The Froome Files, test data only thread

[sniper]

Pseudoscience in full glory.
Disposable conclusions.
Pointless.

 

[djpbaltimore]

FWIW.

"No external funding was provided or sought in the preparation and completion of this manuscript."

 

[thehog]

Re:

Pseudoscience in full glory.
Disposable conclusions.
Pointless.

Leap of faith of one test. I'll have to read some more over a glass of wine.

Two unique characteristics of this case report are the high GE in relation to O2peak when compared to that reported for other professional cyclists, and the potential for strong performance in hot and humid conditions owing to higher GE and lower submaximal blood lactate versus those presented in ambient conditions. This may in part be explained by efficient thermoregulatory processes as well as by the higher GE recorded during the first half of the exercise bout conducted in HH conditions. The characteristics of a high O2peak and high gross efficiency are critical to sustaining high power outputs. Such traits are a requirement to excel in time trials and uphill stage finishes, two areas where time is usually gained over other stage race competitors.

The TdF takes place in mid-summer and usually experiences high temperatures and humidity on many stages. The ability to maintain performance in the heat may therefore be an important contributing characteristic to performance in this race and is reflected in the athlete’s TdF performances to date.

In summary, these data provide a unique insight into the characteristics required to succeed at the Tour de France, the sport of cycling’s leading event.

 

[bigcog]

Re:

Pseudoscience in full glory.
Disposable conclusions.
Pointless.

Yeah your refutation of that study is superb, mr Phd :lol:

 

[thehog]

Heart Rate

Heart rate was collected continuously via a wireless telemetry system (Polar T34, Polar Electro (UK) Ltd, Warwick, UK). In the submaximal aerobic test, heart rate data from the final 30 s of each stage was used for further analysis, whilst in the maximal test heart rate data collection was incomplete due to a signal drop out mid-way through the test.

Bummer.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Pseudoscience in full glory.
Disposable conclusions.
Pointless.

Yeah your refutation of that study is superb, mr Phd :lol:

Its disappointing they didn't add in the 2007 data as promised. Worthy report though which requires closer analysis. What are your thoughts on the detail?

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Pseudoscience in full glory.
Disposable conclusions.
Pointless.

Yeah your refutation of that study is superb, mr Phd :lol:

Its disappointing they didn't add in the 2007 data as promised. Worthy report though which requires closer analysis. What are your thoughts on the detail?

I'd say it is as good as you're going to get in terms of detail. I'm no sports physiologist so I take it at face value that they know what they are talking about as it has been accepted by a legit journal and peer reviewed presumably. They seem to suggest he has the physiological attributes to perform like he does, particularly the unique combined high GE and V02max and good efficiency in heat. They haven't gone into the earlier data which I think is reasonable as they don't know the methodology/protocol used, if they did it would open them up to criticism.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

FWIW.

"No external funding was provided or sought in the preparation and completion of this manuscript."

Are you HIGH?

seriously maybe I'm missing your point but do you think dude is clean?

I understand politics, No problem, this NO FREAKING WAY. No way.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

Pseudoscience in full glory.
Disposable conclusions.
Pointless.

Yeah your refutation of that study is superb, mr Phd :lol:

signal Dropout.

LMAO believe it.

 

[TeflonDub]

Such intricate details about how the various sensors and instruments were calibrated and read to collect the various data points. Well, apart from one rather key component: "the participant's personal bicycle (Pinarello Dogma F8)". Yes, crank arm length was 175mm and used an oval chain ring. But that's all they did to calibrate the bike itself independently before putting the variable of the participant on top of it?

Without getting too cloak and dagger, from a purely procedural perspective, not doing any validation that all output delivered from this piece of non-lab equipment was derived solely from the cyclist's effort seems like a pretty sloppy miss in experiment design.

 

[TeflonDub]

HR monitor goes AWOL 11 mins in at 154 bpm. Self-reported max: 170. He must have been holding back when he attacked on Ventoux '13 when the leaked data showed max HR of 161. No going in the red for me as I drop Quintana like a hot snot!

The boy seems to emanate some form of electromagnetic interference that confounds any heart rate monitors that anybody else can read. Same thing just happened at Ride London. No luck at all with these technical glitches!

 

[thehog]

Re:

HR monitor goes AWOL 11 mins in at 154 bpm. Self-reported max: 170. He must have been holding back when he attacked on Ventoux '13 when the leaked data showed max HR of 161. No going in the red for me as I drop Quintana like a hot snot!

The boy seems to emanate some form of electromagnetic interference that compounds any heart rate monitors that anybody else can read. Same thing just happened at Ride London. No luck at all with these technical glitches!

Getting beyond just mere coincidence isn't it?

 

[thehog]

Re:

Such intricate details about how the various sensors and instruments were calibrated and read to collect the various data points. Well, apart from one rather key component: "the participant's personal bicycle (Pinarello Dogma F8)". Yes, crank arm length was 175mm and used an oval chain ring. But that's all they did to calibrate the bike itself independently before putting the variable of the participant on top of it?

Without getting too cloak and dagger, from a purely procedural perspective, not doing any validation that all output delivered from this piece of non-lab equipment was derived solely from the cyclist's effort seems like a pretty sloppy miss in experiment design.

GSK have their own jig setup, it's a wonder why they didn't use it?

 

[MikeS369]

Re: Re:

Pseudoscience in full glory.
Disposable conclusions.
Pointless.

Yeah your refutation of that study is superb, mr Phd :lol:

Its disappointing they didn't add in the 2007 data as promised. Worthy report though which requires closer analysis. What are your thoughts on the detail?

I'd say it is as good as you're going to get in terms of detail. I'm no sports physiologist so I take it at face value that they know what they are talking about as it has been accepted by a legit journal and peer reviewed presumably. They seem to suggest he has the physiological attributes to perform like he does, particularly the unique combined high GE and V02max and good efficiency in heat. They haven't gone into the earlier data which I think is reasonable as they don't know the methodology/protocol used, if they did it would open them up to criticism.

No doubt he has some attribute to perform the way he does. He's a super responder just like Armstrong.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

Pseudoscience in full glory.
Disposable conclusions.
Pointless.

1. It's not pseudoscience.
2. Not sure what that means but it tells us a TdF winning cyclist has the physiology of a TdF winning cyclist.
3. Perhaps but it seems expectations are only not met if you were expecting such physiological testing to provide insight into something it cannot.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Pseudoscience in full glory.
Disposable conclusions.
Pointless.

1. It's not pseudoscience.
2. Not sure what that means but it tells us a TdF winning cyclist has the physiology of a TdF winning cyclist.
3. Perhaps but it seems expectations are only not met if you were expecting such physiological testing to provide insight into something it cannot.

4. He'd be good at Bikram Yoga due to his ability to perform well in the heat.

Fact.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

Such intricate details about how the various sensors and instruments were calibrated and read to collect the various data points. Well, apart from one rather key component: "the participant's personal bicycle (Pinarello Dogma F8)". Yes, crank arm length was 175mm and used an oval chain ring. But that's all they did to calibrate the bike itself independently before putting the variable of the participant on top of it?

There is no need to "calibrate" the bicycle. The ergometer onto which it was fitted is what requires calibration, which is what they reported doing. Neither crank length nor chainring type is relevant for this manner in which this ergometer records data nor for how it delivers the preprogrammed power demand.

 

[TeflonDub]

Re: Re:

Such intricate details about how the various sensors and instruments were calibrated and read to collect the various data points. Well, apart from one rather key component: "the participant's personal bicycle (Pinarello Dogma F8)". Yes, crank arm length was 175mm and used an oval chain ring. But that's all they did to calibrate the bike itself independently before putting the variable of the participant on top of it?

There is no need to "calibrate" the bicycle. The ergometer onto which it was fitted is what requires calibration, which is what they reported doing. Neither crank length nor chainring type is relevant for this manner in which this ergometer records data nor for how it delivers the preprogrammed power demand.

Genuine question: how would this detect if the 525W was 485W from Froome + 40W from a motor?

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

HR monitor goes AWOL 11 mins in at 154 bpm. Self-reported max: 170. He must have been holding back when he attacked on Ventoux '13 when the leaked data showed max HR of 161. No going in the red for me as I drop Quintana like a hot snot!

The boy seems to emanate some form of electromagnetic interference that confounds any heart rate monitors that anybody else can read. Same thing just happened at Ride London. No luck at all with these technical glitches!

None of you have ever had HR monitor drop its signal? This is hardly an unusual occurrence.

 

[TeflonDub]

Re: Re:

HR monitor goes AWOL 11 mins in at 154 bpm. Self-reported max: 170. He must have been holding back when he attacked on Ventoux '13 when the leaked data showed max HR of 161. No going in the red for me as I drop Quintana like a hot snot!

The boy seems to emanate some form of electromagnetic interference that confounds any heart rate monitors that anybody else can read. Same thing just happened at Ride London. No luck at all with these technical glitches!

None of you have ever had HR monitor drop its signal? This is hardly an unusual occurrence.

Froome going to a lab to have his physiological data measured is most definitely an unusual occurrence. I am surprised they didn't abandon and start over after a recovery period.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

HR monitor goes AWOL 11 mins in at 154 bpm. Self-reported max: 170. He must have been holding back when he attacked on Ventoux '13 when the leaked data showed max HR of 161. No going in the red for me as I drop Quintana like a hot snot!

The boy seems to emanate some form of electromagnetic interference that confounds any heart rate monitors that anybody else can read. Same thing just happened at Ride London. No luck at all with these technical glitches!

None of you have ever had HR monitor drop its signal? This is hardly an unusual occurrence.

During a controlled test? No, never.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

Genuine question: how would this detect if the 525W was 485W from Froome + 40W from a motor?

It can't directly (since the only test for a motor is to find the motor) but an extra 40W from an external source would likely result in a significantly elevated reported GE rather than it being within the normal range (and it was within the normal range).

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

None of you have ever had HR monitor drop its signal? This is hardly an unusual occurrence.

During a controlled test? No, never.

So that's you. I've seen it happen many times.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

Froome going to a lab to have his physiological data measured is most definitely an unusual occurrence. I am surprised they didn't abandon and start over after a recovery period.

HR response is of only minor significance/interest, power and gas exchange data are what matters so I'd see no reason to abandon such a test just because a HR signal has dropped out. If the other signals had been compromised, for sure then abandon and reschedule.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Once again, such physiological testing will never answer the doping status question. If people have suggested it does/might, well they are wrong and if anyone had such expectations it would, then let's reset them.