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The doped bike exists (video of pro version)!

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Jul 8, 2009
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JPM I agree completely. When you use peds it is still YOU powering the bike, and you still have to put in the training and effort.


Another point about that video; do you really think that if Cancellara was using a motor on his bike, that he would turn it on in such an obvious way? It's obvious that he's just shifting gears. If I was using a motor would make damn sure nobody would notice that I was turning it on.
 
May 5, 2009
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DarkWing said:
do you really think that if Cancellara was using a motor on his bike, that he would turn it on in such an obvious way? It's obvious that he's just shifting gears. If I was using a motor would make damn sure nobody would notice that I was turning it on.

Agree, if custom-built, then the button will be placed somewhere that it doesn't appear so obvious when starting/stopping the magic engine. :D

Furthermore, the bike changes in both races were also so obvious. i can't imagin that if you cheat you do it so poorly...

To me, it still looks like gear shifting, but who knows...

All we can hope is that Spartacus repeats his performance in another race again where his bike will be checked at start and arrival and any bike on the team car.

In any case, life long ban for any rider who gets caught with a cheat-motor.
 
A

Anonymous

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who was the french rider who after flanders said when cancellara went past him it was like he was on a motorbike, and there was a buzzing..

its bugging the hell out of me
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Do the weights of all the teams bikes get published at each event? In saying that I'm assuming that as there is a minimum weight limit that all the teams bikes get weighed at some point.

Surely the one with alleged engine is heavier than the others?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Is Cancellara using electronic shifting this year? That may explain his hand movements.

Also, if you notice in the Gruber Assist videos they only show the motor turning the wheel while suspended in air. They don't show what happens when friction is applied. I know it's only supposed to be an assist but what percentage of increase could a small motor like that give a big, powerful guy like Cancellara? If it's something like an 0.5% increase then that is not going to account for what we saw from him at Flanders and Roubaix. We know old fashioned assistance can give a much bigger boost.
 
Apr 7, 2010
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Epicycle said:
Is Cancellara using electronic shifting this year? That may explain his hand movements.

Also, if you notice in the Gruber Assist videos they only show the motor turning the wheel while suspended in air. They don't show what happens when friction is applied. I know it's only supposed to be an assist but what percentage of increase could a small motor like that give a big, powerful guy like Cancellara? If it's something like an 0.5% increase then that is not going to account for what we saw from him at Flanders and Roubaix. We know old fashioned assistance can give a much bigger boost.
it clearly says around 100w

100w is 100w no matter how big/small/weak/strong you are

battery lasts 45min to 1hr30 depending on how hard you pedal

personally i find this pretty funny and i very much doubt fabu was using this
 
Sep 25, 2009
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no, scales are useless because a modern bike can weigh under 7 kilo even with the motor.

it's got to be easy to detect the motor...if you're looking for one.

ultra sound and other (magnetic, radar etc....) void detectors existed for decades - just go to radioshack :)p) and buy them.

the thing is, the uci needs donations to buy these 100 euro gadgets.

perhaps lances team can save the uci again.
 
lol... look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbjhao_IKZg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii28kgkvOvY&feature=related

how loud it is (if it is the same manufacturer) when pedaling. tom boonen has to be completely deaf if he didn't notice anything riding next to cancellara. i suppose some people have some deal with manufacturer and there is a lot of money to earn by selling this device .probably mr d.cassani is one of these people . sorry - for me it 's a story like from the Grimm's brothers tales.
sorry for my bad english probably - it's not my native language
 
May 26, 2010
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Michielveedeebee said:
he was slowing down. On some point he almost had 2 mins, but at finish he'd lost 30-45 secs...

from ASO website;

1.CANCELLARA F.SAX6h 35' 10"
2.HUSHOVD T.CTT02' 00"
3.FLECHA J.SKY02' 00"
4.HAMMOND R.CTT03' 14"
5.BOONEN T.QST03' 14"
6.LEUKEMANS B.VAC03' 20"
7.POZZATO F.KAT03' 46"

"The gap rises up to 3’05 in Templeuve (km 225,5)" ....to take 3'05 out of guys like Hushvovd, Boonen and Flecha is 'incredible' as this is an extremely important race for these guys, classic riders, no GT riders....

doped bike, doped cancellara......toss a coin;)
 
May 5, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
from ASO website;

to take 3'05 out of guys like Hushvovd, Boonen and Flecha is 'incredible' as this is an extremely important race for these guys, classic riders, no GT riders....

doped bike, doped cancellara......toss a coin;)

doped cancellara yes (like anybody else), doped bike no way. ridicolous.

guess you have not even watched the race. boonen had initially to do all the work himself and was very angry that nobody seriously chased and decided to race for 2nd place only (read the interviews in case you missed it). we are talking about the world champion in individual time trial that did beat his contenders in the ITT by a few minutes against an unorganised chase. I looked at close up photos of his gear and also of the action. everything fine with the bike, normal gear changes. elektro-motor, what a joke. or real?
 
Jun 14, 2009
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There is no question that this CAN be done. A previous poster described model airplane motors and lithium polymer batteries. I fly these planes, and 100W for 20 minutes is a simple thing. 500+ watts for 3 or 4 minutes is also simple.
The biggest issue would be the noise. Electric motors driving gears would not be quiet at 100W outputs. But cobbled sections with screaming crowds would easily drown it out, and once you pull away...

The weights are miniscule. Hi capacity batteries and powerful motors are available in such variety that you could find a motor for any size tube. The batteries are generally thin, flat cells built up into packs like small bricks, but cylindrical cells are also available and made in large volume for aerospace, military, computer and other applications.

The other side is the custom bike. Modern composite materials can easily be used to shave a kilo or two off a bike frame.

This is possible. Whether anyone in the pro peloton is using it I can't answer, but I theorized it with friends 3 years ago.

If you like I could post photos and videos of some of the tech available, but just perusing a site like this http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...ll+Inrunner+Motors&idCategory=64&ParentCat=59
or
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...me=Turnigy+Lipoly&idCategory=317&ParentCat=85
should conivince you it can be done.
In the electrical world, Watts = Volts * Amps. So to get 100Watts with a "4S" pack (14.8V) you have to draw 6.75A from the battery. This is very low power for these systems, and a 412g, 5000mAh battery pack could support that output for about 45 minutes. Since brushless motors are about 80-85% efficient, and there would be some efficiency loss in the gearing, expect 60-75 Watts going to the wheels during that time.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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RigelKent said:
expect 60-75 Watts going to the wheels during that time.
not the wheels but the crank. the driving wheel will get a bit less due to losses in the drive train.

the rest of your post is spot on.

and as i said above detecting the motor is very easy with the variety of implements and detectors.
 
Jun 14, 2009
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python said:
not the wheels but the crank. the driving wheel will get a bit less due to losses in the drive train.

Good point. I was assuming a rider's output was measured at the crank. Is the commonly quoted rider's output at the crank or at the wheel? In other words, if FC is hitting 500W, is something less than that driving the wheel or is he putting out something more than that with efficiency losses in the drive train?
 
Sep 25, 2009
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RigelKent said:
Good point. I was assuming a rider's output was measured at the crank. Is the commonly quoted rider's output at the crank or at the wheel? In other words, if FC is hitting 500W, is something less than that driving the wheel or is he putting out something more than that with efficiency losses in the drive train?
it depends on the power measuring system. most professional riders (who care) use srm - it measures torque at the crank. powertap otoh measures torque applied to the rear wheel. you'll find a generally quoted difference as large/small as 10-15 watts. the difference is academic and would not change your observations regarding the feasibility. generally though a preferred method of expressing a rider's power would be at the crank. it's been a long tradition in physiological studies since the days of belt-impeded monarch bikes.
 
Jun 14, 2009
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python said:
it depends on the power measuring system. most professional riders (who care) use srm - it measures torque at the crank. powertap otoh measures torque applied to the rear wheel. you'll find a generally quoted difference as large/small as 10-15 watts. the difference is academic and would not change your observations regarding the feasibility. generally though a preferred method of expressing a rider's power would be at the crank. it's been a long tradition in physiological studies since the days of belt-impeded monarch bikes.

It only matters in comparison. If we're measuring at the crank, then my numbers compare apples to apples with well known outputs. Otherwise, another efficiency drop must be factored in.
FWIW, people have been asking on similar threads about the battery pack. Assuming there isn't one already in the frame, it would be all too simple to have a couple of contacts in the bidon holder. I could easily pack a bidon with 20Ah or more of battery power. Locate it properly in the holder and zoom away.
How to dispose of the loaded bidon....that's the problem. Maybe toss it in a fan-free area where a team operative can pick it up?
I'm not so sure the motor alone would be so easy to detect if you didn't know exactly what to look for.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Where do you draw the line?

Where should the UCI draw the line on technology?

As Thomas Murray explains, not always so simple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb9Op9NEevw

Ceramic bearings legal - of course
Motorised assist illegal - of course too.

Aerodynamics a bit trickier

How about Electronic Shifting that senses the correct time to shift and does so automatically.
Legal or Illegal?
 
la.margna said:
According to Davide Cassani, ex-Pro and cycling commentator of the national Italian RAI TV channel, the silent pro version has been in existence since 2004 and according to his sources, some pro's have also made use of it. Now information however, for how long the battery lasts. Probably only for 20-30minutes, finishes or hard and decisive parts of the race.

In contrast to the loud retail version with the visible battery under the saddle, the pro version is silent and not visible...

check out the video (italian) to judge whether it's reality or nevertheless a hoax:

http://bit.ly/BiciDopata

In other words, you're saying that Cassani said that this is a Gruber Assist and that the pro version is much more silent than the retail one?

Please clarify. I want to know what Cassani really said.
 
Aug 8, 2009
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Another idea for a doped bike would be to have pure oxygen in the frame which you could dispense as needed. You could get a lot of oxygen without any pressure by basing it around some kind of chlorate candle in the down tube. I wonder if anybody has ever done something like that?