The ear piece should be banned from pro and top ranked amateur cycling

[Dewulf]

sorry if this has already appeared in this thread.

But cosmo catalano usually knows what hes talking about.

http://cyclocosm.com/2009/06/the-four-impossibilities-of-radio-free-racing/

I like Cosmo's "Periodic Table of Cycling Events", and a few other things he's done, and of course the often funny-as-hell How The Race Was Won (the Roubaix wrap-up was hilarious).

But on other things I find he gets very opinionated, to the point of getting on his high horse pretty often (eg. telling cycling journos to "do their job" and shut up about Vino already, a weak analysis of the Haussler-Cav crash at TdS).

And I think his radio-ban write-up is another example of it, he seems to make a lot of assumptions which help him write a pretty one-sided story. Read the comments at the bottom of that page which effectively disassemble his arguments too. Or if you want to save some time, look at it this way...he says it's impossible....but World Champs at Geelong proved him wrong. In fact as some have said, that was a damn interesting race.

 

[Arnout]

Nice response of Bruyneel on Gilbert: You want no race radio, then don't wear one!

And guess what, Frank and Andy Schleck both retweet. Really getting fed up with their behavior, thinking they're the ones that dictate cycling. Same holds for Bruyneel, but he is well-known already.

Really, do they think we value the opinion more of a guy who races 1 race a year and in that race constantly tells "I'm not going to attack, wait for the final day" than a guy who animates every race in which he participates, when we are talking about making races more exciting?

 

[ingsve]

I think the best case for keeping race radios is made by Jonathan Vaughters in this blogpost: http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/jonathan-vaughters/radio-silence

It quickly became apparent to me that the arguments of those in favor of a radio ban were unfounded. The impact of having no radios was not changing the tactics of the race at all, but it was reducing many “luck-founded” factors such as crashes, feeding, and flat tires to the lowest common denominator. Races were being won and lost not by team work, strength and cohesion, but by luck, lack of information and the bad fortune of others.

 

[Basecase]

A Solution

How about a neutral generic race radio that could be used by all teams.

Broadcast by race organisers it would give hazards, distance left, rider names/team in break.

Yet with this DS's would not be controlling their robots!!!!

 

[ingsve]

The ear piece should be banned from pro and top ranked amateur cycling . Bike racing should go back to some grass roots principles. A hard working breakaway struggles to maintain a hard fought lead , only to be reelled in by a peloton that has been told the exact bare minimum needed to catch the breakaway group 1 kilometer from the end of the race . These exact bare minimum speeds calculated on a computer . My bet is a peloton will give up much sooner if they dont know the exact speed they need to catch the break .
The theory , out of sight out of mind , plays a big role . Races would open up to more time differences , especially in a tour.
I believe it leads to better racing and more distinctive time differences in GC overall , less bunch finishes and hopefully less crashes .

Bike racer to Bike racer , what do you all think? Ban the earpiece right along with the dope.

Since when is more time diffrences a good thing? Nothing is worse than a GC where there are several minutes between each rider and the winner wins by 9 minutes.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I too am sick of watching pelotons catch riders 500m from the finish line, and watching a peloton ride over 4 cols for five hours only to wait until the last 2km to attack each other.

I think a bigger issue is time splits, and two-way radio. If radios worked where riders could contact the team ("need water", "flat!") or receive only serious road hazards from race directors, then maybe. But where they have an analytical conversation with the DS in the car who knows where every person is on the road, in every break, with exact time splits, and crunches numbers on everyone's wattage and HRM, it's just absurd.

I would even make the argument that team cars could be eliminated during certain sections of the road, and only replaced by neutral service vehicles. P-R does this now with some of the Pavé sections, it would be the same on some road courses.

There's nothing that wrong about leaving some of the racing up to chance and luck. And I don't see it making that huge of a difference.

 

[Anonymous]

@mark_renshaw wades in..

Trust me, If radios are banned you will see very negative racing. Just because a D.S is saying attack or be in front you still have to pedal

Im not sure what hes on about.

 

[The Hitch]

@mark_renshaw wades in..



Im not sure what hes on about.

Translation:

Cav will win less races and throw more tantrums, which as his roommate, will effect me the most.

 

[stainlessguy1]

Since when is more time diffrences a good thing? Nothing is worse than a GC where there are several minutes between each rider and the winner wins by 9 minutes.

Actually that never happens ,, although there are maybe minutes between , at times , usually the peloton times are in clumps or sub chasing groups with similar times ,, but yes the over all can change from stage to stage just from luck and circumstance . There is nothing nicer than watching an underdog team fight for the time gap in GC to close again not in the same stage but during the tour.
There is something about a big time difference when someone breaks and makes it. It really is the classic stage win that any racer dreams about . The powering away by a stylish strong rider , Like Fabian Cancellera powering away from his breaking group while they are trying to keep up in his slipstream out of the saddle and they cant hold him in the corners the cant hold him on the straight , they are out of the saddle and are sprinting and he just rides away . Oh that is soooo lovely to see, that is a classic win .
That is what no radios will bring back ... classic wins in classic style , never mind all this sitting in the bunch and sprinting in the end .

 

[Oldman]

I checked in when this thread was new and it blew up overnight. It's been debated before but there are many new posters hashing the issue again and nothing new has come to light.
IMlessthanHO:
A good team a)keeps attentive to activity off the front of the group b)keeps a solid rider alongside a protected rider to handle mishaps and mechanicals c)is able to think through options as the race progresses. If they need the DS's opinion; let someone go back to the car and get it. The racing is always better that way.

 

[ingsve]

Actually that never happens ,, although there are maybe minutes between , at times , usually the peloton times are in clumps or sub chasing groups with similar times ,, but yes the over all can change from stage to stage just from luck and circumstance . There is nothing nicer than watching an underdog team fight for the time gap in GC to close again not in the same stage but during the tour.
There is something about a big time difference when someone breaks and makes it. It really is the classic stage win that any racer dreams about . The powering away by a stylish strong rider , Like Fabian Cancellera powering away from his breaking group while they are trying to keep up in his slipstream out of the saddle and they cant hold him in the corners the cant hold him on the straight , they are out of the saddle and are sprinting and he just rides away . Oh that is soooo lovely to see, that is a classic win .
That is what no radios will bring back ... classic wins in classic style , never mind all this sitting in the bunch and sprinting in the end .

Ah, you're talking about time diffrences during a stage...I'm talking about time diffrence in overall GC. The former leads to the latter and the latter makes for boring overall competitions.

 

[ingsve]

People are grossly exaggerating the current importance of DSs for tactics during the race. The DS very often be more clueless than the riders themselves so banning radions won't change much tactically at all.

Also, if DSs are the ones that can control their puppets then why the need for all the top teams to have road captains? If you look at Beyond the Peloton with Cervelo Test Team you see that the guy leading the team with tactics is not Van Poppel, it's Andreas Klier.

When it comes to breaks holding vs the bunch catching them then its' not like the peloton never fails. In fact in recent years the precision of the peloton to catch the breaks have been much poorer than in the past with examples of the bunch failing to catch them or catching them way too soon.

And the reason we're seeing more sprints nowadays is because of team mentality. In the past when the top sprinters had gotten a couple of stage wins they were happy to let long breaks go but in recent years Team Columbia has gotten greedy and wants 5-6 stage wins instead of 2. I don't remember the last time we saw the classic break of 10-15 riders get their 10-15 minutes without the peloton bothering with it. There used to be 2-3 stages like that every GT in the past but now the top sprinting teams don't let those groups form. That won't change by removing radios. If anything the sprint teams will have an even tighter control over breaks and never let them get more than 3 minutes to guarantee that they have the break under control.

 

[craig1985]

Some of the views of Michael Rogers:

# Great thinking! RT @MichaelKHolden: I'm for the use of Race Radio - provided they can be broadcast on TV, e.g. Formula 1. 19 minutes ago via Echofon

# Roundabouts, road furniture, oil on road, cars coming in opposite direction etc 35 minutes ago via Echofon

# Contrary to the belief, race radios are not all about tactics. Lots of info comes across giving riders heads up. Example, traffic islands 37 minutes ago via Echofon

# @jfricker @Loon419 Don't worry about the riders saftey! about 1 hour ago via Echofon in reply to jfricker

# Too right! RT @Bikezilla1: rides lack the guts to organize and back it up with "strikes". Until they find their nads UCI has a free hand. about 1 hour ago via Echofon

# So 18 out of 20 teams are in favor for the use of race radios and the UCI still bans them. Come on UCI, wake up! about 1 hour ago via Echofon

 

[craig1985]

Radios have been the biggest disaster in cycling this past decade. Get rid of them now!!! Riders riding on instinct and knowledge is as much a part of racing as slipstreaming. Not some manger in the team car watching the race on TV dictating the race as he see's it. It reminds me when Georgio Squinzani (spelling???) owner of Team Mapei called in the orders of the placings for his team for the 1996 Paris-Roubaix race from Italy????. Is this what you wish cycling to become??? No more robots on bikes please

I think you'll find that is illegal now. But never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

 

[bobbins]

How about when there is a hazard in the road the riders just point i tout or shout at each other?

Funny how they are never vocal about other issues affecting the sport. There seems to have been more written about the radio ban by the riders than is ever written about the scourge of doping or other problems like when Unibet got screwed over.

They are professionals so should start acting like professionals. I would bet that they have been told what to say by their teams.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

funny how they are never vocal about other issues affecting the sport. There seems to have been more written about the radio ban by the riders than is ever written about the scourge of doping or other problems like when unibet got screwed over.

+1

...............

 

[Anonymous]

Just have a neutral race radio that warns of hazards and crashes, and give policemen bigger red flags.

Possibly have one way radio for riders to let the team car know if they puncture etc.

WE managed without radio for years. To me its a non issue.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Radios don't really bother me. Riders still have to make descisions and it doesn't bother me that DS's are telling riders what to do

 

[craig1985]

The 2010 Giro had radio's and I think we can all agree that the 2010 Giro was one of the best Grad Tour's in a long time.

 

[cyclingPRpro]

The 2010 Giro had radio's and I think we can all agree that the 2010 Giro was one of the best Grad Tour's in a long time.

^this.....

 

[Mambo95]

Radios don't really bother me. Riders still have to make descisions and it doesn't bother me that DS's are telling riders what to do

I agree with you. The impact of radios is vastly overstated. I've yet to see in-car footage where a DS has made a big tactical call. By contrast look at the film Chasing Legends - stage 3 of the 2009 TdF. There the HTC had clearly previously identified the possibility of a cross wind and the DS reminded them, but the call to hit the front on mass was made by Mick Rogers, not Rolf Aldag.

 

[boardhanger]

If they're so over-rated why have 'em??

 

[TexPat]

They don't NEED radios, they want them because they are used to them and are lazy and can't be bothered to think any more. It is also someone else fault if the DS makes the wrong call.

The notion that radios are a safety call is total BS. How can a car 200m behind the race warn the riders of an obstacle? There are motorbike comms that can do that.

I'l be glad to see the back of them and get back to proper racing.

Of course they need radios. History has shown that countless deaths have occurred in the peloton due to the lack of radios. Kind of like helmets...

 

[ingsve]

If they're so over-rated why have 'em??

They're a great utility to ease communication to make things run smoother and to remove randomness in the case of incidents. It's their impact on the race tactics that is overrated.

You can almost look at it like electronic gear systems. An electronic gear system is not going to win you the race but it will make gearing smoother and make it less likely to have problem with the gears. It would not make sense to ban electronic gears by arguing that having problem with your gearing is part of cycling.

 

[woodie]

If they're so over-rated why have 'em??

He's saying you guys who want it banned are blowing it out of proportion. Read his post again