The Giro vs The Tour

[Michele]

Well I think that Purito is the 1st to do so... He said publicly that his main targets for this season were Classics, Giro and Vuelta... He pass Le Tour cuz the field doesnt suit him... Great for Purito!

Purito actually said that he wanted to do Classics and then totally focus on le Tour.
It's Tchmil who keeps saying that Rodriguez will do Giro.

 

[Ryaguas]

Purito actually said that he wanted to do Classics and then totally focus on le Tour.
It's Tchmil who keeps saying that Rodriguez will do Giro.

In Spanish cuz I couldnt find the news in english =/...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I watch the Tour for all of the competitions within it. The sprinting is not as dull as the KOM competition. I mentioned Cancellara not as a potential winner but a quality rider and stage winner. Can you honestly see Sastre or Rujano making the podium or even the top 5 of the Giro at this stage. Anton looked good in the Vuelta until he crashed but could he do the same in the TDF......no. Barring crashes or illness I can't see anyone winning the Giro apart from Menchov or Nibali because they're the best allrounders. Rodriguez cannot time trial so Anton or Scarponi for third then a big gap to everyone else. Similar to the TDF field with 3 or 4 riders standing out above the others. But not inferior to the Giro. Mixture of quality veterans, hungry young riders and proven winners. Both should be good. Even the Vuelta was a good race last year although Anton's crash put a dampener on things.

Reaching the podium: Sastre no, Rujano yes. He has all the ability, just needs the motivation. And the queen stage of this year's Giro? One he won on the only other passage over it.

Antón... could he do the same in the Tour? Probably not - but mainly because the Tour's routes don't suit him as well as the other GTs, because he tends to make the difference on the really steep stuff. In the '08 Vuelta he was the one going with Contador and Valverde when nobody else could.

And if you say that there's only really Menchov and Nibali who are all rounders who can win, I say that in the Tour there's only really Contador and Schleck who can win.

There's then a few people in both races who can viably podium that race - Evans, Basso, Rujano, Scarponi, Antón, Samuel Sánchez

Then you have the people who are top 10 fodder - Gesink, van den Broeck, Fränk Schleck, Rodríguez, Vinokourov, Kreuziger, Tondó, Bruseghin, Hesjedal.

There are just as many in each race, but the ones at the Giro are liable to provide better racing.

 

[Michele]

In Spanish cuz I couldnt find the news in english =/...

Thanks, didnt know about them.

I was stuck at the following.

Rodríguez wants Tour podium and Vuelta win

Rodriguez unsure of Giro d'Italia participation

 

[racerhead]

Giro vs. Tour

For us in the US...i.e., me...it's fine time the Giro got some TV time. I don't have cable so my cycling viewing is limited but thank god for Universal Sports! They brought the Giro to the US viewing public and shined a light on a GREAT race, IMHO.

Better than the Tour...I think it is. Maybe the Tour will be worth watching again without the constant coverage on LA overshadowing all the other racing/racers.

 

[The Hitch]

In Spanish cuz I couldnt find the news in english =/...

If you were able to comment on a marca article that means you live in spain correct?

 

[Ryaguas]

If you were able to comment on a marca article that means you live in spain correct?

Ah you looked at my comment =D was the last made tho... Well yep... to be able to comment on marca you have to live in Spain...

 

[Garrigou]

There is no 'better' or 'worse' - scenery, script or racing. We just each have our preferences. Certainly bald statistics about stages, written & read about months in advance, cannot determine which event will create more excitement & pleasure. Weather, tactics, mood swings & luck will all play a huge part.
Undeniably, there seems to be a 3-5 year old 'fashion' for rating the Giro ahead of the Tour, but a lot of that seems to be to do with 'lifestyle marketing' and achingly hip 'commentators' seducing folks into what to think.
Me? I'll look forward equally to both and appreciate them on their merits.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I love the Giro, I love the Tour, they are both great. It doesn't always have to be either-or.

this. The giro is a better race, certainly in recent years. But I still love to watch the tour, people seem to hold a vendetta against the race because the media don't give races like the giro enough credit. big whoop.

Menchov 2008. Menchov 2009. Sastre 2009. Ivan Basso 2010. Cadel Evans 2010.

Examples in recent years of Grand Tour / World champions going into the tour off peak. In sastres case that was the defending champion.

actually menchov rode the 08' giro not at full stead and peaked at the tour (he was in extreamly good form at the tour also, and possibly would have won if he didn't crash every second minute). And at 09' he intended to be at full form for the giro also, but the giro took it's toll i guess.
Sastre and evans had the same ignorant idea.
Basso yes.

Anyway Fowsto Cope-E does have a point. Overall lots of riders do attempt to peak for the tour, and in reality withi the peleton it is the most important race of the calender (not that i agree).

And maybe the giro has an impressive contendor line up, but the tour has greater depth on a whole. Contendors, Second string contendors, best sprinters almost always turn up for the tour.
Schlecks, evans, basso, gesink, Samu, Jrod, JVDB, Vino as contendors, but then a lot of riders whom could do better elsewhere but choose to do the tour at peak form (not being biased, an example is mollema who could maybe break a top ten in the giro, but would rather waste his gt as a domestique for the tour. a shame).

 

[Angliru]

this. The giro is a better race, certainly in recent years. But I still love to watch the tour, people seem to hold a vendetta against the race because the media don't give races like the giro enough credit. big whoop.



actually menchov rode the 08' giro not at full stead and peaked at the tour (he was in extreamly good form at the tour also, and possibly would have won if he didn't crash every second minute). And at 09' he intended to be at full form for the giro also, but the giro took it's toll i guess.
Sastre and evans had the same ignorant idea.
Basso yes.

Basso was sick at the Tour, some type of fever/virus that sapped his strength but likely as a direct result of a grueling Giro.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Basso was sick at the Tour, some type of fever, virus that sapped his strength but likely as a direct result of a grueling Giro.

even if he wasn't sick i can't imagine (even if on the juice) rider being good after the giro, especially this year. Why these riders still suggest they can do the double is beyond me.

 

[roundabout]

Watch Contador prove you wrong in just over 5 months.

 

[Ryaguas]

Watch Contador prove you wrong in just over 5 months.

I was thinking the same but this Giro... uffff... This Giro is not for humans... If He goes big time in Il Giro He will struggle big time in Le Tour...

 

[Parrulo]

ya but things take their normal course and no1 waits for shleck when he falls(and we all know he will), contador will be 10 minutes ahead of him by the time they reach the first mountain stage.

so with shleck out no1 can put a challenge to contador even if it is a tired version of contador XD

 

[roundabout]

I was thinking the same but this Giro... uffff... This Giro is not for humans... If He goes big time in Il Giro He will struggle big time in Le Tour...

Have faith in your man. He beat the rap, what's some Italian mountains compared to that.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Undeniably, there seems to be a 3-5 year old 'fashion' for rating the Giro ahead of the Tour, but a lot of that seems to be to do with 'lifestyle marketing' and achingly hip 'commentators' seducing folks into what to think.
Me? I'll look forward equally to both and appreciate them on their merits.

I don't prefer the Giro to be hip or for lifestyle or anything.

I prefer the Giro because I hate sprints, and because the Tour - especially in the last decade - is so important that people are too afraid of failing to reach for the stars. In that respect, the smaller audience for the Giro is a good thing.

I still watch and even enjoy the Tour (in the important stages anyway. I reserve the right to moan all the way through every stage where HTC peg the break at 3 minutes and never let them get a second further up the road lest there actually be a risk of more than 200m being important). But it's selling something different to what the Giro is selling.

The Tour is seeing one of your favourite old bands in a huge festival, pyrotechnics, singalongs to all the big hits, it's great. The Giro is like seeing one of your favourite bands in a medium-sized venue, playing some of your favourite obscure album tracks, interacting with the audience, putting on a great show but without all the stadium-rocking explosions and gimmicks.

 

[Havetts]

I don't prefer the Giro to be hip or for lifestyle or anything.

I prefer the Giro because I hate sprints, and because the Tour - especially in the last decade - is so important that people are too afraid of failing to reach for the stars. In that respect, the smaller audience for the Giro is a good thing.

I still watch and even enjoy the Tour (in the important stages anyway. I reserve the right to moan all the way through every stage where HTC peg the break at 3 minutes and never let them get a second further up the road lest there actually be a risk of more than 200m being important). But it's selling something different to what the Giro is selling.

This oh so this, I just can NOT stand stages being predetermined to be a sprint stage so that the breakaway gets caught in the last 1 to 10 km's and HTC puts the train forward and it ends in a boring sprint where Cavendish rides everyone 3 times out of his wheel.

For me the Giro is more of the man's race, way tougher and climbing orientated.

 

[hfer07]

I was thinking the same but this Giro... uffff... This Giro is not for humans... If He goes big time in Il Giro He will struggle big time in Le Tour...

Fvck LeTour- Il Giro is what matters nowadays-AC,Nibali,Purito, Kreuziger & all the new riders called upon to be the kings of cycling are making the right call to choose the Giro over LeTour. BTW- now that AC is clear-I hope he loose it against eather Nibali or Purito.

 

[The Hitch]

I don't prefer the Giro to be hip or for lifestyle or anything.

I prefer the Giro because I hate sprints, and because the Tour - especially in the last decade - is so important that people are too afraid of failing to reach for the stars. In that respect, the smaller audience for the Giro is a good thing.

I still watch and even enjoy the Tour (in the important stages anyway. I reserve the right to moan all the way through every stage where HTC peg the break at 3 minutes and never let them get a second further up the road lest there actually be a risk of more than 200m being important). But it's selling something different to what the Giro is selling.

The Tour is seeing one of your favourite old bands in a huge festival, pyrotechnics, singalongs to all the big hits, it's great. The Giro is like seeing one of your favourite bands in a medium-sized venue, playing some of your favourite obscure album tracks, interacting with the audience, putting on a great show but without all the stadium-rocking explosions and gimmicks.

For me theres more.

Theres the weather. Tour is during the hottest northen hemisphere month . SUn is out. People are on holiday. I always feel a bit crap watching them soft pedal, checking how far left to the last (and only contested climb) and checking if the sun has faded a bit. May can be hot but not so much. Some of the Giro still has snow after all.

But more to this there is a passion about italian cycling. Fans with huge signs. When Basso won last year the presenter said "ivan" and then the crowd scremed "BASSO!!!"


The commentators are living it. Their voice is weak with excitement as they shout " la ultima curva"

In the Tour it seems typically French that they just ride around parade the country side. People find fun ways to write Tour de france or large wooden bycycles or show some signs and they get the coverage cos the cyclists sure as hell arent doing that.

The riders, excepting those in the break, are enjoying the publicity, the fact that they are riding "Le Tour" and waiting for the sprint, last mountain, or to get into the break another day.

The mass media, coming round to cycling once a year, is talking about how hard it is, and its possible that as a result it reminds the riders how hard it is and they try to give themselves more rest. I remember Sean Kelly talking this year about how in his time during the Tour they would agree to take it easy on some stages.

In the Giro, there is not this mass media, there are just the fans and the will to win. ANd far less rest days (i mean "rest days" not "rest days")

And the Tour does have passion too, no doubt, especially on the main hc mountain finish every year, and i love that its international, with US and AUstralian and Dutch fans.

But the Giro passion impresses me more precisely because its the lesser race. Few people know it exists outside of Italy. 10 years of watching general knowledge quiz programmes i have not once heard a question about the Giro. Try telling your average Brit that Cav won Milan San Remo and wore La Maglia Rosa. "he did what?"

But in Italy they dont care. To them its the biggest thing, and they show they love it, and thats why i love it.

Fvck LeTour- Il Giro is what matters nowadays-AC,Nibali,Purito, Kreuziger & all the new riders called upon to be the kings of cycling are making the right call to choose the Giro over LeTour. BTW- now that AC is clear-I hope he loose it against eather Nibali or Purito.

Exactly. Like i said. THe blue ribbon event for 2011.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Although I agree with what you say, especially regarding the atmosphere (I have an Italian mate who recently moved here, doesn't like cycling, doesn't like the tour, but loves the giro ) but the tour for the most part is raced a pretty high intensity, teams try to take control of the race I'n high speeds and and as a result the race tends to be quite boring. Maybe one or two stages a year are soft peddaled, but otherwise it's raced quite quickly.
Too structured actually.

My reasons for liking the giro more is similar to libertine. Mountains!!!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

All well and good, Hitch, but part of it is that the average pace of the péloton is higher at the Tour. That's because it's so important nobody can risk something going wrong so everybody is alert. The break can never get so far up the road to prevent the sprint because the péloton doesn't cruise and let them go, and because they've been racing at a constantly higher speed, the big names have less gas left in the tank to go for it, so they'd be more likely to wait for the final climb even if they weren't already racing more conservatively because they're afraid of falling out of the top 10.

 

[The Hitch]

Higher pace overall or higher on flat stages?

It shouldnt be surprising that Tour pace is higher considering they have more flat stages while Giro has more mountains, more hills and they are more contested. Its difficult to manage a 50k an hour stage when youve had Grappa Zoncolan and Kronplatz 3 days in a row.

Ok so they dont have that every year, but even when they dont there are still usually more mountains, harder mountains.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Higher pace overall or higher on flat stages?

It shouldnt be surprising that Tour pace is higher considering they have more flat stages while Giro has more mountains, more hills and they are more contested. Its difficult to manage a 50k an hour stage when youve had Grappa Zoncolan and Kronplatz 3 days in a row.

Ok so they dont have that every year, but even when they dont there are still usually more mountains, harder mountains.

They go harder even on the mountain stages, pace is so high that - like libertine mentioned - the riders have nothing left I'n the tank on the final climb.

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

The Giro has been more mountainous lately because historically the race's organizers have geared it toward the strengths of the current crop of Italian riders. Back in the early 80s, when the best Italians were Moser and Saronni, the Giro was much flatter than it is today.

 

[luckyboy]

Really hope nothing happens to AC before this Giro. It's gonna be so great.