The Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping Thread

[Zinoviev Letter]

It's worth remembering that if almost any other rider at Sky managed to create so many public relations disasters in a few months, they would be out the door so fast their feet wouldn't touch the ground. Moscon is protected by his talent. He's arguably the number 2 rider on the team, unquestionably one of the most important four or five. I would be surprised if Sky jettison him almost no matter what he does. That's not to single out Sky particularly, the same incentives would exist for any other team. I'd say their PR people reflexively flinch whenever they hear his name at this point though.

He hasn't had a new contract announced yet, has he?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Wow, I didn't realize how many posters on here were so all-knowing and all-wise. I guess it is easier to judge someone without even an investigation. Is Reichenbach innocent in all of this? Who knows/ We may never know but let's tar and feather Moscon anyway and hang him on a stake. Not only is that line of thought sad but it is entirely stupid. Let's keep in mind, out on the road stuff happens. Lots of stuff that no one ever hears about. Lot of words are exchanged that no one ever hears about. Moscon is now portrayed as this huge racist. Wonder if anyone else who rides could be classified as a racist? Who knows? Perhaps Reichenbach is simply too thin-skinned? Maybe he needs to grow a pair. Doubt Moscon is the only who ever uttered anything derogatory in a race. lol And I highly doubt Moscon is the only who ever had sticky fingers, cold fingers or any other kind of fingers in a race. What's that old saying? Oh yeah, "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me".

This kind of drivel borders on the obscene.

 

[Angliru]

Wow, I didn't realize how many posters on here were so all-knowing and all-wise. I guess it is easier to judge someone without even an investigation. Is Reichenbach innocent in all of this? Who knows/ We may never know but let's tar and feather Moscon anyway and hang him on a stake. Not only is that line of thought sad but it is entirely stupid. Let's keep in mind, out on the road stuff happens. Lots of stuff that no one ever hears about. Lot of words are exchanged that no one ever hears about. Moscon is now portrayed as this huge racist. Wonder if anyone else who rides could be classified as a racist? Who knows? Perhaps Reichenbach is simply too thin-skinned? Maybe he needs to grow a pair. Doubt Moscon is the only who ever uttered anything derogatory in a race. lol And I highly doubt Moscon is the only who ever had sticky fingers, cold fingers or any other kind of fingers in a race. What's that old saying? Oh yeah, "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me".

The fact that you quote a children's nursery rhyme to end your post is quite fitting.

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

apart of your obvious problems with Peter Sagan ... he is my favorite cyclist and I am not saying what he did to Max Vantomme (thanks, the name escaped me) was right - and yes Sagan should have been punished for that (if he wasn't, I can't recall), no question .... what I wanted to point out was, that the Sagan/Vantomme incident was within what I would call the red line of cycling (fighting for a position) - to be sanctioned of course, but clearly with no intend to harm the other person, just a bit of fighting for a better position in a reckless way ... the intend to injure someone is clearly passing the red line

Of course, Sagan has not been punished for that accident. Until it's a personality like Cavendish as victim, he's above the law. Your red line is very lax. Her Highness was way too far from the lead on the Kemmel when the decisive move was to start and since he thinks it's his natural right to be in the front, all the guys that separate him from the lead needs to be bodychecked to the ditch. It was just more than a reckless fight to keep position. By that time several worshippers found a way to claim it was unintentional.

And I keep saying that if it's true that Moscon wished to take a revenge for what happen back in April, I can no longer defend him. Unlike some might think I can also change my mind and am ... human. Theonly thought is so scary that I would want to even figure it out and just hope it's not true. It would be too dramatic for the sport.

 

[kingjr]

Things will get really interesting if some FDJ rider tries to take "revenge" on the road.

 

[CyclingDaddy55]

Wow, I didn't realize how many posters on here were so all-knowing and all-wise. I guess it is easier to judge someone without even an investigation. Is Reichenbach innocent in all of this? Who knows/ We may never know but let's tar and feather Moscon anyway and hang him on a stake. Not only is that line of thought sad but it is entirely stupid. Let's keep in mind, out on the road stuff happens. Lots of stuff that no one ever hears about. Lot of words are exchanged that no one ever hears about. Moscon is now portrayed as this huge racist. Wonder if anyone else who rides could be classified as a racist? Who knows? Perhaps Reichenbach is simply too thin-skinned? Maybe he needs to grow a pair. Doubt Moscon is the only who ever uttered anything derogatory in a race. lol And I highly doubt Moscon is the only who ever had sticky fingers, cold fingers or any other kind of fingers in a race. What's that old saying? Oh yeah, "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me".

This kind of drivel borders on the obscene.

Surprised you even know how to spell the word drivel. lol You can't even respond with anything more intelligent than that. You must be living in a fantasy world to think Moscon is the only one who has ever said or done anything on the road.

 

[PeterB]

Re: Re:

Of course, Sagan has not been punished for that accident. Until it's a personality like Cavendish as victim, he's above the law. Your red line is very lax. Her Highness was way too far from the lead on the Kemmel when the decisive move was to start and since he thinks it's his natural right to be in the front, all the guys that separate him from the lead needs to be bodychecked to the ditch. It was just more than a reckless fight to keep position. By that time several worshippers found a way to claim it was unintentional.

And I keep saying that if it's true that Moscon wished to take a revenge for what happen back in April, I can no longer defend him. Unlike some might think I can also change my mind and am ... human. Theonly thought is so scary that I would want to even figure it out and just hope it's not true. It would be too dramatic for the sport.

This is what fighting for positions looks like, this time with Sagan on the receiving end: http://tiz-cycling.racing/video/tour-de-france-2016-stage-03-full-stage/ (watch from 2:58:10)

There are a lot of these shoulders and elbows between riders during races, most of which we do not get to see. Concerning Moscon, he might have been just unlucky that the other rider affected was someone with whom he had some "history", so even if there could have been no connection to the Reza incident, it is so easy to see it in this one. Really curious what the other riders say they saw.

 

[saganftw]

gotta start new thread "jumping off gianni moscon bandwagon thread" :lol:

btw i bet reichenbach did something to anger moscon,like a smile to his face or telling him "grab the car buddy", cant wait what the witnesses has to say about this

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Wow, I didn't realize how many posters on here were so all-knowing and all-wise. I guess it is easier to judge someone without even an investigation. Is Reichenbach innocent in all of this? Who knows/ We may never know but let's tar and feather Moscon anyway and hang him on a stake. Not only is that line of thought sad but it is entirely stupid. Let's keep in mind, out on the road stuff happens. Lots of stuff that no one ever hears about. Lot of words are exchanged that no one ever hears about. Moscon is now portrayed as this huge racist. Wonder if anyone else who rides could be classified as a racist? Who knows? Perhaps Reichenbach is simply too thin-skinned? Maybe he needs to grow a pair. Doubt Moscon is the only who ever uttered anything derogatory in a race. lol And I highly doubt Moscon is the only who ever had sticky fingers, cold fingers or any other kind of fingers in a race. What's that old saying? Oh yeah, "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me".

This kind of drivel borders on the obscene.

Surprised you even know how to spell the word drivel. lol You can't even respond with anything more intelligent than that. You must be living in a fantasy world to think Moscon is the only one who has ever said or done anything on the road.

I realise that your semi-literacy must make it very difficult to interact with others on a text based forum, so I don't wish to be gratuitously unkind, but nobody has ever suggested that Moscon "is the only one who has ever said or done anything on the road".

There are a number of riders who have been revealed as racists because their decision to racially abuse a colleague at work has been publicly revealed. Moscon is the most recent, but not the only one. There are also a number of riders who have been expelled from races for cheating in the same manner as Moscon. There are also a number of riders who have been accused of deliberately causing other riders to crash. What all of these things have in common, although varying with the degree of seriousness of the offence involved and the credibility of the allegation, is that they lower the opinion of the perpetrator held by most observers. Or at least most reasonable observers, the kind who think that actions like racially abusing a colleague at work are the actions of a scumbag.

 

[hazaran]

Do we have a video yet or is this just pages upon pages of idle speculation? When you enter a race and crash, the first, second and third assumption is that 1) *** happens and 2) no one owes you anything, don't race bikes when you don't want to crash, you take your competitors as they are and when one of them is a terrible descender and hits the deck taking you with them, that is still not his fault.

Moscon would pretty much have to throw a bottle straight into Reichenbachs spokes to consider it some sort of premeditated attack.

 

[yaco]

One can only guess it's being investigated by the UCI - Time will tell.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Do we have a video yet or is this just pages upon pages of idle speculation? When you enter a race and crash, the first, second and third assumption is that 1) **** happens and 2) no one owes you anything, don't race bikes when you don't want to crash, you take your competitors as they are and when one of them is a terrible descender and hits the deck taking you with them, that is still not his fault.

Moscon would pretty much have to throw a bottle straight into Reichenbachs spokes to consider it some sort of premeditated attack.

As far as I know there is no video. Reichenbach stated there were witnesses. Moscon stated that Reichenbach took both hands off of his bars, that was why he crashed and that he had nothing to do with it.

 

[hazaran]

Re:

One can only guess it's being investigated by the UCI - Time will tell.

Well I guess if the UCI is on the case we can expect a swift, decisive, reasonable, fair, accomodating, grounded in their statutes elaborate response :lol:

I guess in 2020 we'll find their judgement as a mysterious PDF on some dark corner of the UCI website, and it will be an image of a dense Swiss French legal treatise

 

[Angliru]

Wow, I didn't realize how many posters on here were so all-knowing and all-wise. I guess it is easier to judge someone without even an investigation. Is Reichenbach innocent in all of this? Who knows/ We may never know but let's tar and feather Moscon anyway and hang him on a stake. Not only is that line of thought sad but it is entirely stupid. Let's keep in mind, out on the road stuff happens. Lots of stuff that no one ever hears about. Lot of words are exchanged that no one ever hears about. Moscon is now portrayed as this huge racist. Wonder if anyone else who rides could be classified as a racist? Who knows? Perhaps Reichenbach is simply too thin-skinned? Maybe he needs to grow a pair. Doubt Moscon is the only who ever uttered anything derogatory in a race. lol And I highly doubt Moscon is the only who ever had sticky fingers, cold fingers or any other kind of fingers in a race. What's that old saying? Oh yeah, "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me".

The fact that you quote a children's nursery rhyme to end your post is quite fitting.

I had to make it that way so you could grasp the concept. So, did you misplace your crayons or did Mommy decide to let you play with the computer? lol

Your concept of stone age logic just seemed way to ridiculous to be taken seriously. Forgive me for mistakenly giving you the benefit of the doubt. I'll know better next time.

 

[Volderke]

Wow, I didn't realize how many posters on here were so all-knowing and all-wise.

I guess it is easier to judge someone without even an investigation.

Perhaps Reichenbach is simply too thin-skinned? Maybe he needs to grow a pair.

lol

The moment you can make a contradicting dialogue out of one single not-very coherent post, is the moment I lol.
Besides being thin-skinned, I may suggest Reichenbach is thin-elbowed, too, as he broke one in the incident.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Re: Re:

Are there any precedents in cycling for athletes getting criminal charges for assault while in competition? In baseball, hockey, football, there are full-on brawls between teams, which are unnecessary and illegal violence, but nothing happens because it's considered part of the sport. Nobody wants to press charges.

Footballer jailed for 3 months for on-field head butt.

 

[jonas334455]

In 2014 a amateur-cyclist died in Switzerland during a race around the 1.HC race of Gippingen (GP Kanton Aargau). His fall was caused by another cyclist (not intentionally) who was said to race totally carelessly. Last fall he was sentenced to one year in prison (on probation) and a fine of 2000 Swiss francs.

Link in German:
https://www.limmattalerzeitung.ch/aargau/zurzach/toedlicher-unfall-gericht-spricht-velofahrer-der-fahrlaessigen-toetung-schuldig-130738951

 

[franic]

I'm amazed by the granitic conclusions people can reach without having seen a single footage of the crash. Either ways (i.e. Moscon is a saint vs Moscon is a devil), it seems a little bit premature to judges, isn't it?

 

[rick james]

Hanged drawn and quartered

 

[hrotha]

That Moscon is an a-hole is well established at this point, regardless of whether or not Reichenbach is right about what happened the other day.

 

[del1962]

From what we know about this incident it is difficult to see why Reichenbach made it up, Sky would be well advised not to renew Moscon's contract,

 

[mrhender]

I haven't been following this closely, but read somewhere else that Reichenbach was the first to sound the alarm on the racist thing.
Can anyone confirm this?

If that is indeed the case, then perhaps Moscon was paying him back (peloton is a small world).
Or perhaps Reichenbach has some issue with Moscon and is willing to lie (stretch the truth) to get him down..

All speculation, but sure seems a lot of smoke recently. Though it doesnt have to be a bonfire (yet)?

 

[franic]

Re:

From what we know about this incident it is difficult to see why Reichenbach made it up, Sky would be well advised not to renew Moscon's contract,

Many teams would love that

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I haven't been following this closely, but read somewhere else that Reichenbach was the first to sound the alarm on the racist thing.
Can anyone confirm this?

Reichenbach was the first to draw attention to the incident on twitter, he posted something along the lines of "I can't believe there are still riders in the peloton that believe racist insults are okay, you bring shame to our sport" without naming names. Then pics emerged and it became clear it must've been Moscon.

 

[Tonton]

It's too early to jump to conclusions. All we know, right now, is that a crash happened and as a result, SR has a broken elbow and a broken pelvis (according to l'Equipe). We know about the tweet: it happened. Was the accident provoked by Moscon? Was it deliberate? Was the tweet the motive (old beef) or did something happen just before the accident? We'll see what the witnesses say. If some footage surfaces. As far as the motive is concerned, we'll never know. I doubt that Seb would make this story up. Moscon is a douch', but we can't jump to conclusions.

IF it was deliberate, we're talking about a crime here. That's serious stuff. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. We'll know a lot more soon enough.