The fun begins - SCA now asking for money back...

[Page Mill Masochist]

I think the likeliest explanation for dropping of the Fed case is that the Obama administration did not want to take on Cancer Jesus, and his sponsors and his supporters and their PR machine, prior to what was expected to be a close election.

Once the election is past, it may be a different story, no matter who wins Especially now that CJ has been transformed, miraculously, into an ordinary mortal, sans sponsors, sans followers, sans PR machine, and soon, sans cancer charity shield. All that will remain is a thugish, washed up fraudster who left a great deal of fraud and bad feeling in his wake, a social pariah about whom the public feels equal parts pity and resentment. Many of them will be demanding redress.

Guessing you are right.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Whatever lance gets taken for it wont eat into his vast fortune, hes doen better out of cycling than anyone before and anyone down, contador and co have made pennys compared to this lad.

Cash flow isnt an issue your given time to come up with the cash and im sure he has some pretty liquid assets lying around.

The most serious charge he will face will be likely chargers for purging himself, something which may stop him from ever telling the truth.

Have you noticed how much golf Tiger Woods has been playing lately? No matter how much money you make, your expenses always grow to fill up (or shrink as the case may be) the cash flow. Suddenly, once the sponsorship cash dries up, he now has to play for dough. Makes one wonder if the collapse in the Ryder cup may not have been legitimate, but that's another subject entirely.

my point is I disagree, his vast fortune can turn to dust rather quickly. I am sort of hoping it is rather slowly, reminds of Franz Kafka's 'The Harrow' ....ughhh....gruesome....

 

[Benotti69]

I think the likeliest explanation for dropping of the Fed case is that the Obama administration did not want to take on Cancer Jesus, and his sponsors and his supporters and their PR machine, prior to what was expected to be a close election.

Once the election is past, it may be a different story, no matter who wins Especially now that CJ has been transformed, miraculously, into an ordinary mortal, sans sponsors, sans followers, sans PR machine, and soon, sans cancer charity shield. All that will remain is a thugish, washed up fraudster who left a great deal of fraud and bad feeling in his wake, a social pariah about whom the public feels equal parts pity and resentment. Many of them will be demanding redress.

+1

I am hoping the feds reopen the case and a slew of civil cases ensue.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Sorry, bozo. Armstrong cannot appeal to CAS.

I'm not sure if that's correct.

Section 13.1:

13.1 Decisions Subject to Appeal Decisions made under the Code or rules adopted pursuant to the Code may be appealed as set forth
below in Articles 13.2 through 13.4 or as otherwise provided in the Code. Such decisions shall remain in effect while under appeal unless the appellate body orders otherwise. Before an appeal is commenced, any post-decision review provided in the Anti-Doping Organization's rules must be exhausted, provided that such review respects the principles set forth in Article 13.2.2 below (except as provided in Article 13.1.1).

Note the underlined statement. Is Armstrong's decision to waive his right to a hearing mean he did not exhaust "any post-decision review provided in the Anti-Doping Organization's rules", and thus cannot commence appeal?

Note also 13.1.1, which exempts WADA from having "exhaust other remedies":

Where WADA has a right to appeal under Article 13 and no other party has appealed a final decision within the Anti-Doping
Organization’s process, WADA may appeal such decision directly to CAS without having to exhaust other remedies in the Anti-Doping Organization process.

However, there is 13.2:

A decision that an anti-doping rule violation was committed, a decision imposing Consequences for an anti-doping rule violation, or a decision that no antidoping rule violation was committed; a decision that an anti-doping rule violation proceeding cannot go forward for procedural reasons (including, for example, prescription); a decision under Article 10.10.2 (Violation of the Prohibition of Participation during Ineligibility); a decision that an Anti-Doping Organization lacks jurisdiction to rule on an alleged anti-doping rule violation or its Consequences; a decision by an Anti-Doping Organization not to bring forward an Adverse Analytical Finding or an Atypical Finding as an anti-doping rule violation, or a decision
not to go forward with an anti-doping rule violation after an investigation under Article 7.4; and a decision to impose a Provisional Suspension as a result of a Provisional Hearing or in violation of Article 7.5, may be appealed exclusively as provided in this Article 13.2.

But 13.2.3 seems to make it clear that the Athlete has a right to appeal to CAS:

13.2.3 Persons Entitled to Appeal
In cases under Article 13.2.1 [Appeals Involving International-Level Athletes], the following parties shall have the right to appeal to CAS: (a) the Athlete or other Person who is the subject of the decision being appealed; (b) the other party to the case in which the decision was rendered; (c) the relevant International Federation; (d) the National
Anti-Doping Organization of the Person’s country of residence or countries where the Person is a national or license holder; (e) the
International Olympic Committee or International Paralympic Committee, as
applicable, where the decision may have an effect in relation to the Olympic Games or Paralympic Games, including decisions affecting eligibility for the Olympic Games or Paralympic Games; and (f) WADA.

 

[BikeCentric]

I am neither a lawyer nor a huge fan of lawyers but I would respectfully request that those of you doing the lawyer bashing please stop. Lawyers are a necessary part of a functioning Democracy and that is simply reality. Surely there do exist seedy lawyers just as there are seedy people in every profession on the planet, so again please stop.

 

[Maxiton]

Guessing you are right.

His lawyers were playing it as lawyers would, by insisting he not incriminate himself. But his silence in this case is what destroyed him, and what will very likely lead to indictment. His only hope was to retain the affections and sympathies of his sponsors, and of the masses. It would have been counter-intuitive for them, but his lawyers should have recommended cooperation and a deal with USADA as the less risky strategy. Better lawyers would have.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I am neither a lawyer nor a huge fan of lawyers but I would respectfully request that those of you doing the lawyer bashing please stop. Lawyers are a necessary part of a functioning Democracy and that is simply reality. Surely there do exist seedy lawyers just as there are seedy people in every profession on the planet, so again please stop.

Aw c'mon, lawyer bashing is a traditional pastime, especially in the English speaking world. It takes on a whole extra dimension here because the Wookie keeps reminding everyone that he's gonna be one.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

You started by saying there is nothing seedy in the law profession, then ended with a call to attorneys to "stay thirsty", which immediately made me think of thirsty, blood-sucking insects. You accidentally affirmed the negative stereotype of lawyers as parasites.

The phrase usage at the end was intentional...it was no accident at all...

 

[ChewbaccaD]

This is the same parasite profession were responsible for hounding Betsy and Emma. They leave their morals at home when leaving for the office,, how any lawyer would be or acting can play holier than thou iin this situation is somewhat beyond me! They were the weapon that did Armstrongs enforcement of omerta.

 

[86TDFWinner]

BBC Sport interview with the lawyers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20029617

Only $7.5 m so So Lance only has to sell one house of several to pay that if that is what he decides
Less than one years sponsorship money, so hardly a killer.

He still has one ball left they can take from him if he tries to file for bankruptcy.

 

[Racelap]

Señor Pelota is destined to end up a greeter at a second or third tier Vegas casino. Maybe they'll make him wear a speedo.

 

[BikeCentric]

Aw c'mon, lawyer bashing is a traditional pastime, especially in the English speaking world. It takes on a whole extra dimension here because the Wookie keeps reminding everyone that he's gonna be one.

LOL I guess that's true. Wasn't it Henry the Eighth who said "the first thing we do is kill all the lawyers?"

But anyway, the legal popcorn show with Armstrong is just getting started. I have a hard time seeing how SCA does NOT get their money back given that Pharmstrong never even won those races and also perjured himself repeatedly in testimony during the case.

But then again, I'm neither a lawyer nor have I played one on TV!

 

[webvan]

CN article on SCA here : http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sca-to-seek-dollar-7-5m-from-lance-armstrong

Armstrong took the case to arbitration, where despite testimony from individuals such as Betsy and Frankie Andreu, supporting the assertions in the book that Armstrong doped, the two parties settled out of court, with SCA Promotions having to pay the bonus plus $2.5m in legal fees and interest because the wording of the contract held them to payment as long as Armstrong was the winner of the Tours.

Now that this is no longer the case, the company is seeking to reverse the outcome.

Nice and simple, eh !

 

[babastooey]

I can think of few other logical explanations for such stupidity. If you aren't on drugs, perhaps there is an explanationof a medical nature. Wait...........I think I know. You are the victim of no child left behind. Somehow they left you in the morass of non-critical thinking.

I can think of no reason to use such words. Perhaps it is because I don't understand why someone would want to use the anonymous nature of message boards to spew a little more venom than usual because one can get away with it. I prefer message boards to be used for constructive discussions where people can be respected for their opinions, I guess I am too much of an optimist.

If you must know, No Child Left Behind was passed after I had graduated from college. No drugs taken at all except for Advil, which thanks to this useless excuse for a health care system is pretty much the only medical coverage I can afford.

If you want to know, I don't think Lance deserves the money. I think he cheated. However, I don't think it is far fetched for me to say that a contract that was proven to be poorly worded in a previous case will prove again to be poorly worded, and a downfall for SCA again. In other words, I am not getting my hopes up in order to be let down. Maybe I'm wrong, but its only an opinion. Why don't we wait until the court figures it out.

BTW, my status as an officer or the court in no way obligates me to be nice to stupid ****ers. Say hello to Fabani and Herman for me. Still, have a nice day.

I have no idea who Fabani and Herman are. However, there has been some talk on this forum disparaging lawyers. This is unfair, however, it is perhaps that some are more rude and obnoxious as compared to others. I refer to no one in particular, of course. I sleep well at night knowing the profession is associated with high standards of ethics and behavior. Mostly.

-----

I decided to look up the name Fabani on this message board. The closest thing I could find was Mark Fabiani, who is I believe one of Lance's lawyers? I have never heard of him. Does this mean you think I am some sort of Lance Armstrong groupie? Have you ever read one of my posts outside of this thread? For the record, I am proud to say that I am so anti-doping that I think that anyone who has had anything to do with using drugs to be completely out of the sport. This includes Vaughters and Millar and all of those who doped and then now claim to not only be against it, but militantly against it. In a world where testing reveals nothing, we cannot have anyone who was faced with the decision to dope or quit and then chose the dope. How can the sport be pure otherwise? I guess I would cut a little slack to someone like Zabriskie who seems to have been manipulated into it by Bruyneel. However, all of these guys had the chance while the scandal was happening to raise their voice and stop it, and none of them did. Even when they left USPS they went on to teams where the cheating continued (CSC, Phonak, etc.). Sure, they give excuses about not wanting to upset apple carts and to not want to cause people to lose their jobs, but the fact of the matter is that this means that stopping doping wasn't an important thing in their lives. Only when most of them were out the door or banned for life or faced with a huge penalty hanging over their necks did they fess up.

I know this doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand, but since this guy doesn't read my posts outside this thread, he needs to know where I am coming from.

PS - Fausto Coppi used performance enhancing drugs too. Get a new hero.

 

[Lukenwolf]

Ethics and lawyers are two words that don't belong in the same sentence

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I can think of no reason to use such words. Perhaps it is because I don't understand why someone would want to use the anonymous nature of message boards to spew a little more venom than usual because one can get away with it. I prefer message boards to be used for constructive discussions where people can be respected for their opinions, I guess I am too much of an optimist.

If you must know, No Child Left Behind was passed after I had graduated from college. No drugs taken at all except for Advil, which thanks to this useless excuse for a health care system is pretty much the only medical coverage I can afford.

If you want to know, I don't think Lance deserves the money. I think he cheated. However, I don't think it is far fetched for me to say that a contract that was proven to be poorly worded in a previous case will prove again to be poorly worded, and a downfall for SCA again. In other words, I am not getting my hopes up in order to be let down. Maybe I'm wrong, but its only an opinion. Why don't we wait until the court figures it out.



I have no idea who Fabiani and Herman are. However, there has been some talk on this forum disparaging lawyers. This is unfair, however, it is perhaps that some are more rude and obnoxious as compared to others. I refer to no one in particular, of course. I sleep well at night knowing the profession is associated with high standards of ethics and behavior. Mostly.

Nah, you're just a noob. But let me, as an ambassador to the intertubes, welcome you to the fray. Keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times, and keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars!
However, I suspect this isn't really your first rodeo. (mixed metaphors IN DA' HOUSE!!!!), so I don't really need to tell you all this. There is much transparency in your fishing. The Trollkraft is weak with this one.

 

[purcell]

Saturday, a friend of my made a very valid argument that Armstrong probably has significant funds "offshore" that would be difficult for US courts to access.

Yes, he will probably need to sell tangible assets such as real estate and the jet, and probably at a loss.

However, the simple fact is that he will never be poor, or even middle-class.

Read this again ...

http://english.gazzetta.it/More_spo...nk-accounts-fake-contracts-912946609743.shtml

 

[babastooey]

Nah, you're just a noob. But let me, as an ambassador to the intertubes, welcome you to the fray. Keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times, and keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars!

Thanks.

However, I suspect this isn't really your first rodeo. (mixed metaphors IN DA' HOUSE!!!!), so I don't really need to tell you all this. There is much transparency in your fishing. The Trollkraft is weak with this one.

If you mean to say I have been on other message boards, you are right. There are a few about ice hockey. And yes, you meet the same sort of people there too. It isn't confined to one place.

If you think I have had an account on this board before, you would be wrong. If you name the person you think I am supposed to be, there is a good chance that I wouldn't even know who it is. I barely read this forum before a few months ago.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Thanks.




If you mean to say I have been on other message boards, you are right. There are a few about ice hockey. And yes, you meet the same sort of people there too. It isn't confined to one place.

If you think I have had an account on this board before, you would be wrong. If you name the person you think I am supposed to be, there is a good chance that I wouldn't even know who it is. I barely read this forum before a few months ago.

Interesting tale my sibling.

 

[wannab]

Read this again ...

http://english.gazzetta.it/More_spo...nk-accounts-fake-contracts-912946609743.shtml

this is huge! pro sports are so nice really nice reflection of society .. money is destroying everything

 

[purcell]

this is huge! pro sports are so nice really nice reflection of society .. money is destroying everything

There is a reason that many of us have been saying for years that is about more than whether Armstrong doped. That much was always pretty much self evident.

This is about corruption in the UCI and IOC, this is about Tax evasion, drug trafficking and money laundering.

 

[QuickStepper]

Sry mate your wrong, read the UCI decision...



both WADA and Armstrong can go to CAS. The fact that Armstrong didn't go to USADA arbitration doesn't change any of that. USADA invited armstrong to explain himself, he didn't. But the USADA decision only became a formal decision when UCI rattified it today. Hence it is only now up for arbitration by CAS.

So no there is no definite answer yet.

Hey Skiz:

The UCI says a lot of ish that just makes no sense. We all pounded the argument about the WADA rules and appeals to death over the course of several months. UCI can now write whatever they want about their decision being "subject" to various appellate rights, but such a statement confers no appellate jurisdiction in favor of anyone. The fact of the matter is that once Armstrong decided to let the matter go by way of default, he lost his right to appeal. Period. End of story. Cut, print. Done. Kaput. Finito. Adios, sayonara, shalom haverim.

Armstrong is personally finished and cannot contest the ruling. UCI or WADA were the only ones that could contest it as it pertains to Armstrong. Read the WADA Rules. Read the USADA Rules. Read the AAA Commercial Arbitration Rules that would have governed had their been a hearing. No appeal for you.

 

[blackcat]

You can scratch one Gulfstream G-IV jet from the inventory of Armstrong's saleable assets.

According to Race Radio, who is a proven trusted source of LA information, the symbol of opulence, power, prestige and conspicuous consumption was sold.

It is still registered in the name of Mellow Johnnys Aviation LLCwhich either means tardiness on the recording of a registration transfer or Armstrong off loaded ownership of the aircraft by selling the company complete with the Gulfstream as its asset.

or the CIA are happy keeping that "registration" for their rendition program. Thanks Mellow Johnny's.

Like Han Solo's Millennium Falcon, we know it was good for smuggling is bloodbags from Austin.

 

[Pain Dane]

A real test for Armstrong's lawyers

His lawyers were playing it as lawyers would, by insisting he not incriminate himself. But his silence in this case is what destroyed him, and what will very likely lead to indictment. His only hope was to retain the affections and sympathies of his sponsors, and of the masses. It would have been counter-intuitive for them, but his lawyers should have recommended cooperation and a deal with USADA as the less risky strategy. Better lawyers would have.

I agree that Herman and Breen have utterly mismanaged LA's affairs. I looked them up. Looks like Herman and Breen are from a small Austin lawfirm that lists "personal injury" as one of their main specialties. They are ambulance chasers.

Breen is a graduate of the South Texas School of Law: a bottom tier "diploma mill" law school. They have parlayed their representation of LA into personal fame, but with shocking results for their client. Apparently LA's lack of a high school education left him unable to recognize the difference between ethical, well educated lawyers and sleezy pozers and self promoters.

Now the real test begins... Herman and Breen represented LA in the SCA under a "contingency fee" like most personal injury lawyers in the States. That means that they are only supposed to receive a fee if they win. When LA settled, he had to pay Herman and Breen at least a third of his settlement. In other words, Herman and Breen received at least $2,5m of the SCA settlement. Now the real test of their loyalty. When LA realizes that the has to pay the $7,5m back, do you think he will turn to Herman and Breen and say "You guys have been so loyal to me, it is my turn and I will be loyal to you and pay your share of the settlement."

Or will Herman and Breen get to see the true LA, the one that Landis and Hamilton know so well. I am betting the later.

Wonder if they will feel so great defending a cheat, when that same cheat is asking them to pay back over a $mill to save his saddle sores.

Dane

 

[babastooey]

I know it is far fetched, but let's go with the following hypothetical:

SCA sues Lance and wins. Lance exhausts his appeals and pays back the money.

Then, sometime in the future (20+ years from now), another historical revision hits cycling and it is decided to change results again, to leave the results as they were when they were originally contested, containing notation that the era was marred by doping scandals. Or, in bizarre fashion, doping in cycling becomes the norm as opposed to something disdained, and the records are restored. Or whatever other far fetched reason you can think of.

Would Lance be entitled to sue SCA back and get the money back?

It does seem weird to think these thoughts, however, if cycling history is fluid and can be manipulated, revised, and changed like an old George Lucas movie, it gets me thinking...