The Good that Lance has done.

[mad black]

What has LA personally done to any of you to deserve that kind of hate?

You can argue all you want but that LA increased the popularity of cycling worldwide is an undisputeable fact. He certainly encouraged thousands of people to get on a bike, the very least of whom bought Treks as I may add.

How else do you explain the spectator numbers skyrocketing at the TDU over the past 3 years of Lance's participation? Friends of mine who are recreational cyclists and don't understand much about pro cycling at all went to Adelaide just to see him. He's a bloody celebrity, if you like it or not!

As a matter of fact he's the only celebrity cycling ever had! Understandably this makes him the prime target of envy, hate and mistrust (founded and unfounded).

As I see it LA finds himself in the same predicament as Tiger, all everyone wants is to see the perfect image crumble and eventually being shattered. So that everyone has an excuse to say "See, I'm (morally) bettter than that guy with his millions!". - Get a life and get over it! Or even better have the tenacity to earn your own millions.

 

[Ferminal]

And how much of a good thing is "increased awareness".

Okay, if say, a government was not aware of cancer, then making them aware and lobbying them to spend millions on cancer treatment facilities and research would be a win for "awareness". Likewise it might encourage more genuine cancer charities and NGOs to appear.

But I'm not sure that people weren't aware of cancer in the late 90s, and only through LiveSTRONG were they able to see it?

The only real benefit which "increased awareness" may have achieved is education with regards to screening and health in general to minimise the risks and severity of cancers. Many other organisations seem to do this well without the need for large "expenses" and "programs" and "transport". Personally I haven't seen the LAF doing anything for awareness near me (I thought it was a global campaign?).

Maybe that's an ignorant view based too much upon the world closer to me, but it seems like "awareness" is an absolute joke compared to "research" and "treatment".

"See, I'm (morally) bettter than that guy with his millions!". - Get a life and get over it! Or even better have the tenacity to earn your own millions.

Is it OK for us to earn those many millions off the branding of our charities?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Nope I'd argue Lance Armstrong has done more for raising cycling's profile in Australia than any Australian rider. I'd also argue that if you asked a person in Africa, Asia or South America you'd get the name Lance Armstrong 9 out of 10 times. Before that they'd be hard pressed to name any professional road cyclist.



Yes and for anything to succeed it needs money.



I'm going to argue raise the profile for cancer because it did mainly showed through Lance a cancer survivor who not only survived but also prospered professionally and personally.

You forgot to mention the doping..... which in time he will be most remembered for.

What is the 'profile' of the sport going to be like when the only rider '9 out of 10' people in Africa, Asia or South America find he is a cheat and fraud?

So if you are fortunate enough to survive cancer all you need is to risk your health by doping and bribe, bully people you too can have a successful life.

 

[The Hitch]

when I wake up I want a Poll asking people if they were aware of cancer pre 99.

If you phrased it like that, i would be forced to vote "no".

 

[veganrob]

If he is the guy that invented the bike then "hell Yea".

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What has LA personally done to any of you to deserve that kind of hate?

You can argue all you want but that LA increased the popularity of cycling worldwide is an undisputeable fact. He certainly encouraged thousands of people to get on a bike, the very least of whom bought Treks as I may add.

How else do you explain the spectator numbers skyrocketing at the TDU over the past 3 years of Lance's participation? Friends of mine who are recreational cyclists and don't understand much about pro cycling at all went to Adelaide just to see him. He's a bloody celebrity, if you like it or not!

As a matter of fact he's the only celebrity cycling ever had! Understandably this makes him the prime target of envy, hate and mistrust (founded and unfounded).

As I see it LA finds himself in the same predicament as Tiger, all everyone wants is to see the perfect image crumble and eventually being shattered. So that everyone has an excuse to say "See, I'm (morally) bettter than that guy with his millions!". - Get a life and get over it! Or even better have the tenacity to earn your own millions.

You're confusing spectators with participants:

In Australia the figures joining CA have increased year on year with the biggest increases before LA.

2010: 19,875.
2009: 19,156.
2008: 17,665.
2007: 15,987.
2006: 14,534.
2005: 12,437.

 

[Berzin]

Real cyclists who love the sport fall in love with it when they see cats out there on their bikes looking healthy, in shape and motivated, not when they see some 'roided-out hamster-faced moron riding in France once a year.

Armstrong's groupie battalion love Lance and what he represents to them, not cycling as a sport.

 

[Deagol]

What has LA personally done to any of you to deserve that kind of hate?
......

As you may know, there are at least two people, probably more, right here on this forum who personally know/knew Lance. Ask them ....
I believe some of it is a matter of public record after the trails.

 

[la.margna]

Lance awareness, not cancer awareness. Yello awareness. $$$ awareness.

Lance IS NOT CANCER AWARENESS! STOPPP IT!! biggest fraud/scam ever! what a joke! has he ever visited one cancer fighter truly, from the heart, without media being present? all a large profiteering and image distraction campaing. outrageous. disgusting. but someone needs to come up for the jet fuel of his private jet. good he is cashing in these days through demand media IPO on livestrong.com. sick! no morals. Lance awareness. Lance awareness. Yellow dickring. Yellow headband. $$$$ cancer is a business for LA, big time. People who do something from the heart, honestly and trulyl for the good don't have to televise and mediatise it. a racket based on a big lie. cheat as cheat can and cheat with a charity.

 

[M Sport]

- Promoted cycling outside Europe
- Promoted cycling to the most important market of all; well off baby boomer men

He didn't promote, but he made it more popular. I'm not sure I agree baby boomer men is the most important market for cycling right now though. I would say it is woman.

- Increased cancer awareness (let's not argue about this)

No brainer, NO. He may have raised the awareness of yellow c0<k rings and his own brand of cancer awareness (Livestrong) but certainley no more or less people are aware of cancer because of Lance.

Was it worth it?

No. All gained by deception and fraud. I'm glad cycling is more popular than when I started riding in the eighties but feel uneasy that some of it was because of Lance.

 

[AussieGoddess]

As a doctor, I have seen Lance's influence on patients confronted with a cancer diagnosis. Lying in the anaesthetic bay scared about what's going to confront them on the other side of the operation. They'll have read a Lance quote or even a book, and they hope. No way I'm taking that from them.

Was it worth it? Certainly for Lance it's been worth it so far. But I don't think the end justifies the means.

thank you for that - and yes I agree.

As someone who has been there with a cancer diagnosis ... the most important thing is hope.

The fact that someone can recover from cancer, and rise to the top of a very physically demanding elite sport gives hope to EVERY cancer survivor. It gives inspiration.

The fact that he took PED's to do it .... meh. If I took those and got well enough to ride to the top of Alpe D'uez I would - and be incredibly happy about it.

If he had just won the TdF's and travelled the world as a celebrity and spokesperson I would be fine with it.

But using his foundation to support his lifestyle, milking cancer survivors and their families and friends (who are after all the majority of the donors) of millions of dollars is NOT ok.

When it all comes out (and it will), those donors who would otherwise give money to ACTUAL charities will be turned off from donating at all.

So No - I dont think the good is worth it.

 

[MacRoadie]

As a matter of fact he's the only celebrity cycling ever had!

That one sentence belies such an incredible ignorance, that everything else you may have to say that could possibly be merit is rendered completely moot.

 

[mikeNphilly]

That one sentence belies such an incredible ignorance, that everything else you may have to say that could possibly be merit is rendered completely moot.

Yes, because there have been numerous cyclist that beat out people on the ESPY's for athlete of the year, for many years. Yes, there have been many cyclist on the cover of SI. Yes, there has been many cyclist that people all over the world know their name and cyclist that date rock stars/movie stars and do commercials with the biggest names in sports in the world...oh wait He did not say great cyclist(there are many of them), he said celebrity--name 1 cyclist that has garnered the press coverage of LA/fame, you can not name one.

As for the rest of this thread, Lance has marketed cycling in America, and people have bought into it. I think that is good, I don't care if he gets rich doing it, all athletes in his stratosphere gets rich.

Cancer awareness--I don't spend enough time in the Cancer centers in my hospitals to know of his impact if any.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes, because there have been numerous cyclist that beat out people on the ESPY's for athlete of the year, for many years. Yes, there have been many cyclist on the cover of SI. Yes, there has been many cyclist that people all over the world know their name and cyclist that date rock stars/movie stars and do commercials with the biggest names in sports in the world...oh wait He did not say great cyclist(there are many of them), he said celebrity--name 1 cyclist that has garnered the press coverage of LA/fame, you can not name one.

As for the rest of this thread, Lance has marketed cycling in America, and people have bought into it. I think that is good, I don't care if he gets rich doing it, all athletes in his stratosphere gets rich.

Cancer awareness--I don't spend enough time in the Cancer centers in my hospitals to know of his impact if any.

So an American cyclist is recognized in America makes him a celebrity...
From a European perspective - besides cycling publications, it has been a long time since I have read a positive piece about Armstrong.

 

[MacRoadie]

Yes, because there have been numerous cyclist that beat out people on the ESPY's for athlete of the year, for many years.

Right, because cycling started sometime after the inception of ESPN (1980), and aside from SI and ESPN (two American media outlets), there really isn't much else going on in the world, sports-wise.

They've been handing out ESPY's since the dark ages too: way back in 1993...


Piling ignorance upon ignorance..


One name? Merckx

 

[Anonymous]

Right, because cycling started sometime after the inception of ESPN (1980), and aside from SI and ESPN (two American media outlets), there really isn't much else going on in the world, sports-wise.

They've been handing out ESPY's since the sark ages: way back in 1993...


Piling igonorance upon ignorance..


One name? Merckx

Amazing isn't it? The world of cycling only started when Mike started paying attention.

 

[MD FACG FACP]

The ESPY awards ?

I hope that is sarcasm.

 

[Berzin]

As a doctor, I have seen Lance's influence on patients confronted with a cancer diagnosis. Lying in the anesthetic bay scared about what's going to confront them on the other side of the operation. They'll have read a Lance quote or even a book, and they hope. No way I'm taking that from them.

Cut the crap. If you truly were a doctor you would know this type of melodramatic scenario is bogus. It sounds like something that would come out of the LAF marketing department.

The Armstrong Foundation utilizes cancer patients to sell more merchandise and is a vehicle for Armstrong to market himself. If this foundation ceased to exist tomorrow, the ripple effect within the cancer community would be nil.

 

[mad black]

You're confusing spectators with participants:

In Australia the figures joining CA have increased year on year with the biggest increases before LA.

2010: 19,875.
2009: 19,156.
2008: 17,665.
2007: 15,987.
2006: 14,534.
2005: 12,437.

Ok, you're a nitpicker. But i can do the same. At what point do you make the connection between CA members and popularity of cycling? If you're not racing there's no point in joining.

And for the record. TDU SPECTATOR numbers (Please note the significant increase from 2008 to 2009.):

2011 - 772,000 http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/record-crowds-for-santos-tour-down-under
2010 - 770,500 http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/tour/faq#17
2009 - 760,500 http://www.tourism.sa.gov.au/news/article.asp?NewsID=450
2008 - 548,000 (no Armstrong) http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/news/show/64-2009-tour-down-under-dates-confirmed

 

[fujisst]

deontologist > consequentialist.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Ok, you're a nitpicker. But i can do the same. At what point do you make the connection between CA members and popularity of cycling? If you're not racing there's no point in joining.

And for the record. TDU SPECTATOR numbers (Please note the significant increase from 2008 to 2009.):

2011 - 772,000 http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/record-crowds-for-santos-tour-down-under
2010 - 770,500 http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/tour/faq#17
2009 - 760,500 http://www.tourism.sa.gov.au/news/article.asp?NewsID=450
2008 - 548,000 (no Armstrong) http://www.bikeexchange.com.au/news/show/64-2009-tour-down-under-dates-confirmed

Spectators are spectators - they are not cyclists.

I am not suprised that Mike Ranns figures increased - I like the way the crowd only come in 500's.
If you really want me to nit-pick then its the biggest percentage increase you missed from 2007 (357,000) to 2008 (548,000).

 

[Hmmmmm]

Cut the crap. If you truly were a doctor you would know this type of melodramatic scenario is bogus. It sounds like something that would come out of the LAF marketing department.

The Armstrong Foundation utilizes cancer patients to sell more merchandise and is a vehicle for Armstrong to market himself. If this foundation ceased to exist tomorrow, the ripple effect within the cancer community would be nil.

I'm sitting here reading this thread at 10:30 at night in my neck of the woods and relaying certain posts to my girlfriend to get her opinion. She is in the medical field and she is not a cyclist. I am a cyclist, not in the medical field, and a cancer survivor. My girlfriend just said you are a genious Berzin

I had to look up the definition of awareness to satisfy my curiosity. I don't think LA has raised cancer awareness. I think he should put his money where his mouth is and put enough money away for his kids' future and then start privately funding the cancer treatment for people who can not afford it. Don't tell everyone you are doing it. Just do it. I have no idea how this could or should be done, but the man has a hell of a lot of money that could be put to good use.

Why does it take an athlete, or what we call an "important person" to give us hope. People are so shallow brained these days it is pathetic. FFS, when I was undergoing treatment just knowing that someone, anyone, had survived gave me hope. Not enough for some people. Got to get that inspiration from someone off the boob tube, or a sports "hero", or whatever. Just look down the street you live on and I bet there is someone who survived. Draw hope from that. All Lance Armstrong does for a living is ride a f#cking bicycle and earn interest on the money he has made and continues to make due to his "star" status. That's it.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I'm sitting here reading this thread at 10:30 at night in my neck of the woods and relaying certain posts to my girlfriend to get her opinion. She is in the medical field and she is not a cyclist. I am a cyclist, not in the medical field, and a cancer survivor. My girlfriend just said you are a genious Berzin

I had to look up the definition of awareness to satisfy my curiosity. I don't think LA has raised cancer awareness. I think he should put his money where his mouth is and put enough money away for his kids' future and then start privately funding the cancer treatment for people who can not afford it. Don't tell everyone you are doing it. Just do it. I have no idea how this could or should be done, but the man has a hell of a lot of money that could be put to good use.

Why does it take an athlete, or what we call an "important person" to give us hope. People are so shallow brained these days it is pathetic. FFS, when I was undergoing treatment just knowing that someone, anyone, had survived gave me hope. Not enough for some people. Got to get that inspiration from someone off the boob tube, or a sports "hero", or whatever. Just look down the street you live on and I bet there is someone who survived. Draw hope from that. All Lance Armstrong does for a living is ride a f#cking bicycle and earn interest on the money he has made and continues to make due to his "star" status. That's it.

+1 agree with all you said. Well all but the part about Berzin being a genius.

 

[onefastgear]

Cut the crap. If you truly were a doctor you would know this type of melodramatic scenario is bogus. It sounds like something that would come out of the LAF marketing department.

The Armstrong Foundation utilizes cancer patients to sell more merchandise and is a vehicle for Armstrong to market himself. If this foundation ceased to exist tomorrow, the ripple effect within the cancer community would be nil.

Berzin - no crap. I am a doctor. Link to my registration here, nothing to hide.

The scenario I talked about has happened to me, on more than one occasion. People identify with his 'fight'. They like his quotes (probably all ghostwritten). If LA went away tomorrow the mortality from cancer would not change one bit.

I agree with your other comments. I think we're on the same side of the fence.

 

[Hmmmmm]

+1 agree with all you said. Well all but the part about Berzin being a genius.

My girlfriend made the comment about Berzin, not me.