The Evidence

[BotanyBay]

Hey, I notice your sig.

Is it possible that Armstrong has called BW demanding that he have nothing to do with P. Kimmage? I recall Kimmage was about to be embedded with Sky, when he was unceremoniously dumped - apparently on the bidding of Brad. Was it around that time Brad started to be publicly very nice about Lance and his legacy.

So we might have both BW and LA anti-Kimmage - one b/c he hates Kimmage for calling him out all these years. The other b/c he is using PEDs (and using a program very like LAs) and b/c Lance the "Godfather" demanded he blacklist Kimmage.

People will be astonished at just how involved their hero was in Godfatherism. That's funny, I typed my term before seeing that you'd included the word Godfather. That's kismet!

 

[Race Radio]

Lance Armstrong's closest confidant may have forced him to quit fight against doping charges

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lance-armstrong-s-closest-confidant-may-have-forced-him-to-wave-the-white-flag.html

"Most definitely," the source responded when asked by Yahoo! Sports if Hincapie's information was a critical element of the evidence of doping it had connected with Armstrong.

 

[zigmeister]

People will be astonished at just how involved their hero was in Godfatherism. That's funny, I typed my term before seeing that you'd included the word Godfather. That's kismet!

You can't be a "Godfather" without hoards of complicit people willing to go along with it. Or, Lance had a gun to all of their heads.

This is the entire "conspriracy" theory and approach. Which, the Feds couldn't gather enough evidence and prove to a Grand Jury anything took place to move forward with an actual charge and trial of conspiracy.

 

[hiero2]

This really describes the experience of several friends and former teammates of Lance that refused to Program Up.

Dr. Prentice Steffen, his diplomas attest to the fact, is a model doctor. Specialist in both Emergency Medicine and Sports Medicine, he worked for four years, from 1993-1996, with the American cyclists of the teams Subaru-Montgomery then US Postal. In 1996, "during the height of the reign of EPO", his riders were totally destroyed during the Tour of Switzerland and two among them, Marty Jemison and Tyler Hamilton, asked him in veiled words to help them dope. He refused and alerted the team directors. At the end of the year, his contract was not renewed and one morning the mailman delivered him a registered letter with the intimidation order to not talk about his experience in the heart of US Postal. "A few months later," he remembers, "the nine riders of the team rode the Champs-Elysees of the finish of the 1997 Tour de France. I realized they'd move on to EPO...". Today, despite threats from Lance Armstrong (1), Dr. Steffen is still in the milieu (of cycling). He takes care of a team of young American professionals (TIAA-CREF) which disputed the latest edition of the Tour de l'Avenir.

One in particular was told Mr. Weisel found him "unprofessional" for refusing Eddie B's program on Mont-Subaru. This, well before USPS. The die was cast from top of the organization to the bottom very early on.

Note to Gree: yes, someone was in the room then when Lance got his shot...

Another unattributed quote. You make what you have quoted garbage. Please post the link, or list the source. We need to be able to verify and validate. Either the link, or sufficient information that I can go to my local library and find the source.

 

[TubularBills]

Another unattributed quote. You make what you have quoted garbage. Please post the link, or list the source. We need to be able to verify and validate. Either the link, or sufficient information that I can go to my local library and find the source.

Post #128 Upthread... translation of:

L'EQUIPE
October 6, 2005, page 12.
English translation of "Ce qui s'est passe sur le Tour 2005".

 

[TubularBills]

Star Witness | George Hincapie

Lance Armstrong's closest confidant may have forced him to quit fight against doping charges

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/lance-armstrong-s-closest-confidant-may-have-forced-him-to-wave-the-white-flag.html

Nice find + Telegraph Article quoted in RR link:

Riding revelations from 'best bro’ George Hincapie likely to hold key to Lance Armstrong's about-turn

 

[Benotti69]

Star Witness | George Hincapie



Nice find + Telegraph Article quoted in RR link:

Riding revelations from 'best bro’ George Hincapie likely to hold key to Lance Armstrong's about-turn

I wonder was Horner following Hincapie on to the Champs d'Lysse an order from Amrstrong.

 

[TubularBills]

The Benzwire Dish | Great Post | A Primer

Don't know if this has been posted, but I saw this on Velonews' forum. It's the Dan Patrick podcast (hour 3, Aug 24) also available on iTunes. Travis Tygart interview:
http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/station_content/727/120824_DP_Hour_3_1345825216_30307.mp3

Also a great podcast that everyone should be listening to, the Velocast, has a "Lance Armstrong Special Episode". Great pod!
http://velocastcc.squarespace.com/race-radio/2012/8/27/lance-armstrong-special-edition.html

 

[Oldman]

Another unattributed quote. You make what you have quoted garbage. Please post the link, or list the source. We need to be able to verify and validate. Either the link, or sufficient information that I can go to my local library and find the source.

Oh...the event occurred in Weisel's Park City residence where the team was training. You won't find that at the library either. It did happen.

 

[Deagol]

Here is an example of the findings of a USADA Arbitration Panelfor the case of Kayle Leogrande. From what I have read, it is this case that may have been the catalyst for this whole Armstrong investigation. Clinic regular Joe Pap is mentioned quite frequently, as he was quite heavily involved in this case. The decision seems well-reasoned and clear to me. It cuts through the cloud created by obvious lies and denials of the Respondant (Leogrande).

As an aside, I remember when Leogrande first came under suspicion and Michael Ball was defending him in the press, called him a "family man" or some other BS. After reading the arbitration decision carefully, one can infer that Frankie Andreu may have argued that Leogrand be terminated but that he was over-ruled by a pro-doping team management structure with Ball at the top. This could explain Andreau's departure from the team (if voluntary or forced)? If true, kudos to Frankie, it appears he tried to do the right thing and was punished for it.

Almost more importantly, it seems to establish that this investigation of USPS, if indeed predicated by the Leogrande discovery, is not a witch-hunt at all, but rather a logical and nessisary next step in the never-ending process of policing sport- (I should note that I have also heard that there may have been a second discovery on Leogrande where when he moved out of his apartment, many drugs were actually found there. This apparently occured after this finding by the Arbitration Panel, thereby confirming their result).

Question for RR or anyone who really knows: can we expect a similar document such as this to be issued by USADA for the LA case, even though arbitration did not occur? Will they set forth the evidence, the names of those who offered testimony, etc? Will they need to wait till the other USPS respondants' cases are heard before releasing this info?

Also: It appears to me at this moment that Lance may still hold most or part of his power to intimidate witnesses in the public sphere (based on the stuborn support many still give him). If this document is to be released, do you think that the spin machine will go after these witnesses even after LA has been stripped? ... ironically the document itself could/should decrease that power, if only the American public would learn to read.

 

[Race Radio]

So one former USPS rider admitted .......and is now having 2nd thoughts.

Wonder if he will go punch someone again?

 

[Microchip]

So one former USPS rider admitted .......and is now having 2nd thoughts.

Wonder if he will go punch someone again?

Couldn't be Contador, he was with Discovery not earlier than 2007. Hmmmm.....

 

[kcycle12]

So one former USPS rider admitted .......and is now having 2nd thoughts.
Wonder if he will go punch someone again?

(soon to be) public 2nd thoughts? Is MJ gonna turn into another pro-armstrong talking point?

 

[Microchip]

But he can't UNadmit!! He's going to suddenly say he lied??

 

[Race Radio]

(soon to be) public 2nd thoughts? Is MJ gonna turn into another pro-armstrong talking point?

It will be public. The best part is when you Google his name the 4th result that comes up is TFF at his best........Comedy gold

 

[Benotti69]

It will be public. The best part is when you Google his name the 4th result that comes up is TFF at his best........Comedy gold

he came up number 3 for me

 

[Robert21]

Is it possible that Armstrong has called BW demanding that he have nothing to do with P. Kimmage? I recall Kimmage was about to be embedded with Sky, when he was unceremoniously dumped - apparently on the bidding of Brad. Was it around that time Brad started to be publicly very nice about Lance and his legacy.

Or perhaps the UCI demanded that Wiggins and co publicly support Armstrong and bar Kimmage in return for getting the same 'protected status' as they gave Armstrong?

I think that Kimmage himself has probably had thoughts along these lines:

Yet for now, the lie of the land remains strikingly similar to how it appeared in 1999. Back then, the UCI, ASO and large swathes of the press were lauding Armstrong as the saviour of cycling as he opened up the hitherto largely untapped American market.

Fast forward thirteen years and Bradley Wiggins’ Tour victory is bringing cycling centre stage in another new market, Great Britain. The general euphoria was summed up by a British tabloid printing cut-out Wiggins sideburns for fans to wear on the roadside, but on the eve of the Olympics, McQuaid himself went so far as to tell The Associated Press that he was hoping for more British success at the Games.

“It would be great if it happened because it's another edition to this fairy-tale story," McQuaid said. "It would be great for cycling and great for the Olympic Games."

On its launch in 2010, Sky was widely lauded for its proudly stated commitment to clean cycling, but in spite of its current status as the sport’s flagship team, Sky has shown no willingness to break the pervasive silence on the Armstrong affair and its possible repercussions for the future governance of cycling.

“Let’s make no bones about it – this Wiggins victory is huge for the UCI,” Kimmage says. “Britain is a big market with bike sales going through the roof, massive interest there. It’s Big Pat’s back garden and he’s very obviously thrilled by it because every time you look at him, he’s got his arm around Brailsford. So is it a coincidence that something like this happens and we don’t hear a word from any of them? Not Brailsford, not Wiggins, not any of them.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/kimmage-uci-needs-root-and-branch-surgery

I love McQuaid's use of the term 'fairy-tale story'.

 

[diorgen]

(soon to be) public 2nd thoughts? Is MJ gonna turn into another pro-armstrong talking point?

Who is this in reference to?

 

[eyemgh]

He's just one of a purported many, but what can the USADA hang over his head to compel his individual testimony? Disallow him from saying he rode in the tour?

M

 

[Benotti69]

Or perhaps the UCI demanded that Wiggins and co publicly support Armstrong and bar Kimmage in return for getting the same 'protected status' as they gave Armstrong?

Equally as valid as CFs.

 

[kcycle12]

Who is this in reference to?

Marty Jemison

 

[MarkvW]

You can't be a "Godfather" without hoards of complicit people willing to go along with it. Or, Lance had a gun to all of their heads.

This is the entire "conspriracy" theory and approach. Which, the Feds couldn't gather enough evidence and prove to a Grand Jury anything took place to move forward with an actual charge and trial of conspiracy.

A criminal conspiracy and a bike racing doping conspiracy are too very different things. If the feds only had to prove that Lance conspired to dope to win bike races, Lance would be residing at la Casa Grande right now!

 

[Velodude]

So one former USPS rider admitted .......and is now having 2nd thoughts.

Wonder if he will go punch someone again?

I notice on Google he conducts cycling tours to the TdF and other European race related locations. (http://www.martyjemison.com)

Phil Anderson (former Motorola rider 1991-94 and race mentor to LA) also conducts cycling tours to the TdF.

Anderson currently is a strong supporter that LA raced clean eventhough he made no secret that he left Motorola and retired in 1994 because of EPO and the resulting increase in speed of the peloton.

If these riders expressed a view that LA doped they would find a lot of doors closing in Europe to their cycling tours that were open to them as former professional racers.

 

[JPM London]

It will be public. The best part is when you Google his name the 4th result that comes up is TFF at his best........Comedy gold

Wow... Dog vomit? Really?

 

[mewmewmew13]

People will be astonished at just how involved their hero was in Godfatherism. That's funny, I typed my term before seeing that you'd included the word Godfather. That's kismet!

I used this term several days ago....
it seemed the most appropriate.