I watched Horner and Nibali duke it out last year in a great battle on the Angliru. Who to root for? Neither has ever been popped that I knew of at the time. Or was I OK and free from "blood" because neither has been popped, no matter what the reality of whether they actually dope?
Not a black and white world. I have my values, but I'm not so sure of them that I would cry "blood" about others'.
martinvickers said:I respond appropriately to which ever type of response I get. Civilised gets civilised response. Snotty Troll gets slapped down. Or is it ok for Sceptic to tell me to "Go f*** myself", but not for me to respond?
Simples.
deValtos said:For sure it's not a clean cut decision for many athletes but that doesn't mean you have to think, aww damn may aswell just cheer for everyone.
For all we know the next young top cycling talent is reading this forum right now (cause they like cycling) and it hardly sends a good message when, even in the clinic of all places (!), you read support for convicted dopers. They'll have it in the back of their mind that, hey even these people don't care that much ...
martinvickers said:Stay out of the conversation if you like. I don't mind. But start trying to mock something this serious, think you're funny, yeah, I'm gonna let you know what I think.
martinvickers said:When was the last time one of them died in their bed? Flo Jo, maybe?
red_flanders said:"Appropriate" is a matter of opinion. Is it OK? I would think an adult would not need to ask such a question.
Either way your calls for serious discussion are completely undermined by your venom toward others. As would anyone else's were they making such arguments then doing exactly what they complain about.
BYOP88 said:Didn't you know, he is allowed to insult people and everyone has to accept that BUT you're not allowed to insult him. Try and keep up with the forum rules, red.
I assume the "red" in your username is because you have blood on your hands.
BYOP88 said:Didn't you know, he is allowed to insult people and everyone has to accept that BUT you're not allowed to insult him. Try and keep up with the forum rules, red.
I assume the "red" in your username is because you have blood on your hands.
Granville57 said:But what is that point, exactly?
Since we're no longer even close to the topic of the thread, and the report function doesn't even work anyway, I may as well jump into the fray on this one.
For all the histrionics, Martin has yet to explain just how it is that these fans in question supposedly have blood on their hands.
Is he referring to the roadside fans who yell and cheer for their favorite doper, thereby emboldening them to push the limits further? If so, he may have a point worth discussing, but I would still take issue with it.
Is he referring to someone who posts something online in support of their favorite doper? If so, he has yet to provide any evidence that such a thing would contribute to doping by said rider.
Is he, as hitch mentioned, referring to the fan who watches the races on TV or computer, in the privacy of their own home, and feels good about seeing his or her favorite doper succeed? Because if so, than Martin has a lot of explaining to do.
Just what is it that these fans do that make them complicit in the doping? Does Martin seriously believer that these riders dope because of encouragement and support from fans?
If so, I would love for Martin to explain the doping that goes on in the U.S. Masters scene.
[Edit]
Actually, I'm not even going to respond further here to this topic. It belongs in its own thread, so I'll wait for a mod to move the entire conversation.
LaFlorecita said:Oh Martin. I'm mocking Froome's book. You think that book is serious? I hope not.
Anyway, going off topic a bit and leaving the book aside, you are the one who keeps complaining about how "unfair" we all are for supporting Contador and hating on Froome.
I'll start hating Contador whenever he starts casting doubts and ****ing on others and adopts a "holier than thou" attitude and shows himself to be a disgusting hypocrite.
But you want to make this much worse than it actually is. People supporting dopers make them dope. People supporting dopers might contribute to their death. Disgusting.
Cry me a river about fairness and all that. YOU made that entire discussion irrelevant by coming up with some *** analogy and blowing everything out of proportion.
I know one thing, and that is that Contador couldn't give two ****s what some random person on the internet thinks about him. How the hell would my support encourage him to dope and risk his life.
martinvickers said:When was the last time one of them died in their bed? Flo Jo, maybe?
Granville57 said:That's really quite interesting. Funny that I never bothered to click on that article based on the headline: Nibali polishes his form in the Dolomites, because based on that, it seemed the headline was the article. I thought, OK, good to know. Next...
Whereas the headline most certainly should have been: Nibali using science to control Froome's attacks. Now that I would've clicked on.
I only bring this up because CN (like most) actively and consciously try to come up with "click-generating" headlines, to the point of being absurd quite often. But they completely missed the boat on this one.
[Edit]
Here's what I remember:
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cyclingnews-online-production-editor-required-north-america
gooner said:Never mind the doping, only the hypocrisy counts. Where I have I heard that before?
Last year you were on here saying it wasn't fair if Contador was clean that he was getting beat by dopers. Fairness only comes in when the suit fits. No problem pre-ban days though.
You even hoped that he doped in such circumstances.
It has been shown that Contador has played the clean card before.
La Flo, don't want to get into an argument but I have to take up this post.
martinvickers said:When was the last time one of them died in their bed? Flo Jo, maybe?