Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread

[laarsland]

That's just nonsense. They were offered a rider, who they got told was free of contract. They actually waited a long time to sign him, until the contract issues were resolved (according to the Van Aert camp at least). They even waited for confirmation by the UCI. Any other team would have operated exactly the same.

This scummy team could have held Roglic to his existing contract, like Bora are apparently doing now with Uijtdebroeks. You would have loved that, I assume?

...so you're saying that there is no due dilligence required on Jumbo's part when told a rider who's originally under contract is suddenly available to sign?

There are probably a few plot twists left in this and information kept to be leaked later by both (or all three) sides, but what we're seeing is the negotiation for the coming settlement played out in the open, no?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Why would it be payback for poaching Roglic? Pretty sure Roglic wanted out and Jumbo were happy to let him go.
Jumbo want Uijtdebroeks for his talent and not as payback.

Do you believe we would be discussing this right now and in such way if Bora wouldn't poach Roglič? Could be. But i personally doubt it.

 

[Leadbelly]

I listened in radio Farodeportes that Quintero had several offers on the table. However, I am a bit surprised he ends up at IPT Devo honestly. Anyway, fair play to him!

I find it a bit hard to eveluate his potential. Obviously he won Vuelta del Porvenir were his GC triumph was foundated off an exellent TT preformance.

He was second on GC and won the queen-stage up the cat-1 climb to Santuario at Ruben Dario Gomez (in Riseralda).

He won 2 stage victories from sprints in Micro Vuelta al Valle, which talks for him beeing a very well rounded young prospect.

He also has pedegree on the track. Both in the IP and Points.Race!

His uncle Luis Carlos rode for Pony Malta BTW. In 1993, during the Vuelta de la Juventud, while wearing the leaders jersey for (Metas Volantes) he crashed dramaticaly in a corner during the last stage and almost lost his life. Today 30 years after he works as a civil enginere.

Anyways, I am actually exicted to see how Israel will further booster their fedder for next year.

Excellent, many thanks for the background info on him. Always difficult to get much of a handle on a rider from just a few results on First.

I reckon there should be an announcement soon for the full devo team. Even if we can probably 95% guess it (or know through rumours).

 

[StryderHells]

Do you believe we would be discussing this right now and in such way if Bora wouldn't poach Roglič? Could be. But i personally doubt it.

Would we be discussing a talented young GC rider trying to break a contract to go to another team? Yes I believe we would be talking about that with or without Roglic.
Not everything is about him.

 

[laarsland]

Would we be discussing a talented young GC rider trying to break a contract to go to another team? Yes I believe we would be talking about that with or without Roglic.
Not everything is about him.

More likely the freed up funds/squad space by Roglic being the catalyst for this than spite.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Would we be discussing a talented young GC rider trying to break a contract to go to another team? Yes I believe we would be talking about that with or without Roglic.
Not everything is about him.

OK then. Roglič was a non factor in this story.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Oh Richard what have you done, this is a major new-entry on the list

 

[CyclistAbi]

Jumbo will likely always sit rather well with Slovenians. The next big thing, after Jumbo, well that team still has one Slovenian riding for them. So lets see how that goes.

As for this specific hostile takeover. Regarding Cian. In the end the whole story kind of baffles me. Such aggressive and likely not legal move. From PR point of view this indeed is rather bad. And all this could be avoided with a bit of patience. But OK it is what it is.

 

[CyclistAbi]

All in all it looks like the season started early. Bora and Visma already at it 110%. Will UAE or SOQ be able to capitalize on that?

Looking forward to that.

 

[theyoungest]

...so you're saying that there is no due dilligence required on Jumbo's part when told a rider who's originally under contract is suddenly available to sign?

There are probably a few plot twists left in this and information kept to be leaked later by both (or all three) sides, but what we're seeing is the negotiation for the coming settlement played out in the open, no?

This was a reaction to a guy calling them a scummy team, referring to the Van Aert case, where they waited for confirmation from the UCI that he was free to sign. What more due diligence do you need? They weren't a party in the court case that followed.

The story is probably a little different this time, although the timing of the press release could have something to do with the training camp they're leaving on tomorrow. If Uijtdebroeks was there the news would have leaked anyway.

 

[valentius borealis]

This was a reaction to a guy calling them a scummy team, referring to the Van Aert case, where they waited for confirmation from the UCI that he was free to sign. What more due diligence do you need? They weren't a party in the court case that followed.

The story is probably a little different this time, although the timing of the press release could have something to do with the training camp they're leaving on tomorrow. If Uijtdebroeks was there the news would have leaked anyway.

I seem to remember a premature merger announcement in that saga too.

 

[Rob5091]

If you think the Cian saga is something, wait until all the wonder kids at UAE realize they're all fighting for the last place on the team for the UAE Tour etc. Contracts will be broken left, right and center.

 

[joseph89]

Maybe time for a draft system for neo pros, because talent stockpiling on long term contracts is slowly killing the sport.

 

[Netserk]

Maybe time for a draft system for neo pros, because talent stockpiling on long term contracts is slowly killing the sport.

The sport is not dead nor is it dying. The system works.

 

[joseph89]

The sport is not dead nor is it dying. The system works.

if low budget teams aren't able to compete for the signatures of top talent because a handful of teams are able to offer long term deals and stockpile the best of the best, then where is the value for their sponsors.

 

[RedheadDane]

if low budget teams aren't able to compete for the signatures of top talent because a handful of teams are able to offer long term deals and stockpile the best of the best, then where is the value for their sponsors.

But your suggestions carries the risk of a young rider having to spend two years on a team that really doesn't fit.

 

[joseph89]

But your suggestions carries the risk of a young rider having to spend two years on a team that really doesn't fit.

A draft system could involve trades etc, no suggestion is perfect from the get go. But beats having all talent stockpiled in 3 or 4 teams.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Maybe time for a draft system for neo pros, because talent stockpiling on long term contracts is slowly killing the sport.

Yeah no, this is not America. People get to decide where and for who they wanna ride. I never understood how a nation so focussed on freedom accepts how athletes get tossed around like chess-pieces.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Yeah no, this is not America. People get to decide where and for who they wanna ride. I never understood how a nation so focussed on freedom accepts how athletes get tossed around like chess-pieces.

Furthermore, there are a number of stupid reasons this won't work in cycling.

1: The wages are not high enough to justify switching riders mid-season and forcing them to move or throw over their entire schedule.
2: Riders switching bikes, outfits, food-sponsors mid-season? Yeah, that's not going to affect them.
3: Pretty sure it collides with a number of European labor laws, atleast I can name 5 Belgian ones to start with.
4: Imagine the top draft prospect being a Belgian Classics guy, and the worst performing WT-team being Movistar, you want to force him to ride on a *** Classics team for 3 years, whilst Movistar gets very little sponsorship return on investment? "Yeah, but they should have drafted somebody else" is going to be the argument then, but if they did we would all go "Oh, they should have drafted rider X".
5: Imagine getting drafted to DSM

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The sport is not dead nor is it dying. The system works.

They say your teachings are misleading, Supply Side Jesus, and they make the rich richer and the poor poorer!

But Pilate, average income is going up!

 

[theyoungest]

Yeah no, this is not America. People get to decide where and for who they wanna ride. I never understood how a nation so focussed on freedom accepts how athletes get tossed around like chess-pieces.

The USA has a winner takes all mentality everywhere, except in sports

 

[joseph89]

Furthermore, there are a number of stupid reasons this won't work in cycling.

1: The wages are not high enough to justify switching riders mid-season and forcing them to move or throw over their entire schedule.
2: Riders switching bikes, outfits, food-sponsors mid-season? Yeah, that's not going to affect them.
3: Pretty sure it collides with a number of European labor laws, atleast I can name 5 Belgian ones to start with.
4: Imagine the top draft prospect being a Belgian Classics guy, and the worst performing WT-team being Movistar, you want to force him to ride on a *** Classics team for 3 years, whilst Movistar gets very little sponsorship return on investment? "Yeah, but they should have drafted somebody else" is going to be the argument then, but if they did we would all go "Oh, they should have drafted rider X".
5: Imagine getting drafted to DSM

TL;DR

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Furthermore, there are a number of stupid reasons this won't work in cycling.

1: The wages are not high enough to justify switching riders mid-season and forcing them to move or throw over their entire schedule.
2: Riders switching bikes, outfits, food-sponsors mid-season? Yeah, that's not going to affect them.
3: Pretty sure it collides with a number of European labor laws, atleast I can name 5 Belgian ones to start with.
4: Imagine the top draft prospect being a Belgian Classics guy, and the worst performing WT-team being Movistar, you want to force him to ride on a *** Classics team for 3 years, whilst Movistar gets very little sponsorship return on investment? "Yeah, but they should have drafted somebody else" is going to be the argument then, but if they did we would all go "Oh, they should have drafted rider X".
5: Imagine getting drafted to DSM

Even if it didn't cause legal problems with European labour laws, you simply have the problem that it cannot work until the top level is fully locked. This would mean that the WT teams cannot enter races where teams outside the WT compete (otherwise it offers unfair opportunities to gain points), and that teams outside the WT cannot enter races where the WT teams compete lest they prejudice the WT competitions.

Only then could they enter a draft situation. And then you're going to have the problem of, who is eligible for the draft? People like Peter Sagan, Juan Ayuso, Tadej Pogačar and Arnaud de Lie have shown that holding the draft post-espoirs, like NFL, is simply too late, because you can't put those guys through years of U23s when they're clearly ready to go up earlier. But if you hold the draft at, say, 18 or 19 when they come out of juniors, then you're going to need a whole system to be implemented of affiliate teams and loan contracts to help riders develop as they don't develop at the same pace, more akin to hockey, where teams will draft players, and they will stay with junior teams, go to college, or stay with their teams outside of that system (usually applicable to Europeans and any other KHL types, though I don't recall too many drafted Kazakhs or Chinese from KHL teams) until they're ready to hit the main team. Even then, almost all NHL teams have at least one, usually two, lower league affiliate teams that they shuffle players around.

It would probably render the ProTeam level irrelevant because either they just do their own thing and some of their riders are just loanees from WT teams who have a say in how they use them, or they end up just signing up to be affiliates to WT teams who just stockpile their lesser riders and espoirs there.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

TL;DR

Let me put it in words you will understand.

The world is not the USA.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

The USA has a winner takes all mentality everywhere, except in sports

and in Vietnam, Afghanistan...