The Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping Thread

[Echoes]

You certainly make a compelling as to why Moscon may have a massive grudge against Reichenbach.

I know and have already implied I fear that might be what has happened. Future will tell us. That would prove he did not intend to racially abuse a fellow rider in the first place. Hopefully it isn't.

what do you want ? a signed affidavit ?

https://roadcyclinguk.com/racing/team-skys-gianni-moscon-banned-racial-abuse.html

Moscon clearly accepted what he said was wrong and he was disciplined

He said something wrong. He denied racially abusing a fellow rider. Who's right? Who's wrong?

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

I clearly wrote that "I do not excuse things he has done and said in the past," but curiously, though you quoted the sentence before, you left out that quote.
Looks like Moscon is not the only one who carefully picks his words.

FFS

here is what you wrote

I feel more and more sympathy for Moscon every time I read posters here vociferously attacking him based on speculation and lack of information.

I do not excuse things he has done and said in the past, but to attack him at every opportunity, to call him a bad person when you have no idea who he is, to hope that a 23-year-old's career be ruined... That is truly disgraceful.

The hypocrisy and biased speculation by some posters here infuriates me.

Clearly stating your sympathy for Moscon ..because posters 'attack' him

And you 'do not excuse what he has done in the past' but 'to attack him at every opportunity'
You have set out your stall and words ...and it reads as if its just the 'attackers' that are at fault
You can use any semantics you want but that is the message of your post

So in what way do you not excuse his behaviour...because we can all write that we do not exuce something while in the next breath excusing it

Use whatever words you like your meaning is very clear ...and it is obvious where your sympathies lie

I would say mine lie with Reichenbach

Exactly.
Moscon at this point doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore.

If the Nouvelliste report is correct, this is a *very* grave matter.

 

[wouterkaas]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/moscon-denies-causing-reichenbach-crash/

Moscon told the Gazzetta Dello Sport that he has nothing to do with it, saying Reichenbachs hands slipped off the handlebars while on a rough piece of road. I wonder whether other riders will confirm what happened, whatever that may be.

 

[Der Effe]

Racism is such a serious issue that I would think twice before accusing anyone of it. You cannot make such serious accusation without being 100% sure you are right.

I had similar accusation against myself in the pas and it was very painful. So yeah I cannot accept accusations of racism against anyone without concrete evidence. You don't realise how painful it is because you think you are on the "good" side.

You're right, poor Gianni is a victim. Even his team, which is sponsored by a company that embodies white male* supremacy, acknowledged his wrongdoings.

The apologists are out in full force again. Painful.

*Apart from the working class, obviously.

 

[Echoes]

You're right, poor Gianni is a victim. Even his team, which is sponsored by a company that embodies white male* supremacy, acknowledged his wrongdoings.

Again, so you trust that team...

 

[Der Effe]

You're right, poor Gianni is a victim. Even his team, which is sponsored by a company that embodies white male* supremacy, acknowledged his wrongdoings.

Again, so you trust that team...

Why would they have any benefits from suspending their own riders? Distrusting Team Sky in this particular case only makes sense if they set up this suspensiom to cover up for something even bigger.

 

[PremierAndrew]

You're right, poor Gianni is a victim. Even his team, which is sponsored by a company that embodies white male* supremacy, acknowledged his wrongdoings.

Again, so you trust that team...

Why would they have any benefits from suspending their own riders? Distrusting Team Sky in this particular case only makes sense if they set up this suspensiom to cover up for something even bigger.

They suspended him for a period where he wasn't going to be racing anyway

 

[Echoes]

Yes. Thereby they could maintain a good image, pretend they are fighting against racism and close the case as quickly as possible at the detriment of truth. They would have much less benefit in trying to restore the honour of their rider.

 

[HelloDolly]

Yes. Thereby they could maintain a good image, pretend they are fighting against racism and close the case as quickly as possible at the detriment of truth. They would have much less benefit in trying to restore the honour of their rider.

Portal said the word Moson used was very very bad ...
I have heard ..unverified... what that word was ...and it is not a simple heat of the moment argument word

"Gianni knows that there is no excuse for his behaviour and that any repeat will result in termination of his contract." was the SKY line...It was serious ...serious enough for an intelliegnt young man in the 21st century to know what the word meant and for SKY to threaten dismissal of one of their stars if repeated

Serious enough for Reichenbach to write that tweet

But if no one wants to call a spade a spade here then .....

I would and most people have forgotten this by next year and everyone would when Moscon wins Paris Roubaix or the Tour but now it looks like its never going away if Moscon deliberately caused Reichenbach to crash

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/reichenbach-files-complaints-against-moscon-with-police-and-uci/

 

[rata de sentina]

Well the Moscon fan club are suffering from some egg on face action.

I hardly think that making a police report constitutes some sort if idle mischief making from FDJ. Which was never a plausible explanation anyway.

 

[bigcog]

Any actual footage ? I presume not.

 

[hrotha]

An official complaint (before the police, no less) gives this a lot more credibility, especially if he has witnesses willing to testify, as he says.

 

[silvergrenade]

Gianni Moscon might be behind it but why is the FDJ twitter handle writing about it?
Has that ever happened before?
I can't imagine a team handle (except FDJ) saying a crash occured because of this particular rider X.

 

[bigcog]

Re:

An official complaint (before the police, no less) gives this a lot more credibility, especially if he has witnesses willing to testify, as he says.

Yes potentially, who are the witnesses ?

 

[Poursuivant]

The Luis Suarez of cycling.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

An official complaint (before the police, no less) gives this a lot more credibility, especially if he has witnesses willing to testify, as he says.

Yes potentially, who are the witnesses ?

yes this is going to be difficult ...not that I dont believe its true and others saw it but in cycling riders do not put their heads above the parapet vey easily ..There modis operandi is to keep a low profile

Mostly because of the fragile nature of contracts and the feeling they may need SKY or indeed a job where Moscon could hold sway in the future

In fairness people rather than attacking FDJ should support the courage of Reichenbach both previously and now....but I guess people on here would rather dismiss anything on Moscon than support someone standing up to him

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

The point is that all these articles are merely based on FDJ's point of view, mostly the tweet and some French journalist apparently 'close to the team'.

FDJ's point of view isn't really required or relevant. Given the facts and the previous history most people can put 2 and 2 together, other people are Moscon's fan club.

It's '2 and 2 together' if that's what you are wanting to read in this incident. FDJ's point of view is relevant, because 'given the facts and the previous history' they've got reasons to defame Moscon. It's something you have to take into account.

If FDJ has "reasons to defame Moscon" based on "the facts and the previous history" then aren't we equally also inclined to believe that Moscon is potentially guilty of what he is accused using the same criteria?

 

[HelloDolly]

Re:

Gianni Moscon might be behind it but why is the FDJ twitter handle writing about it?
Has that ever happened before?
I can't imagine a team handle (except FDJ) saying a crash occured because of this particular rider X.

And you point is what ?

That reporting a crime (because that is what it is if true) is worse than the crime ?

Sigh

 

[wouterkaas]

Re: Re:

Gianni Moscon might be behind it but why is the FDJ twitter handle writing about it?
Has that ever happened before?
I can't imagine a team handle (except FDJ) saying a crash occured because of this particular rider X.

And you point is what ?

That reporting a crime (because that is what it is if true) is worse than the crime ?

Sigh

I think his point is that it is rather unusual for teams to call out other riders on social media. They could have chosen not to post it on Twitter and just follow the procedures to take care of the incident. They could post about the confirmed outcome of such a procedure, possibly mentioning Moscon. Now it's mainly FDJ feeding all kinds of speculations, leaving Moscon to the judgement of the public regardless of the truth behind the incident and Moscon's intentions.

 

[pastronef]

Yes. Thereby they could maintain a good image, pretend they are fighting against racism and close the case as quickly as possible at the detriment of truth. They would have much less benefit in trying to restore the honour of their rider.

Portal said the word Moson used was very very bad ...
I have heard ..unverified... what that word was ...and it is not a simple heat of the moment argument word

"Gianni knows that there is no excuse for his behaviour and that any repeat will result in termination of his contract." was the SKY line...It was serious ...serious enough for an intelliegnt young man in the 21st century to know what the word meant and for SKY to threaten dismissal of one of their stars if repeated

Serious enough for Reichenbach to write that tweet

But if no one wants to call a spade a spade here then .....

I would and most people have forgotten this by next year and everyone would when Moscon wins Paris Roubaix or the Tour but now it looks like its never going away if Moscon deliberately caused Reichenbach to crash

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/reichenbach-files-complaints-against-moscon-with-police-and-uci/

he was already going to carry the racist accident with him at every race he´ll compete until his career ends, noone will forget that. the Reichenbach crash will add to that.

 

[Angliru]

You certainly make a compelling as to why Moscon may have a massive grudge against Reichenbach.

I know and have already implied I fear that might be what has happened. Future will tell us. That would prove he did not intend to racially abuse a fellow rider in the first place. Hopefully it isn't.

what do you want ? a signed affidavit ?

https://roadcyclinguk.com/racing/team-skys-gianni-moscon-banned-racial-abuse.html

Moscon clearly accepted what he said was wrong and he was disciplined

He said something wrong. He denied racially abusing a fellow rider. Who's right? Who's wrong?

He denied it and yet his team, after doing their own investigation which I'm assuming was the time between when the incident happened and he was allowed to continue to compete in the Tour de Romandie, decided that a 6 week suspension for racially abusing a fellow rider was appropriate as did the UCI who felt it unnecessary to override Sky's decision on his punishment. I would say it's quite clear who is right and who is wrong.

 

[Blanco]

I would wait for the outcome, I'm curious who the witnesses are, and will they testify. If Moscon really pushed Reichenbach deliberately, he deserves a long-time ban from cycling at least...

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Gianni Moscon might be behind it but why is the FDJ twitter handle writing about it?
Has that ever happened before?
I can't imagine a team handle (except FDJ) saying a crash occured because of this particular rider X.

And you point is what ?

That reporting a crime (because that is what it is if true) is worse than the crime ?

Sigh

I think his point is that it is rather unusual for teams to call out other riders on social media. They could have chosen not to post it on Twitter and just follow the procedures to take care of the incident. They could post about the confirmed outcome of such a procedure, possibly mentioning Moscon. Now it's mainly FDJ feeding all kinds of speculations, leaving Moscon to the judgement of the public regardless of the truth behind the incident and Moscon's intentions.

Thanks Wouterkaas.
Innocent until Proven Guilty.

 

[Echoes]

He denied it and yet his team, after doing their own investigation, which I'm assuming was the time between when the incident happened and he was allowed to continue to compete in the Tour de Romandie, decided that a 6 week suspension for racially abusing a fellow rider was appropriate as did the UCI who felt it unnecessary to to override Sky's decision on his punishment. I would say it's quite clear who is right and who is wrong.

When Sky and the UCI speak, they are always right, aren't they?

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

he was already going to carry the racist accident with him at every race he´ll compete until his career ends, noone will forget that. the Reichenbach crash will add to that.

And this is exactly why some people "defend" Moscon. Defend isn't really the right word, because nobody is actually excusing Moscon's use of a racial slur, they're just saying maybe branding him an evil racist and treating him like a pariah for the rest of his life (or at least career), because he used a racial slur once, with the specifics of the incident even being unknown, is a bit over the top.