The GT pecking order: Where they stand and how can it change?

[Libertine Seguros]

Great analysis and metaphor

part of the vuelta's problem is that, as you say, the August heat makes it difficult to race spectacularly for 3 weeks. It may be sacrilegious but is there a case to be made for shortening the race to a more intense two weeks. Or even one week? It seems difficult to fit the race in earlier in the year because of the Spring Classics, then the Giro, then the Tour. And the Vuelta always suffers from a higher attrition rate because some riders use the race as preparation for the World's. It seems to me that the Vuelta is set up to be the fall guy in August due to the Spanish climate and the date for the World's.

I wonder if moving the World's forward to August and the Vuelta back to start in September give the Vuelta the opportunity to make itself a better race?

There is a case to be made for reducing the Vuelta in length, but that case is stupid and should be summarily dismissed.

Once you shorten it once, it's no longer sacrosanct, and then, where does it end? There's rumblings of turning the once-three-weeks-long Volta a Portugal into a one week race, which would be its 3rd shortening.

The Vuelta shouldn't be allowed to go the same way. It's galling to watch it happen to the Volta, but the Volta has never, ever had the international clout and prestige of the Vuelta.

Is the Vuelta the runt of the GT litter? Most definitely. But it's still part of the GT litter, and should not be reduced, not now and not ever, and especially not for one of Pat McQuaid's pathetic little pet projects.

The big problem with the heat is that, starting in late August, ideally you'd want to start in the north, because long flat stages in the south will be punishing, few riders will be willing to go on the attack (hence why you see plenty of "those" stages, usually in Andalucía, with a sole rider usually from the local team up the road) and few fans can withstand the heat to watch anywhere on the route except the start and finish. But the north is where almost all the best mountains are, so you'd want to be there at the end of two weeks to utilise them at the business end of the race; the north is also where most of the fans are of course, so you'd want to put the key stages where the most fans will go and watch.

 

[LugHugger]

There is a case to be made for reducing the Vuelta in length, but that case is stupid and should be summarily dismissed.

Once you shorten it once, it's no longer sacrosanct, and then, where does it end? There's rumblings of turning the once-three-weeks-long Volta a Portugal into a one week race, which would be its 3rd shortening.

The Vuelta shouldn't be allowed to go the same way. It's galling to watch it happen to the Volta, but the Volta has never, ever had the international clout and prestige of the Vuelta.

Is the Vuelta the runt of the GT litter? Most definitely. But it's still part of the GT litter, and should not be reduced, not now and not ever, and especially not for one of Pat McQuaid's pathetic little pet projects.

The big problem with the heat is that, starting in late August, ideally you'd want to start in the north, because long flat stages in the south will be punishing, few riders will be willing to go on the attack (hence why you see plenty of "those" stages, usually in Andalucía, with a sole rider usually from the local team up the road) and few fans can withstand the heat to watch anywhere on the route except the start and finish. But the north is where almost all the best mountains are, so you'd want to be there at the end of two weeks to utilise them at the business end of the race; the north is also where most of the fans are of course, so you'd want to put the key stages where the most fans will go and watch.

So, some calendar juggling might help. Hold the Worlds at the start of September. I suppose you might need to start the Vuelta in the middle of September to bring the crowds out in the South for the beginning stages? I was in Murcia briefly 3 weeks ago and the temperature wasn't too bad - mid to high 20's most of the time.

 

[Arnout]

Tour will be bigger always. That said, I've noticed talking to relatively casual Dutch cycling fans (your average July watcher) that interest in the Giro has been on the rise the past few years. It helps that it's live on telly for us Dutchies too thanks to Sporza, but still, people recognize the value of the Giro.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Just giving my opinion about Kloden to gregrowlerson (Kloden´s huge fan), who iniciated this thread. I also like Kloden very much but it´s obviously that seeing him fighting for a gt in this phase of his carreer... it´s not going to happen

Any posts about Andreas Kloden are most welcome in ANY of my threads

I like the suggestion to have the World Championships moved to earlier and then have the Vuelta start in mid September. Also I agree that the race appears to suffer in comparison to the other 2 GT's by rarely having multiple (Queen) mountain stages.

 

[gregrowlerson]

It's like a band putting together an album. The Vuelta is a band who have some great, catchy singles, and fill the first half of the album with them, but then the album peters out with some unnecessary filler towards the end leading the album to sell well at first then free-fall out of the charts; the Tour is a band who have a couple of great, epic songs, and put them near the end of the album, so you want to listen again after it finishes, even though the first half of the album is pretty dreary fare; the Giro is a one-track concept album which rises and falls and is beloved of musos, but doesn't have the commercial clout.

I like this metaphor too.

Keep the Vuelta as a 3 week race, even if it is hot. Actually having it be really hot is possibly a good thing; not for the riders mind you, but to differentiate it from the other GT's.

 

[RownhamHill]

Lots of people on these boards say how much they love the Giro, and it's miles better than the TDF. And yet a day after the routes of both races have been leaked, there's pages and pages of TDF chat, in about three different threads, while there are about 15 posts on the Giro route in total.

Tells its own story about the grand tour pecking order maybe?

 

[Zoncolan]

Nobody said the Giro stood higher in pecking order, we just like it better. Tour will always be the biggest race of the calendar.
BTW: another reason the Tour got so many responses is because the course is somewhat controversial - not a lot of chances for pure climbers, in contrast to previous years.

 

[spalco]

Regardless of whether the Giro is tougher than the Vuelta or not, one thing it definitively has in its favour imo is the local people's enthusiasm. The Italians love the Giro, the Spaniards seem mostly indifferent towards the Vuelta despite being maybe the strongest nation in the sport lately. That simply makes the Giro more interesting imo.

 

[Zoncolan]

Regardless of whether the Giro is tougher than the Vuelta or not, one thing it definitively has in its favour imo is the local people's enthusiasm. The Italians love the Giro, the Spaniards seem mostly indifferent towards the Vuelta despite being maybe the strongest nation in the sport lately. That simply makes the Giro more interesting imo.

Add to that: Giro has a century of history, like the Tour. Vuelta?
Giro has Coppi and Bartali, Tour Anquetil and Poulidor. Vuelta?
Vuelta can turn up a surprise on certain years and be a very good race, but it will never rival the other two.