The Evidence

[The Hitch]

Seriously? Once one former teammate opens his mouth about Lancey one nut, the rest will follow....that means the stuff gets worse and worse, and then it'll show just how much of a slimeball,POS, scamming, lying, ******bag the man really is. It'll only get worse from the first one to speak on down, trust me. THATS what Pharmstrong DOES NOT WANT coming out.

He's a fraud, a phoney, a liar, and many many more things. Trust me when i say, once the evidence hits, he'll wish he'd have been put into the witness protection program, I doubt he'll have a sponsor/fan/supporter left. Unless there really are brain dead, gullible, imbecillic people out there

You dont seem to me to have seen the Armstrong fans. Every comments section of every article, evrery phone in, every "send in your opinion via text" every poll, the majority of people are convinced that Armstrong "passing 500 tests" is conclusive proof that he was clean.

Even if he came out and confessed himself they would insist that it had been aliens hijacking his brain, (working with the french)

 

[BotanyBay]

Admins:

Can we please keep this thread as a literal depository for the actual evidence content itself? The only posts allowed will be the evidence quotes and the sources. Please delete any other kinds of messages.

Others: Please don't debate in this thread. Bring that to the "LA/USADA II" thread. Feel free to quote POSTS from this thread, but don't argue in here.

For once, I'd like this forum to have an "easy to reference" aspect to it.

Thanks everyone. Bash me in the other thread (if you must).

 

[86TDFWinner]

Admins:

Can we please keep this thread as a literal depository for the actual evidence content itself? The only posts allowed will be the evidence quotes and the sources. Please delete any other kinds of messages.

Others: Please don't debate in this thread. Bring that to the "LA/USADA II" thread. Feel free to quote POSTS from this thread, but don't argue in here.

For once, I'd like this forum to have an "easy to reference" aspect to it.

Thanks everyone. Bash me in the other thread (if you must).

No bashing here, my apologies.....you got it.

 

[Benotti69]

Admins:

Can we please keep this thread as a literal depository for the actual evidence content itself? The only posts allowed will be the evidence quotes and the sources. Please delete any other kinds of messages.

Others: Please don't debate in this thread. Bring that to the "LA/USADA II" thread. Feel free to quote POSTS from this thread, but don't argue in here.

For once, I'd like this forum to have an "easy to reference" aspect to it.

Thanks everyone. Bash me in the other thread (if you must).

Good call.

If a mod can move all posts not evidence to the USADAII thread and leave this for actual evidence.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

Seriously? Once one former teammate opens his mouth about Lancey one nut, the rest will follow....that means the stuff gets worse and worse, and then it'll show just how much of a slimeball,POS, scamming, lying, ******bag the man really is. It'll only get worse from the first one to speak on down, trust me. THATS what Pharmstrong DOES NOT WANT coming out.

He's a fraud, a phoney, a liar, and many many more things. Trust me when i say, once the evidence hits, he'll wish he'd have been put into the witness protection program, I doubt he'll have a sponsor/fan/supporter left. Unless there really are brain dead, gullible, imbecillic people out there

they all lied, armstrong just was a bit better at it than most. big mistake.

i'm saying we've already had two prime time confessions and this has not dramatically changed armstrong's reputation. all the stuff about covered up tests, EPO use, blood transfusions, it's all come out. a transcript of hincapie will be damanging but it's nothing we haven't heard before.

i very much doubt these riders will want to speak about it. hincapie has made it plain he is very proud of helping armstrong to win those tours - he made a statement on that when the USADA announced the charges.

 

[sniper]

After hearing so many different true believers on so many different programmes over the last 2 days, i am hoping for some evidence that even they cant dispute. Everything from today they will just dismiss as witch hunt.

we've seen some indisputable evidence already (the cortisone + EPO positives particularly), yet the believers and facilitators ignore and/or dispute it.

I assume the evidence of UCI coverups will also be mostly testimonial rather than of the shotgun type, but I might be wrong.

 

[Race Radio]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444358404577609510839091278.html

UCI refused to allow Armstrong samples to be part of program to develop new tests

This WSJ article is good but there are a few things missing

In 2001 Dr Leon Schattenberg from the UCI called Saugy and told him to drop it, the positive was "Going nowhere"

The UCI then arranged for a personal visit for Bruyneel to the lab so he could better understand the testing process, and make sure it did not happen again

In May 2010 some representatives from the UCI visited the lab to assess how much information had been given to the Feds. Shortly after Saugy changed his public story

It would be nice if someone would ask Pat if he ever told any riders or staff not to cooperate with the Federal probe as it was 'Going nowhere". I wonder if Lance told him that? It seems Wonderboy liked to brag about all his friends in the Justice Department. How they were going to take care of him

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

Admins:

Can we please keep this thread as a literal depository for the actual evidence content itself? The only posts allowed will be the evidence quotes and the sources. Please delete any other kinds of messages.

Others: Please don't debate in this thread. Bring that to the "LA/USADA II" thread. Feel free to quote POSTS from this thread, but don't argue in here.

For once, I'd like this forum to have an "easy to reference" aspect to it.

Thanks everyone. Bash me in the other thread (if you must).

maybe you could start your own blog. this is a discussion forum, not a pressure group.

 

[The Cobra]

Hi BPC,
His legacy as the biggest doping fraud will indeed remain intact, but a lot more detail will start to come out and people (the remaining few) will realize he did not just dope, but bullied and bought many people too.

Thats a great legacy to have.

The remaining few? From what I've read in comments sections on various websites over the last few days the fanboys are still in the majority big time. I thought when he was actually banned people might wake up, unfortunately not. The Armstrong PR machine is very effective and I can't imagine any ''evidence'' that could come out to change the mindset of the masses. Armstrong has managed to convince them that anything other than a positive test is circumstantial evidence which is obviously bull**** and lies. I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

 

[barn yard]

The remaining few? From what I've read in comments sections on various websites over the last few days the fanboys are still in the majority big time.

the vast majority of those comments are not from real people, they are from PR bots employed to give the perception of public opinion

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The remaining few? From what I've read in comments sections on various websites over the last few days the fanboys are still in the majority big time. I thought when he was actually banned people might wake up, unfortunately not. The Armstrong PR machine is very effective and I can't imagine any ''evidence'' that could come out to change the mindset of the masses. Armstrong has managed to convince them that anything other than a positive test is circumstantial evidence which is obviously bull**** and lies. I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

I rarely read comment sections - they are always populated with the fanatics. And Armstrong has had a PR firm before so it may not even be genuine opinion.

We saw it on the Penn State issue - the fanatics will stick with it no matter what, even though most acknowledge Armstrong doped.
But the casual sports fan will only see headlines and read one or two articles.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

the vast majority of those comments are not from real people, they are from PR bots employed to give the perception of public opinion

is there anybody left who believes this now? armstrong doesn't control the internet - it was a myth.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

I rarely read comment sections - they are always populated with the fanatics. And Armstrong has had a PR firm before so it may not even be genuine opinion.

We saw it on the Penn State issue - the fanatics will stick with it no matter what, even though most acknowledge Armstrong doped.
But the casual sports fan will only see headlines and read one or two articles.

i don't value comments under articles either. always amazed at the way some people take them very seriously - i rarely read them whatever the article is about. as a general rule of thumb, they tend to be very negative. negative people have the most passion and are obsessed with the issue. it's only when a story breaks into the mainstream, as this armstrong story does, that normal people bother comment.

 

[gree0232]

“There were rumours that he transferred blood from the United States in his private jet.”

Nice. Funded by cancer money, no doubt.

When the believers realise the truth there will be hell to pay...

Exactly the point. Rumors, innuendo, speculation, and ... insults, are not proof.

This is what is destroying our sport.

 

[luckyboy]

maybe you could start your own blog. this is a discussion forum, not a pressure group.

Would be nice to have threads that had easy to find links and quotes rather than devolving into pages and pages of arguments and debate with a new bit of evidence randomly added now and then.
Needs a stickied thread to make everything easily accessible.

 

[Benotti69]

is there anybody left who believes this now? armstrong doesn't control the internet - it was a myth.

the BPCism is hard to suppress is it not?

 

[barn yard]

is there anybody left who believes this now? armstrong doesn't control the internet - it was a myth.

really BPC? just because you dont get get paid to write this garbage doesnt mean others dont...

 

[hrotha]

This WSJ article is good but there are a few things missing

In 2001 Shotenburg (sp) from the UCI called Saugy and told him to drop it, the positive was "Going nowhere"

The UCI then arranged for a personal visit for Bruyneel to the lab so he could better understand the testing process, and make sure it did not happen again

In May 2010 some representatives from the UCI visited the lab to assess how much information had been given to the Feds. Shortly after Saugy changed his public story

It would be nice if someone would ask Pat if he ever told any riders or staff not to cooperate with the Federal probe as it was 'Going nowhere". I wonder if Lance told him that? It seems Wonderboy liked to brag about all his friends in the Justice Department. How they were going to take care of him

I was looking for a link to this story earlier today to educate the masses, and from what I could gather just a few months ago Saugy was still saying that the samples were doubtful, not positive, and that they followed the standard procedure and there was no cover-up. USADA's letter however is pretty clear on this point: positive and cover-up. Can you confirm this, or is this a matter of relatively recent articles repeating outdated info? Does USADA have evidence against Saugy?

 

[BotanyBay]

maybe you could start your own blog. this is a discussion forum, not a pressure group.

I know the culture here a bit more than you do. You can argue these same points in the main thread, but the thread that RaceRadio started here is an excellent opportunity for those of us that actually care to reference data to actually access that data without people clogging it up with incessant arguments.

Please, people, lets use this as a evidence locker. As it gets released, we can quickly reference it here. Don't dicuss here.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I know the culture here a bit more than you do. You can argue these same points in the main thread, but the thread that RaceRadio started here is an excellent opportunity for those of us that actually care to reference data to actually access that data without people clogging it up with incessant arguments.

Please, people, lets use this as a evidence locker. As it gets released, we can quickly reference it here. Don't dicuss here.

That is his function here.

 

[poupou]

So Sarkozy was pulling strings for Armwrong.
In return for what?

In any case another fascinating exhibit of how far Armstrong was willing to go to get what he wanted. Amazing, this guy's sphere of influence.

Wasn't he also friends with Obama and/or Bush?

Sarkozy is a cyclist fan and a fanboy, so he probably pushed for Lance's comeback for his own personnal satisfaction.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

That is his function here.

my function is to debate on a discussion forum? you bet it is. where else am i supposed to talk about this?

 

[Benotti69]

my function is to debate on a discussion forum? you bet it is. where else am i supposed to talk about this?

uhm to your little action figure lance doll in his liestrong strip.

 

[BotanyBay]

Not to worry, I'm fairly confident that an admin will agree with me and grant my request. Phase II is the more appropriate venue to argue.

 

[Bicycle]

really BPC? just because you dont get get paid to write this garbage doesnt mean others dont...

Quite. This is now a staple of many PR firms - using comments sections on newspaper websites, etc. in an attempt to shape public opinion.