The doped bike exists (video of pro version)!

[Benotti69]

I agree completely Mac. They would tend to display the winning bike as it was when he finished P-R.

Call me naive, but I think all this motorized bike stuff is nonsense. Somebody is having a huge laugh right now.....

NAIVE and Cancellara is laughing reading posts like this...David Cassani, Jackie Durand are 2 people who are sceptic to say the very least...these guys have 'credibility'*...


*2010 will be remembered as the 'Year of Credibility'..

 

[Archibald]

Boonen was the best I have seen in the last decade on the Flanders bergs. He hit them, and smashed them, and always gapped anyone in a cinch, at his leisure.

You lose all credibility when you say he is a sprinter who has had his day.

Never was a sprinter. Always a guy for the monuments in the spring. See his debut at Roubaix.

unfortunately, growing up in Australia means I knew nothing about the monuments til 2007. we only got to see the tour and a bit of info on the giro.
so the bulk of my knowledge on boonen is from watching him in sprint finishes at the tour... i'll admit to being initially surprised to see him do so well in the classics - kinda like thinking of mcewen doing the same...

 

[la.margna]

Its the speed he climbs, not the fact that he dropped Boonen. He climbs that part of the Muur faster than anyone in any year. by 5 seconds or so for a an approx. 30 second section...and made it look freakishly easy compared to anyone else on that section.

Yeah, the difference in style is no issue for me, it is really the absolute time it took FC to climb the Muur...

 

[blackcat]

unfortunately, growing up in Australia means I knew nothing about the monuments til 2007. we only got to see the tour and a bit of info on the giro.
so the bulk of my knowledge on boonen is from watching him in sprint finishes at the tour... i'll admit to being initially surprised to see him do so well in the classics - kinda like thinking of mcewen doing the same...

Boonen is the best cobbles classics rider of his generation. No one holds a candle to him.

Cancellara only holds a candle when he has a battery in the bottom bracket.

 

[Echoes]

Can you help out a monolingual anglophone here? I got a vague impression that Duran was also arguing there were signs Cancellara's bike change was pre-planned, is that correct?

Yeah. He says that the 1st bike change (shown during the live coverage) looked as if it was not planned (he was panicking) but Durand still thinks it was because there was no bidon on his reserve bike while there was 56km remaining and 12 to go to the Molenberg (key climb in the race) and you could not take the risk racing without bidon at that point of the race.


All this raises 2 questions:

- What did the mechanic do during these 5km (for the peloton)? He had no tool bag with him, neither did he have any wheel.

- How come they made these bike changes at exactly the right point? (the neck of a loop)

There is an answer to the second question. On the amateur clip you could clearly see a Rabobank soigneur, which makes me think the spot was known to the team managers.

And Durand did not question the fact that Matti Breschel decided to change his bike at about the same time as Cancellara (you all know the outcome of it). Pure coïncidence?


On another forum, the hypothesis of a 3rd bike has been put forward but I don't believe in it at all.

Still, you can see that the bidon was on the same carrier. Let's assume that the mechanic was thirsty.

I had a youtube link to a screen recording of the original video, it lasted a while, but it too has gone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T25fqnRb-mU

I was watching the clip at the exact moment it was removed and have made a post on this very thread about that, a few pages back. Are you the one who posted the clip on Youtube? I was showing it to a friend who could print-screen it but no need now. Here it says "removed by user".


Edit: if a mod comes around, is it possible to move this thread to another section. It's not about doping !

 

[Parrot23]

For sure the wheels were changed. I think the Specialized photos had Zipp 101's. FC raced on, I think, Zipp 303 carbons.

I guess I'm missing something then.

...The more logical explanation is that it WAS the winning machine and was left in the exact condition it was in when it won, similar to a game-worn athletic jersey. Possibly bound for Specialized as a trophy, or maybe a museum or designated for auction?

Yes, maybe you are missing something, LOL. Perhaps you didn't read the immediately preceding post. It sticks out like the changed wheels, no? When one doesn't want to see something, one doesn't see something. I have no doubt Cancellera could win without a battery so don't count me "blind".

Perhaps Specialized doesn't want the wheels in their museum

 

[MacRoadie]

Yes, maybe you are missing something, LOL. Perhaps you didn't read the immediately preceding post. It sticks out like the changed wheels, no? When one doesn't want to see something, one doesn't see something. I have no doubt Cancellera could win without a battery so don't count me "blind".

Perhaps Specialized doesn't want the wheels in their museum

And when one wants to infer, solely from a dusty bike and on no other evidence whatsoever, that it CANNOT be the winning ride because they HAD to have washed it, they too see what they want to see.

Perhaps a set of wheels (a component that is changed over and over on a bike, and possibly multiple times within the race in question) isn't as important for posterity AS THE BIKE ITSELF.

I'm not, however, missing the fact that you guys are making a huge deal out of a dusty bike.

You're more than happy to suggest that one of the largest and most successful bicycle and component manufacturers IN THE WORLD is complicit in a highly organized program of cheating.

Could a team cheat? Sure. Would a rider cheat? Absolutely. Would a major manufacturer and sponsor cheat, with hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue on the line? No way.

With the market share that Specialized already enjoys, I highly doubt they are willing to risk that.

It's one thing to refuse to see something, it's quite another to see something that's not there.

 

[Parrot23]

To tell you the truth, I'm totally uninterested in Specialized. I could care less about bike manufacturers, but you do. Substitute Trek, or any name there. I don't care.

The team, or 1-2 folks, can and would do it without Specialized's help. It's in Specialized's interests to ensure their product is not implicated in bike cheating after the fact. Nothing strange there.

My view here is uncontaminated with allegiances to either Specialized, SAXO, or any team or any component manufacturer. What's the probability of people with allegiances to any of these principals posting on this thread: I would think almost 100%.

There are concerns in and among the peloton (Pinotti, Rogers, Armstrong, Lefevre). That's enough to get me interested. Presumably they are seeing tooth fairies, are they?

Perhaps a set of wheels (a component that is changed over and over on a bike, and possibly multiple times within the race in question) isn't as important for posterity AS THE BIKE ITSELF.

ROFLMAO Yup, it's all about the bike=Specialized, is it?

 

[MacRoadie]

To tell you the truth, I'm totally uninterested in Specialized. I could care less about bike manufacturers, but you do. Substitute Trek, or any name there. I don't care.

The team, or 1-2 folks, can do it without Specialized's help. It's in Specialized's interests to ensure their product is not implicated in bike cheating after the fact. Nothing strange there.

My view here is uncontaminated with allegiances to either Specialized, SAXO, or any team or any component manufacturer. What's the probability of people with allegiances to any of these principals posting on this thread: I would think almost 100%.

There are concerns in and among the peloton (Pinotti, Rogers, Armstrong, Lefevre). That's enough to get me interested. Presumably they are seeing tooth fairies, are they?

ROFLMAO Yup, it's all about Specialized, is it?

Nice straw man.

And I ride a Colnago.

 

[Parrot23]

Nice straw man.

And I ride a Colnago.

You brought up the fact there are business interests involved.

Nice "straw man".

 

[MacRoadie]

You brought up the fact there are business interests involved.

Nice "straw man".

Might it be because you suggested that Specialized in "their video" presented a bike to the public that wasn't the winning ride? YOU made it about the business when YOU said the business deliberately presented the wrong bike.

You decided to proffer a theory, supported only by your perception that the bike presented by Specialized was "too dusty" to be the right bike. Again, YOU made it about Specialized.

I simply provided a counter point, outlining the obvious deleterious effects such a program could have on a business concern.

No amount of "ROFLMAO" or other inane acronyms will change that.

 

[Parrot23]

For sure the wheels were changed. I think the Specialized photos had Zipp 101's. FC raced on, I think, Zipp 303 carbons.

....Ahem.

"MacCounsel Roadie, just tell 'em the effing wheels fell off."

"Where's Dean?"

 

[la.margna]

According to an article in l'illustre, the Hungarian developer of the e.doped bike shown by Cassani on Italian RAI television, is István Varjas and claims that his bike can achieve Peak Power of 600W and the battery might last up to 60 minutes and also supports pedaling cadence of 100 RPM and more. The weight does not exceed 1 kg.

He plans to launch the "revolutionary" product commercially in autumn. However, some people in the article mention that they have doubts with regard to his credibility and describe him as somebody who is prepared to do anything for money, so he might only be fronting somebody and might not actually have invented it himself.

He also says that Cassani did only get the bike under the condition that he is not being filmed riding the bike for tech/product spy reasons (sorry for my bad english)... whatever...

http://www.illustre.ch/Cancellara-cyclisme-velo-moteur-electrique_46239_.html

I came across the article thanks to a twitter link by theswordsman to a short summary on bikeradar:
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/hungarian-claims-speedy-hidden-electric-motor-26594

 

[DarkWing]

From bikeradar

A Hungarian engineer who claims to have developed an electric motor that can be hidden in a bicycle frame says it can propel a cyclist to 90 kilometres per hour (56 mph).

I don't see that happening when the peak power is 600watts

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

A Hungarian engineer who claims to have developed an electric motor that can be hidden in a bicycle frame says it can propel a cyclist to 90 kilometres per hour (56 mph).

So? Dr. Ferrari has been able to propel cyclists to that speed without a hidden motor for years.

 

[CPAvelo]

So? Dr. Ferrari has been able to propel cyclists to that speed without a hidden motor for years.

Yes, but aren't Dr. Ferrari's methods under increasing scrutiny and not as likely to be used, unless there is a huge cover up as FLandis alleges?

And, if Cancellara used a hidden motor to propel him to victory in the Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix, and if he is not caught, then he reaped considerable benefits.

 

[Magnific0]

According to an article in l'illustre, the Hungarian developer of the e.doped bike shown by Cassani on Italian RAI television, is István Varjas and claims that his bike can achieve Peak Power of 600W and the battery might last up to 60 minutes and also supports pedaling cadence of 100 RPM and more. The weight does not exceed 1 kg.

He plans to launch the "revolutionary" product commercially in autumn. However, some people in the article mention that they have doubts with regard to his credibility and describe him as somebody who is prepared to do anything for money, so he might only be fronting somebody and might not actually have invented it himself.

He also says that Cassani did only get the bike under the condition that he is not being filmed riding the bike for tech/product spy reasons (sorry for my bad english)... whatever...

http://www.illustre.ch/Cancellara-cyclisme-velo-moteur-electrique_46239_.html

I came across the article thanks to a twitter link by theswordsman to a short summary on bikeradar:
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/hungarian-claims-speedy-hidden-electric-motor-26594

I have got bored with this thread as it is totally focused on Cancellara, however I do believe the doped bike exists and Cancellara's performance is questionable. As a diversion what about Cavendish in that final TDF sprint in Paris, again unreal and looked "powered" ,or Contador having to brake going into a bend just after attacking on was it Verbier , even the commentators on tv said they had not seen this before.
I think it would be easy to cast our memories over other spectacular moments that may have included PED's and the motoring effect gained !!

 

[Parrot23]

or Contador having to brake going into a bend just after attacking on was it Verbier , even the commentators on tv said they had not seen this before.

Was this on a "trek" up Verbier Bjarne is definitely going to be checking this one out....... (Hey, Bro and Blackcat, so much for De Rosas).

Verb: to "trek" up Verbier with a "special" bottom bracket = "a Bertie", a new type of braking into uphill corners. Not possible on a Lemond, because HQ has remote control there to ensure fairness.

Commercial disclaimer (for company lawyers here): past performance is not indicative of future performance.

 

[Cloxxki]

No battery is even needed on the bike itself. There are systems being built that transmit power over a distance. If you have a bit of budget (more than a garage tinkerer), it is relatively easy to do.

I would have the motor in the seat tube or BB, and magnets in the rear rim, to make that an electric motor. Very doable, and 100W is nothing.
heck, the engine (some magnets, wires and energy receiver) could be in the rim, a single magnet in the seat tube.

I was passed by a guy on an electro assisted touring bike yesterday on my way to work. No sound but the usual wind and pedaling.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Any truth to the rumour Cancellera is the new Duracell Bunny?

 

[Cloxxki]

Am I the only one who seemed to see the Rabobank soigneur taking the "broken" bike from FC? Seemed odd to me, perhaps I got it wrong.

I once pedaled 506W as aerobic maximum, just around a 5min max effort would be endured at that level. I was 82kg and doing fine in MTB races. The doc who tested me said there were few in the country doing this, although surely I was among the heaviest riders out there.

I know how hard 500W is to maintain for any amount of time. I was not smiling at the fans when doing that, just fighting to get any oxygen molecule I could. It's like being chased by the devil, who's playing with you by letting you flee and not be caught until you drop dead. Nothing comfortable about it.
400W is already A LOT, and if you can do that for an hour, a pack will have a hard time closing in on you if you time your efforts well. Unless the pack has the assist, and you don't

 

[lean mean &green]

I would have the motor in the seat tube or BB, and magnets in the rear rim, to make that an electric motor. Very doable, and 100W is nothing.
heck, the engine (some magnets, wires and energy receiver) could be in the rim, a single magnet in the seat tube.

if i follow you, and i'm not sure i do...if the power source were to fail or the battery ran out the absolute worst place to add mass to a bike is at the rim. (angular momentum) something to think about.

 

[Ripper]

Am I the only one who seemed to see the Rabobank soigneur taking the "broken" bike from FC? Seemed odd to me, perhaps I got it wrong.

I once pedaled 506W as aerobic maximum, just around a 5min max effort would be endured at that level. I was 82kg and doing fine in MTB races. The doc who tested me said there were few in the country doing this, although surely I was among the heaviest riders out there.

I know how hard 500W is to maintain for any amount of time. I was not smiling at the fans when doing that, just fighting to get any oxygen molecule I could. It's like being chased by the devil, who's playing with you by letting you flee and not be caught until you drop dead. Nothing comfortable about it.
400W is already A LOT, and if you can do that for an hour, a pack will have a hard time closing in on you if you time your efforts well. Unless the pack has the assist, and you don't

You need to train more and maintain a higher cadence ... and HTFU

Glad to see this thread has so many posts now

 

[Cloxxki]

You need to train more and maintain a higher cadence ... and HTFU

Glad to see this thread has so many posts now

I am fat and slow now.

As a matter of fact, during the year I transitioned from a weak flyer to a mean MTB racer, I also boosted my natural cadance at LT from 101 to 113rpm. My inseam is nearly one meter, so go figure.
In the LT tests, the machine would maintain the required power, adjusting to the cadence I'd pedal. By training one year (most of my casual distance rides) 1 or 2 cogs lighter than I'd want, I got that increase, which obviously got me lots of efficiency, and allowed power climbs at high cadance.
Crazy that pro's are still picking small cassette for races with steep hills and eternal fame at the finish line. How traditional can you be, in a performance sport?

 

[krebs303]

UCI to introduce motor scanners for Tour de France

Scanners to help combat 'mechanical doping' are to be introduced for next month's Tour de France.