The Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping Thread

[glassmoon]

ohh, such drama at the end of the season.
/grabs popcorn/

 

[Blanco]

Yes. Thereby they could maintain a good image, pretend they are fighting against racism and close the case as quickly as possible at the detriment of truth. They would have much less benefit in trying to restore the honour of their rider.

Portal said the word Moson used was very very bad ...
I have heard ..unverified... what that word was ...and it is not a simple heat of the moment argument word

"Gianni knows that there is no excuse for his behaviour and that any repeat will result in termination of his contract." was the SKY line...It was serious ...serious enough for an intelliegnt young man in the 21st century to know what the word meant and for SKY to threaten dismissal of one of their stars if repeated

Serious enough for Reichenbach to write that tweet

But if no one wants to call a spade a spade here then .....

I would and most people have forgotten this by next year and everyone would when Moscon wins Paris Roubaix or the Tour but now it looks like its never going away if Moscon deliberately caused Reichenbach to crash

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/reichenbach-files-complaints-against-moscon-with-police-and-uci/

he was already going to carry the racist accident with him at every race he´ll compete until his career ends, noone will forget that. the Reichenbach crash will add to that.

Crash will not only "add to that". The crash thing is way, way worse then that racist incident!

 

[RedheadDane]

I still don't understand why Reichenbach thinks Moscons actions, whether deliberate or not, had anything to do with what happened way back in April.
Honestly, Moscon's main problem seems to be that he doesn't quite understand the long-term, or even immediate, cause of his actions. Yet he waited several months for the "right" moment to get revenge on Reichenbach?
Reichenbach was totally right in calling out Moscon for his behaviour towards Reza, especially because that might be exactly what Moscon needed in order to - in time - understand why such behaviour is wrong. Also interesting that while Moscon obviously accepted that what he did was wrong, and apologised to Reza, he didn't seem to realise that what he said was racist...
Reichenbach might also be right that Moscon deliberately caused him to crash.
Those two things aren't necessarily connected.

 

[Angliru]

He denied it and yet his team, after doing their own investigation, which I'm assuming was the time between when the incident happened and he was allowed to continue to compete in the Tour de Romandie, decided that a 6 week suspension for racially abusing a fellow rider was appropriate as did the UCI who felt it unnecessary to to override Sky's decision on his punishment. I would say it's quite clear who is right and who is wrong.

When Sky and the UCI speak, they are always right, aren't they?

I never said that. Just presenting the circumstances surrounding what decisions were made. Moscon has had multiple chances to give his version of the incident but has been less than forthcoming.

 

[fauniera]

Re:

I still don't understand why Reichenbach thinks Moscons actions, whether deliberate or not, had anything to do with what happened way back in April.

You can't be serious.

 

[loge1884]

Re:

I still don't understand why Reichenbach thinks Moscons actions, whether deliberate or not, had anything to do with what happened way back in April. (...)
Reichenbach might also be right that Moscon deliberately caused him to crash.
Those two things aren't necessarily connected.

honestly there must be some reasoning (however sick) why rider A would deliberately cause injuries of fellow rider B .... however whether or not the incidents are connected shouldn't matter anything ... if Moscon is proven to be deliberately causing injuries of colleagues, he should be banned from cycling for at least 6 months ... in case he would be repeating such antics, I would thing he should be banned for life (cycling is dangerous enough as a sport, last thing you need is an idiot running amok) ....

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I still don't understand why Reichenbach thinks Moscons actions, whether deliberate or not, had anything to do with what happened way back in April.

You can't be serious.

If he has good reason to believe it was deliberate, I don't think there's any other way to look at it than it being retaliation for Reichenbach calling out Moscon on twitter.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

I still don't understand why Reichenbach thinks Moscons actions, whether deliberate or not, had anything to do with what happened way back in April.

You can't be serious.

I am. Here are the two incidents we're talking about:

A: Reichenbach called Moscon out for his racist behaviour way back in April.
B: Moscon - probably - caused Reichenbach to crash in October.
The second incident must per definition be linked to the first? Or is it possible that Moscon - justified or not - got mad at Reichenbach for something that had happened a few moments ago in the race?
What seems most logical to you:

1: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five months ago!" *BOOOM!*
2: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five seconds ago! *BOOOM!*

Impulse-control really doesn't seem to be Moscon's strongest suit, and to me there really isn't that big a difference between hurling a - apparently pretty serious - racial slur at someone in a fit of anger, and deliberately pushing someone off their bike in a fit of anger. Both things are done with the very short-term plan of "I'm gonna hurt that ***!"
Yet Moscon was able to keep cool in all the other situations where he raced against Reichenbach?

Of course deliberately pushing someone off their bike for something that happened five seconds ago is just as bad as deliberately pushing someone off their bike for something that happened five months ago.

 

[Ruudz0r]

Re:

I still don't understand why Reichenbach thinks Moscons actions, whether deliberate or not, had anything to do with what happened way back in April.
Honestly, Moscon's main problem seems to be that he doesn't quite understand the long-term, or even immediate, cause of his actions. Yet he waited several months for the "right" moment to get revenge on Reichenbach?
Reichenbach was totally right in calling out Moscon for his behaviour towards Reza, especially because that might be exactly what Moscon needed in order to - in time - understand why such behaviour is wrong. Also interesting that while Moscon obviously accepted that what he did was wrong, and apologised to Reza, he didn't seem to realise that what he said was racist...
Reichenbach might also be right that Moscon deliberately caused him to crash.
Those two things aren't necessarily connected.

This was actually only the 2nd race they did together since the incident, first one was Emilia last saturday.

 

[HelloDolly]

he was already going to carry the racist accident with him at every race he´ll compete until his career ends, noone will forget that. the Reichenbach crash will add to that.

And this is exactly why some people "defend" Moscon. Defend isn't really the right word, because nobody is actually excusing Moscon's use of a racial slur, they're just saying maybe branding him an evil racist and treating him like a pariah for the rest of his life (or at least career), because he used a racial slur once, with the specifics of the incident even being unknown, is a bit over the top.

But here is the crux of the issue. I have called him a racist on here . I am more than willing to accept that he had a lesson to learn and as I said would be happy in the coming years to see the best in the rider. One can do something wrong without being bad person forever ..

No one is without sin . But Moscon did not own up to what happened until pushed to do so. Then he came out again and got thrown off the World RR for cheating. Again he didnt appear to accept any wrong doing and was more concerned at pointing out his great ability

All reprehensible but hardly hanging offences...He could have accepted all and moved on

But its not me or others who have kept this to the forefront ...it looks like its Moscon himself who made this into a nightmare

He not only didnt move on and learn the lesson but...if TRUE ...he has brought a grudge with him and caused harm to another rider ...and who knows how Reichenbach could have crashed as it is a broken elbow is serious

This all says alot to the character of Moscon

 

[wouterkaas]

He not only didnt move on and learn the lesson but...if TRUE ...he has brought a grudge with him and caused harm to another rider ...and who knows how Reichenbach could have crashed as it is a broken elbow is serious

This all says alot to the character of Moscon

Once again: speculations.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

I still don't understand why Reichenbach thinks Moscons actions, whether deliberate or not, had anything to do with what happened way back in April.

You can't be serious.

I am. Here are the two incidents we're talking about:

A: Reichenbach called Moscon out for his racist behaviour way back in April.
B: Moscon - probably - caused Reichenbach to crash in October.
The second incident must per definition be linked to the first? Or is it possible that Moscon - justified or not - got mad at Reichenbach for something that had happened a few moments ago in the race?
What seems most logical to you:

1: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five months ago!" *BOOOM!*
2: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five seconds ago! *BOOOM!*

Impulse-control really doesn't seem to be Moscon's strongest suit, and to me there really isn't that big a difference between hurling a - apparently pretty serious - racial slur at someone in a fit of anger, and deliberately pushing someone off their bike in a fit of anger. Both things are done with the very short-term plan of "I'm gonna hurt that ****!"
Yet Moscon was able to keep cool in all the other situations where he raced against Reichenbach?

Of course deliberately pushing someone off their bike for something that happened five seconds ago is just as bad as deliberately pushing someone off their bike for something that happened five months ago.

Its quite likely that Moscon has not been in a position till now to be near Reichenbach in a race . and also the fact that when he was he gave Reichenbach a good push causing him to crash is quite feasible

Froome pushed Aru (going up hill) at the Tour in reply to Aru just attacking him previously during a mechanical ..so to do so on a descent after being outed for racist behaviour seems pretty feasible to me

Grudges in the peloton a rife

 

[HelloDolly]

He not only didnt move on and learn the lesson but...if TRUE ...he has brought a grudge with him and caused harm to another rider ...and who knows how Reichenbach could have crashed as it is a broken elbow is serious

This all says alot to the character of Moscon

Once again: speculations.

.Reichenbach has filed a complaint with the UCI and police

 

[bigcog]

I'd be surprised if the police case goes anywhere.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

I'd be surprised if the police case goes anywhere.

If there are witnesses as is being reported, then there's a chance it could.

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

I still don't understand why Reichenbach thinks Moscons actions, whether deliberate or not, had anything to do with what happened way back in April.
Honestly, Moscon's main problem seems to be that he doesn't quite understand the long-term, or even immediate, cause of his actions. Yet he waited several months for the "right" moment to get revenge on Reichenbach?
Reichenbach was totally right in calling out Moscon for his behaviour towards Reza, especially because that might be exactly what Moscon needed in order to - in time - understand why such behaviour is wrong. Also interesting that while Moscon obviously accepted that what he did was wrong, and apologised to Reza, he didn't seem to realise that what he said was racist...
Reichenbach might also be right that Moscon deliberately caused him to crash.
Those two things aren't necessarily connected.

This was actually only the 2nd race they did together since the incident, first one was Emilia last saturday.

this ... plus, if this was planned by Moscon, he perhaps would have made sure, not having any officials around ....

again, until proven guilty the guy is to remain innocent ...
however, I do not believe many a cyclist would make up an accusation of having been hit deliberately .... cycling is not football/soccer ... even the minor hits (like Sagan's in one of the Belgian races this spring) are accepted, if the push is just a "get out of my way" and not "I really want you to end up in the gutter" ....

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

I still don't understand why Reichenbach thinks Moscons actions, whether deliberate or not, had anything to do with what happened way back in April.

You can't be serious.

I am. Here are the two incidents we're talking about:

A: Reichenbach called Moscon out for his racist behaviour way back in April.
B: Moscon - probably - caused Reichenbach to crash in October.
The second incident must per definition be linked to the first? Or is it possible that Moscon - justified or not - got mad at Reichenbach for something that had happened a few moments ago in the race?
What seems most logical to you:

1: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five months ago!" *BOOOM!*
2: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five seconds ago! *BOOOM!*

Impulse-control really doesn't seem to be Moscon's strongest suit, and to me there really isn't that big a difference between hurling a - apparently pretty serious - racial slur at someone in a fit of anger, and deliberately pushing someone off their bike in a fit of anger. Both things are done with the very short-term plan of "I'm gonna hurt that ****!"
Yet Moscon was able to keep cool in all the other situations where he raced against Reichenbach?

Of course deliberately pushing someone off their bike for something that happened five seconds ago is just as bad as deliberately pushing someone off their bike for something that happened five months ago.

Its quite likely that Moscon has not been in a position till now to be near Reichenbach in a race . and also the fact that when he was he gave Reichenbach a good push causing him to crash is quite feasible

Froome pushed Aru (going up hill) at the Tour in reply to Aru just attacking him previously during a mechanical ..so to do so on a descent after being outed for racist behaviour seems pretty feasible to me

Grudges in the peloton a rife

Froome pushing Aru for something that just happened isn't carrying a grudge, it's simply being mad about something.
It's entirely possible that, whatever caused their - supposed - argument, Moscon got more angry at Reichenbach than he would've gotten at any other person because of some deep-seated resentment towards Reichenbach after the racist incident. I just still don't find it very likely that Moscon - whose reaction after returning from his six-week suspension was basically "I've moved on." - would just randomly go over to Reichenbach and push him off his bike.
What does Reichenbach even intend to achieve by claiming it was because of the racist incident? If it's proved that Moscon deliberately caused Reichenbach to crash, then the punishment is hopefully gonna be the same no matter what the motivation might have been, and yes; six months seems like a fair punishment. Six months starting January 1st, mind you. Giving someone a six-months ban starting in October just seems a bit pointless...

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re: Re:

and to me there really isn't that big a difference between hurling a - apparently pretty serious - racial slur at someone in a fit of anger, and deliberately pushing someone off their bike in a fit of anger.

Things are getting kind of off-topic now, but you really don't see a big difference between saying something offensive and physically assaulting somebody?

Whatever happened to do good old cliche "sticks and stones (and being pushed into the gutter while riding a bike at a high speed) may beak my bones, but words will never break me".........

If you can't control your tongue when angry, you can certainly get into trouble, but when you can't control your hands when angry, you'll generally end up in jail in due time (and rightly so).

 

[rata de sentina]

Re:

Those two things aren't necessarily connected.

That is a remote possibility.

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

even the minor hits (like Sagan's in one of the Belgian races this spring) are accepted

Yes of course, it was Her Majesty, so it was just a minor hit and it's accepted. Max Vantomme should be more of a showoff, perhaps he'd be more respected.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

even the minor hits (like Sagan's in one of the Belgian races this spring) are accepted

Yes of course, it was Her Majesty, so it was just a minor hit and it's accepted. Max Vantomme should be more of a showoff, perhaps he'd be more respected.

The difference here is whether it is an intentional act to cause harm or careless and exuberant behaviour that may cause an accident ....big big difference

 

[rata de sentina]

Re: Re:

Froome pushing Aru for something that just happened isn't carrying a grudge, it's simply being mad about something.
It's entirely possible that, whatever caused their - supposed - argument, Moscon got more angry at Reichenbach than he would've gotten at any other person because of some deep-seated resentment towards Reichenbach after the racist incident. I just still don't find it very likely that Moscon - whose reaction after returning from his six-week suspension was basically "I've moved on." - would just randomly go over to Reichenbach and push him off his bike.
What does Reichenbach even intend to achieve by claiming it was because of the racist incident?

Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. For a start Moscon's reaction wasn't "I've moved on". It was clear he felt hard done by but was forced to "move on". If anything his attitude was churlish rather than contrite. Now you are making up some imaginary altercation between the two for some other reason as a more plausible explanation than a well known reason for a grudge!

 

[fauniera]

Re: Re:

I am. Here are the two incidents we're talking about:

A: Reichenbach called Moscon out for his racist behaviour way back in April.
B: Moscon - probably - caused Reichenbach to crash in October.
The second incident must per definition be linked to the first? Or is it possible that Moscon - justified or not - got mad at Reichenbach for something that had happened a few moments ago in the race?
What seems most logical to you:

1: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five months ago!" *BOOOM!*
2: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five seconds ago! *BOOOM!*

I can't quite work out how anyone can think that an entirely hypothetical "second encounter" is more likely the cause than the well known "disagreement" between those riders concerning Moscon's racist behaviour. Occam's razor is your friend.

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

The difference here is whether it is an intentional act to cause harm or careless and exuberant behaviour that may cause an accident ....big big difference

Re watch the clip and dare to tell me it was unintentional.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

I am. Here are the two incidents we're talking about:

A: Reichenbach called Moscon out for his racist behaviour way back in April.
B: Moscon - probably - caused Reichenbach to crash in October.
The second incident must per definition be linked to the first? Or is it possible that Moscon - justified or not - got mad at Reichenbach for something that had happened a few moments ago in the race?
What seems most logical to you:

1: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five months ago!" *BOOOM!*
2: Moscon going "I'm mad at you for something that happened five seconds ago! *BOOOM!*

I can't quite work out how anyone can think that an entirely hypothetical "second encounter" is more likely the cause than the well known "disagreement" between those riders concerning Moscon's racist behaviour. Occam's razor is your friend.

It could be a combination of both explanations.