The Evidence

[ManInFull]

Back to the Evidence:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hamilton-says-armstrong-gave-him-epo-before-1999-tour-de-france

Hamilton says Armstrong gave him EPO before 1999 Tour de France.

Dave.

So, he's told this to the grand jury and to 60 Minutes and also written it about in his upcoming book. Of course, since he cheated, got caught, and lied about it, his word can never be trusted again.....

 

[D-Queued]

So, he's told this to the grand jury and to 60 Minutes and also written it about in his upcoming book. Of course, since he cheated, got caught, and lied about it, his word can never be trusted again.....

I remember the white lunch bags.

Thought the parts about scoring EPO from Lance in Nice in 1999, and the motorcycle delivery services were new, however.

Dave.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I remember the white lunch bags.

Thought the parts about scoring EPO from Lance in Nice in 1999, and the motorcycle delivery services were new, however.

Dave.

The refrigerated panniers...remember?
Although the comment "Floyd's got a picture of it" was supposed to be an erroneous statement. Maybe.

 

[Merckx index]

Back to the Evidence:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hamilton-says-armstrong-gave-him-epo-before-1999-tour-de-france

Hamilton says Armstrong gave him EPO before 1999 Tour de France.

Dave.

I question whether Tyler’s book at this point is a bad thing for LA. It will just let LA emphasize the message that the evidence against him is from non-credible witnesses who have cheated and lied before. What we need now is detailed testimony from someone like George, or JB (which was my guess who RR might be talking about; I don't think Kristen or Sheryl would be as credible or informative as a witness as George). I think Tyler’s book plays right into LA’s hands, reinforcing the wishful thinking among LA's supporters that USADA has nothing new and damaging.

Wrt the hcG argument: As KayLow pointed out, Walsh’s point was not that LA doped with hCG, it was that high levels of hCG, which were apparently tested for at that time, often accompany testicular cancer. This is completely correct, and nothing else from the passage that KayLow posted is relevant.

Nevertheless, apparently determined to find something wrong with the account of Walsh, who is not a scientist, Ziggy has focused on this:

Comparable to anabolic steroids, beta-hCG stimulates muscle growth, increases training capacity, stimulates levels of aggression, and pushes back the fatigue threshold.

Ziggy is correct that hCG does not DIRECTLY stimulate muscle growth, and so on, in the manner that testosterone or anabolic steroids do. But as his own post makes clear, it does stimulate muscle growth INDIRECTLY, by its effect on testosterone. So technically, this sentence, which does not specify whether the effect is direct or indirect, is correct, except that to call the effect “comparable” to that of anabolic steroids is misleading.

I think we can agree this sentence should not have been worded in this manner, and that Walsh probably does not have a solid understanding of hormone interactions. But it has no effect at all on the claim that LA might have had high levels of a substance that should have been detected in a doping test.

Why it would have been missed, though, is hard to fathom. This was clearly a time when LA had none of then protection that he is alleged to have had later. It would have to be incompetence, not corruption. Would LA have been notified of negative tests at this time, or only of positive ones? If he was notified of a negative test, it sounds like a mixup of samples, but if that were the case, then some other rider should have been notified of a positive.

Kudos to Ashenden for responding to Phil, though as a battle of wits, it's so lop-sided as to be grotesque.

 

[D-Queued]

The refrigerated panniers...remember?
Although the comment "Floyd's got a picture of it" was supposed to be an erroneous statement. Maybe.

I definitely recall refrigerated panniers.

That came from the IM conversation between Frankie and Jonathan, and supposedly was about blood bags and not EPO. But, you are right, maybe the stories are blended, or maybe one is simply a continued practice from the other.

Note that Tyler's press release is getting fast and broad coverage.

Nothing like some foreshadowing from Lance to help accelerate the marketing engine.

Ex-teammate: I cheated with Lance

Dave.

 

[Maxiton]

Who could be better than Hincapie?

Never followed the USPS/Disco team closely since it was obv they were juicing.

Funny would be the Comical man himself, no?

Possibilities:

1) Chris Comical would be a killer witness. Could anyone be a more powerful witness against LA than CC? Yes,

2) Bruyneel. Not only does he know where the bodies are buried, he's the one who buried them! But an even more powerful witness would be

3) LA's MOM!

Okay, it probably isn't her. But if it were her you must admit it would be powerful.

My vote goes to Bruyneel. He was essentially a Lance-picked employee. He has every incentive to throw LA and the UCI under the bus. He has no incentive not to, when his own future is at stake. Plus he (probably) has little-to-no sense of honor.

 

[Microchip]

My vote goes to Bruyneel. He was essentially a Lance-picked employee. He has every incentive to throw LA and the UCI under the bus. He has no incentive not to, when his own future is at stake. Plus he (probably) has little-to-no sense of honor.

Agreed! His Siamese twin would be the best witness!

 

[ManInFull]

My vote goes to Bruyneel. He was essentially a Lance-picked employee. He has every incentive to throw LA and the UCI under the bus. He has no incentive not to, when his own future is at stake. Plus he (probably) has little-to-no sense of honor.

Seriously? Come on. Bruyneel is never going to turn on Lance. The most credible witness would be Hincapie.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I question whether Tyler’s book at this point is a bad thing for LA. It will just let LA emphasize the message that the evidence against him is from non-credible witnesses who have cheated and lied before. What we need now is detailed testimony from someone like George, or JB (which was my guess who RR might be talking about; I don't think Kristen or Sheryl would be as credible or informative as a witness as George). I think Tyler’s book plays right into LA’s hands, reinforcing the wishful thinking among LA's supporters that USADA has nothing new and damaging.

Then why would Lance not fight if it "plays right into his hands"? Im with you, just asking.....

 

[BroDeal]

My guess...

Huggy Bear says the word on the street is that Armstrong broke up with his wife when she had an affair with her running coach. I wonder if she knew that Armstrong was horndogging his way around the world for years and years.

 

[thehog]

Huggy Bear says the word on the street is that Armstrong broke up with his wife when she had an affair with her running coach. I wonder if she knew that Armstrong was horndogging his way around the world for years and years.

They broke up because he was having an affiar with a French women. And several others.

Around the same time he put a keystroke logging device on her computer as she was emailing friends about his "activities".

 

[sittingbison]

...Why it would have been missed, though, is hard to fathom. This was clearly a time when LA had none of then protection that he is alleged to have had later. It would have to be incompetence, not corruption....

Surely the obvious answer (and is the one probably being made indirectly) is that the samples being tested were not Lances? The practice of using others urine, fake penises, hidden bags, hell I can even remember one bloke injecting someone elses urine into his bladder FFS, was going on all the time back then. Controls not as rigorous on visuals, no blood etc

 

[mewmewmew13]

They broke up because he was having an affiar with a French women. And several others.

Around the same time he put a keystroke logging device on her computer as she was emailing friends about his "activities".

He has those close.set small eyes....
screams problematic personality

 

[Maxiton]

Seriously? Come on. Bruyneel is never going to turn on Lance. The most credible witness would be Hincapie.

Agreed, but RR's tease was "an even more credible witness than Hincapie," so the game was figuring out who that could possibly be. What's your guess?

 

[benzwire]

Agreed, but RR's tease was "an even more credible witness than Hincapie," so the game was figuring out who that could possibly be. What's your guess?

As much as I want to know, I think I want to know Race Radio's identity even more! That guy seems to know a whole lot of good insider info. Who is he?

 

[BroDeal]

As much as I want to know, I think I want to know Race Radio's identity even more! That guy seems to know a whole lot of good insider info. Who is he?

 

[sittingbison]

Agreed, but RR's tease was "an even more credible witness than Hincapie," so the game was figuring out who that could possibly be. What's your guess?

Couldn't be a rider, none more credible than Big George.
It's not the Hog, he has nothing to bargain with.
That leaves a mole in UCI HQ or Lausanne Lab (not Saugy though)

Schenk?

 

[BroDeal]

Couldn't be a rider, none more credible than Big George.
It's not the Hog, he has nothing to bargain with.
That leaves a mole in UCI HQ or Lausanne Lab (not Saugy though)

Schenk?

It's Dr. Ferrari and his dope schedules.

 

[thehog]

"To Lance's way of thinking, doping is a fact of life, like oxygen or gravity," Hamilton writes of Armstrong, who last week abandoned his challenge to the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, which banned him for life and invalidated his record seven Tour de France titles.

"With the other stuff, you swallow a pill or put on a patch or get a tiny injection," Hamilton writes. "But here you're watching a big clear plastic bag slowly fill up with your warm dark red blood. You never forget it."

"I got to where I could estimate my hematocrit level by the color of my blood," Hamilton writes, referring to a measurement of red blood cells.

Hamilton writes that once he started cooperating with federal investigators he suspected that his phones and email accounts were hacked. He details a notorious 2011encounter with Armstrong at a restaurant in Aspen, Colorado. Hamilton says Armstrong confronted him there, promising to make Hamilton's life hellish.

"When you're on the witness stand, we are going to f---ing tear you apart," Armstrong said, according to Hamilton. "You are going to look like an f---ing idiot."


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...acuses-doping-article-1.1148508#ixzz255mVRmJp

 

[Epicycle]

"To Lance's way of thinking, doping is a fact of life, like oxygen or gravity," Hamilton writes of Armstrong, who last week abandoned his challenge to the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, which banned him for life and invalidated his record seven Tour de France titles.

"With the other stuff, you swallow a pill or put on a patch or get a tiny injection," Hamilton writes. "But here you're watching a big clear plastic bag slowly fill up with your warm dark red blood. You never forget it."

"I got to where I could estimate my hematocrit level by the color of my blood," Hamilton writes, referring to a measurement of red blood cells.

Hamilton writes that once he started cooperating with federal investigators he suspected that his phones and email accounts were hacked. He details a notorious 2011encounter with Armstrong at a restaurant in Aspen, Colorado. Hamilton says Armstrong confronted him there, promising to make Hamilton's life hellish.

"When you're on the witness stand, we are going to f---ing tear you apart," Armstrong said, according to Hamilton. "You are going to look like an f---ing idiot."


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...acuses-doping-article-1.1148508#ixzz255mVRmJp

Tyler must be lying because Bjarne said he left involvement with doping behind when he became a DS.

 

[MarkvW]

Tyler must be lying because Bjarne said he left involvement with doping behind when he became a DS.

Tyler must be lying because Bjarne never failed a drug test while he was DS.

 

[knewcleardaze]

He has those close.set small eyes....
screams problematic personality

And here I thought I was nuts to be suspect of people whose eyes are too close together!

 

[sittingbison]

And here I thought I was nuts to be suspect of people whose eyes are too close together!

nup, my mum always warned me about men whose eyes are too close together. I think she watched to many EG Robinson and Bogey filums

 

[Ferminal]

"When you're on the witness stand, we are going to f---ing tear you apart," Armstrong said, according to Hamilton. "You are going to look like an f---ing idiot."


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...acuses-doping-article-1.1148508#ixzz255mVRmJp

How about that witness stand, Lance?

 

[D-Queued]

How about that witness stand, Lance?

Odd how Lance avoided it himself. Just odd.

Dave.