The Demise of Generation 90

[Leinster]

Right, makes sense. I don't know from where that reputation has come, either. Perhaps because he won all the classics in 2017, where Sagan was the most vocal about lack of cooperation. But Greg wasn't the one who was at fault, at all.

I think a few different races played into that. There was definitely a Tour stage (Rodez 2015?) where GvA followed Sagan’s wheel to the win, and iirc Greg was in a position to close the gap to Sagan at the Richmond Worlds, but didn’t pull. So it wasn’t always directly against Sagan, but they rode a lot of the same races and Greg didn’t always throw caution to the wind. I don’t think you could point to a single standout race where Greg sat on and they both lost, but there were races where everyone sat on Peter’s wheel and lost, and GvA, as his main rival, caught the brunt of it.

By contrast, Kwiatkowski actually did beat Sagan a couple of times, including at MSR, but he generally pulled (except at MSR) so got a break from the Sagan-fans.

 

[tobydawq]

I think a few different races played into that. There was definitely a Tour stage (Rodez 2015?) where GvA followed Sagan’s wheel to the win, and iirc Greg was in a position to close the gap to Sagan at the Richmond Worlds, but didn’t pull. So it wasn’t always directly against Sagan, but they rode a lot of the same races and Greg didn’t always throw caution to the wind. I don’t think you could point to a single standout race where Greg sat on and they both lost, but there were races where everyone sat on Peter’s wheel and lost, and GvA, as his main rival, caught the brunt of it.

By contrast, Kwiatkowski actually did beat Sagan a couple of times, including at MSR, but he generally pulled (except at MSR) so got a break from the Sagan-fans.

Well, those two examples are just not true.

Rodez was a puncheur finish of 500 metres at 10% where Greg opened first, Sagan caught up to him, tried to catch his breath after having regained contact and broke his momentum because of that and didn't have a second kick. Anyway, in a puncheur finish, nobody can be faulted for negative racing... In Richmond, Sagan rode GVA off his wheel on the 23rd Street, and Greg pulled all he could but had a non-cooperative EBH in his wheel. Of course, if people just make stuff up and don't remember what actually happened, that would explain the reputation.

Maybe the Tour stage where he didn't cooperate was the Revel stage in 2016, but Matthews won that and had two teammates in a group of 7.

 

[Wvv]

Well, those two examples are just not true.

Rodez was a puncheur finish of 500 metres at 10% where Greg opened first, Sagan caught up to him, tried to catch his breath after having regained contact and broke his momentum because of that and didn't have a second kick. Anyway, in a puncheur finish, nobody can be faulted for negative racing... In Richmond, Sagan rode GVA off his wheel on the 23rd Street, and Greg pulled all he could but had a non-cooperative EBH in his wheel. Of course, if people just make stuff up and don't remember what actually happened, that would explain the reputation.

Maybe the Tour stage where he didn't cooperate was the Revel stage in 2016, but Matthews won that and had two teammates in a group of 7.

Funny how people indeed remember things completely wrong. Greg was always too offensive, lacked tactics for several seasons, and therefor didn't win as many races as he deserved to. But when he suddenly found the key (and the talent) to beat posterboy Sagan on multiple occasions, he's a wheelsucker and a negative rider. Smh.

GVA was an entertaining rider on several terrains throughout the whole season, for a lot of years. He deserves praise for that. And he still isn't completely done.

PS: on-topic, nobody mentioning his buddy Oliver Naesen? Also a 1990's boy (just like me).

 

[Boes]

Funny how people indeed remember things completely wrong. Greg was always too offensive, lacked tactics for several seasons, and therefor didn't win as many races as he deserved to. But when he suddenly found the key (and the talent) to beat posterboy Sagan on multiple occasions, he's a wheelsucker and a negative rider. Smh.

GVA was an entertaining rider on several terrains throughout the whole season, for a lot of years. He deserves praise for that. And he still isn't completely done.

PS: on-topic, nobody mentioning his buddy Oliver Naesen? Also a 1990's boy (just like me).

Wasn't there a Tirreno stage where Sagan was mad afterwards that GVA wheelsucked and beat him to the line? The Tirreno he won? Not sure anymore.

Oliver Neasen, love his interviews, but you can't deny he only had 1 really good year with a few podium places in the classcis. Not in the same league as the other 90 rides we mentioned.

 

[Wvv]

Oliver Neasen, love his interviews, but you can't deny he only had 1 really good year with a few podium places in the classcis. Not in the same league as the other 90 rides we mentioned.

2x GP Plouay, Belgian national champion, stage win and two times 2nd at Eneco Tour, 2nd in Milano-Sanremo, should've podiumed the 2017 Ronde van Vlaanderen without Sagan's crash, had stellar performances in service of Bardet in the Tour, enough other decent results. Think he should get a bit more credit. He also started pro cycling quite late.

 

[Leinster]

Well, those two examples are just not true.

Rodez was a puncheur finish of 500 metres at 10% where Greg opened first, Sagan caught up to him, tried to catch his breath after having regained contact and broke his momentum because of that and didn't have a second kick. Anyway, in a puncheur finish, nobody can be faulted for negative racing... In Richmond, Sagan rode GVA off his wheel on the 23rd Street, and Greg pulled all he could but had a non-cooperative EBH in his wheel. Of course, if people just make stuff up and don't remember what actually happened, that would explain the reputation.

Maybe the Tour stage where he didn't cooperate was the Revel stage in 2016, but Matthews won that and had two teammates in a group of 7.

Yeah, I went back and looked at the highlights clip of that stage, and it was completely unlike how I remember the arguments over the stage framing it afterwards... if you get me.

I just think that GvA's rep, deserved or not, precedes his big 2017 season, which was the guess I was responding to, and really I feel he's just a convenient lightning rod for the general "nobody works with Sagan" that had been going on for a while.