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The Hour

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Darryl Webster said:
Mercx ......... His power output ( estimated?) was the higest of all hour records. ...

Where did you get that idea from? I have read it elsewhere but it does not make a lot of sense.

In the first place, because he was in Mexico, at 2230 m asl (although nobody gave the exact barometric pressure that day), his power output was 10% lower than at sea-level and I find it hard to believe that he could possibly have been more than 10% better than everybody else.
See also reference cited by Function above.

In all likelihood the highest power for one hour was either by Indurain or Rominger.

Here is the abstract of Padilla's paper
Scientific approach to the 1-h cycling world record: a case study.
Padilla S, Mujika I, Angulo F, Goiriena JJ.
SourceDepartamento de Investigación y Desarrollo, Servicios Médicos, Athletic Club de Bilbao, Basque Country, Spain.

Erratum in
J Appl Physiol 2000 Dec;89(6):following table of contents.
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to describe the physiological and aerodynamic characteristics and the preparation for a successful attempt to break the 1-h cycling world record. An elite professional road cyclist (30 yr, 188 cm, 81 kg) performed an incremental laboratory test to assess maximal power output (W(max)) and power output (W(OBLA)), estimated speed (V(OBLA)), and heart rate (HR(OBLA)) at the onset of blood lactate accumulation (OBLA). He also completed an incremental velodrome (cycling track) test (VT1), during which V(OBLAVT1) and HR(OBLAVT1) were measured and W(OBLAVT1) was estimated. W(max) was 572 W, W(OBLA) 505 W, V(OBLA) 52.88 km/h, and HR(OBLA) 183 beats/min. V(OBLAVT1), HR(OBLAVT1), and W(OBLAVT1) were 52.7 km/h, 180 beats/min, and 500.6 W, respectively. Drag coefficient and shape coefficient, measured in a wind tunnel, were 0. 244 and 0.65 m(2), respectively. The cyclist set a world record of 53,040 m, with an estimated average power output of 509.5 W. Based on direct laboratory data of the power vs. oxygen uptake relationship for this cyclist, this is slightly higher than the 497. 25 W corresponding to his oxygen uptake at OBLA (5.65 l/min). In conclusion, 1) the 1-h cycling world record is the result of the interaction between physiological and aerodynamic characteristics; and 2) performance in this event can be predicted using mathematical models that integrate the principal performance-determining variables.
 
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Exroadman24902 said:
..didn't mr obree go twice in one day and not at altitude and drug free. Thought you would like a Brit..but then again, did he smash all your TT records?

:D..Obree`s rides were suberbe I just think Merckx`s ride remains the best, for the reasons I gave. Graham was a true "one of" and Im sure he did "smash" a few of my TT records...but If you knew me you`d know for me personaly TT records never meant much..far to many variables on the day etc and not somthing I ever chased.
Regards Merck`s ( estimated), power output...like I said they were estimated...opinions vary!.
Its all rather subjective, we all have our faves...Merckx was mine.:p
 
Darryl Webster said:
:D..Obree`s rides were suberbe I just think Merckx`s ride remains the best, for the reasons I gave. Graham was a true "one of" and Im sure he did "smash" a few of my TT records...but If you knew me you`d know for me personaly TT records never meant much..far to many variables on the day etc and not somthing I ever chased.
Regards Merck`s ( estimated), power output...like I said they were estimated...opinions vary!.
Its all rather subjective, we all have our faves...Merckx was mine.:p

Merckx is the greatest cyclist to ever throw his leg over a bike.

He has to take second best*, as far as the hour is concerned though.

Incidentally, Merckx had an aerodynamic advantage in the helmet he was using at the time. UCI regs for Boardmans attempt meant that he had to use a modern day helmet. The difference in the hairnet style helmet vs a modern day non aero helmet in testing was significant.

*Sosenkas record can not be taken seriously.
 
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Riders quit riding it out of fear of testing. It has nothing to do with needing to wrap your season around training for it. The only person I know who wrapped a season around it was Obree and athletically I believe he was at a slight disadvantage.

I believe that all the talk about it being painful and the worst thing ever was stuff to scare other people away from breaking your record. Every cyclist has ridden to exhaustion. Any cyclist can give everything for an hour.

If they wanted to attract more attention to it, they might want to let the record holder or the current champion put a little clock or something on their jersey. Something to show what they did. Sort of like the world champ jersey but just a visible decal.
 
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Just a reminder.....

St. Eddy was offered a disk wheel by Mavic but refused to try it.
St. Eddy could have blood boosted as Lassi Viren had swept the 1972 Olympics as a pioneer in blood boosting (as they used to call it, now it's doping).
St. Eddy rode on day 10 post arrival at altitude...it is now known that this is the nadir for acclimatization.
St. Eddy suffered super lactate from his FAST start breaking all those world records in the first 20 minutes.
St. Eddy had flexible wheels with 24 spokes, clips/straps, 250m track....

He had a lot more disadvantages if you really need to know.
He's still the KING!
 
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UncleChainwhip said:
Just a reminder.....

St. Eddy was offered a disk wheel by Mavic but refused to try it.
St. Eddy could have blood boosted as Lassi Viren had swept the 1972 Olympics as a pioneer in blood boosting (as they used to call it, now it's doping).
St. Eddy rode on day 10 post arrival at altitude...it is now known that this is the nadir for acclimatization.
St. Eddy suffered super lactate from his FAST start breaking all those world records in the first 20 minutes.
St. Eddy had flexible wheels with 24 spokes, clips/straps, 250m track....

He had a lot more disadvantages if you really need to know.
He's still the KING!

You forgot about the amphetamines he was hopped up on when he broke the record.
 

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Zweistein said:
You forgot about the amphetamines he was hopped up on when he broke the record.

Not. If Eddy was, there would be no advantage in the hour effort.
Eddy broke the record at the end of a tough season, winning the Giro,Tour and four classics plus numerous other races, no breaks like today's riders. Boardman beat Eddy's record by 10 meters, after retiring from competition,and specially prepared for the hour. He had no altitude training and only a day to adjust to 7550ft. + Mexico D.F. elevation. He rode an ultralight Colnago steel frame with traditional toe clips.
As this is a doping column, it is important to realize the true talent of the cyclists, as well as the possibility of doping.
There are many, many other facets to cycling other than doping. Indivdual pursuit and the HOUR, are some of the purist forms of cycling racing. Except, choke Moser's choke hour. That is a chemically induced hour.
 
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DISTRICT 9 said:
Not. If Eddy was, there would be no advantage in the hour effort.
Eddy broke the record at the end of a tough season, winning the Giro,Tour and four classics plus numerous other races, no breaks like today's riders. Boardman beat Eddy's record by 10 meters, after retiring from competition,and specially prepared for the hour. He had no altitude training and only a day to adjust to 7550ft. + Mexico D.F. elevation. He rode an ultralight Colnago steel frame with traditional toe clips.
As this is a doping column, it is important to realize the true talent of the cyclists, as well as the possibility of doping.
There are many, many other facets to cycling other than doping. Indivdual pursuit and the HOUR, are some of the purist forms of cycling racing. Except, choke Moser's choke hour. That is a chemically induced hour.

I understand if you like Merckx but for an hour Boardman was every bit as good as Merckx. The record that Boardman set at sea level was more difficult than that set altitude. I still don't know why Boardman choose that location.

As far as fully dedicating to training for the hour, I believe this is bunk. The rule has been that people who have broken the record didn't fully dedicate a season to training for it.

Also, it may be mentally difficult but it isn't physically destroying. Obree did two runs in less than 24 hours. Riding a 3 week tour takes much longer to recover from than a crack at the hour record.

I also don't buy for a second that amphetamines don't help with your performance. Christ, up until the 90s they were very common.
 
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UncleChainwhip said:
Just a reminder.....

St. Eddy had flexible wheels with 24 spokes, clips/straps, 250m track....

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought the Mexico City track was a 333m wooden track - basically the same shape and surface as the old Saffron Lane track in Leicester.
 
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Darryl Webster said:
:D..Obree`s rides were suberbe I just think Merckx`s ride remains the best, for the reasons I gave. Graham was a true "one of" and Im sure he did "smash" a few of my TT records...but If you knew me you`d know for me personaly TT records never meant much..far to many variables on the day etc and not somthing I ever chased.
Regards Merck`s ( estimated), power output...like I said they were estimated...opinions vary!.
Its all rather subjective, we all have our faves...Merckx was mine.:p

I respect that he's your favourite, but it's not opinion, it's fact. Romantics love to think Merckx was the strongest (power output) cyclist ever, but that's really not the case.
 
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function said:
I respect that he's your favourite, but it's not opinion, it's fact. Romantics love to think Merckx was the strongest (power output) cyclist ever, but that's really not the case.

Im not realy concerned with wether or not Merckx had the bigest power output or not and as , as far as I know, figures are estimates I guess we`l never realy know. In the context of what he achieved in that season alone plus what would seem to be far from Ideal preperation from we now understand about the science he gets the thumbs up from me and clearly many others. My respect for Merckx is limited to what he did on the bike , no more. For my true fave "great" it has to be Lemond and thats more about the man not the rider.
 
andy1234 said:
Im not claiming his record can't be broken. Every record can be broken.

Armstrong and Cancellara allegedly both did some testing against the hour record, but neither went ahead with it.
Riding clean, its a record that would not be easy to beat, by anyone.
Riding doped, the rider risks the question, "Are you prepared to store your samples for retrospective testing?"

Sosenka had nothing to lose, the big names do....

Hahaha, as if Eddy Merckx was clean when he set the record by the way.
Hilarious. Those riders were doped up till the max. From the Merckx era doping didn't even get properly punished. They got a money fine or a time penalty and then they'd move on.

Hilarious to see that as a clean performance
 
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Hahaha, as if Eddy Merckx was clean when he set the record by the way.
Hilarious. Those riders were doped up till the max. From the Merckx era doping didn't even get properly punished. They got a money fine or a time penalty and then they'd move on.

Hilarious to see that as a clean performance

I didn't claim that Merckx was clean, so I'm not sure where you are getting your laughs.
The athletes hour record set by Boardman was clean though.
 
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Lack of possitives re any ride isnt proof of being clean, ask Marion Jones.:rolleyes:

What we do know about the pre EPO era is that the drugs of the time were no where near the performance enhancers of the modern pharmacutical era and they DIDNT increase the actual limitating factor ...Oxygon. Rather they supressed pain and perhaps in some instances gave more strength ...but as cycling is predominanty a cardio vasculer sport the advantages ( and its debatable if they were real) were ****** all compared to say those gained in weightlifing.
Estimates put em at 1...1.5%....no where near the ( very conservative) figure of 5% + of EPO.
 
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Moser concrete 333m with a Italian surfacing job in the sprint lane that was removed promptly after the records. Mexicans still have pieces of this hi-tech, non-static smooth plastic and cherish them like holy relics. St. Eddy 250m wooden S. Bros construct for the '68 Olympics. Two other tracks in the D.F.
 
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Boardman was great. Along with P. Keen he was a super lab rat. While he was knocking down all those records he should have taken the British outdoor Hour as Obree set that on a not so aero, spoked bike---years prior to his best form. At least now, M. Hutchison has something to live for besides another BBAR title. I guess Dangerfield, Dawson, Prebble, Yates and others never got around to it!
 
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Amphetamines? Not illegal in cycling until the mid '60's, not illegal in American pro sports until late 00's. St. Eddy just had better subterfuge as he WAS tested. Several hour riders were popped pre/post Eddy. The UCI was not in the pocket of big money corporations back then. Eros Poli attempted an amateur Hour record in the late '80's, funded by Cinelli to the tune of $100K. Mexican officials offered to switch urine samples for clean ones for $70,000.....E. Poli could not turn the split times clean nor come up with the money to cover augmentation, attempt was a failure. Everyone should be amazed then how Armstrong 'bought' his way around a positive test at the Tour de Suise for a paltry $100,000---pro vs amateur and 20+ years later....
 
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Plenty of studs have tried to do the Hour. Problem was they just could not turn the split times to even attempt it officially. Hinault tried several years, Fignon also---even going to South America, Lemond rented the Colorado Springs track for a couple of weeks, Armstrong and his droogies tested indoor at California, H.H. Orested went close in Mexico trials before fracturing his hand in a crash, G. Braun in Bolivia. Of course there are more but these are some i know of.....

Eddy was the BADDEST bad a**, period.
Could spew more, but i will leave you hungry for now......
Oh Benjo M.! Where are you when we need you???
 
Darryl Webster said:
Lack of possitives re any ride isnt proof of being clean, ask Marion Jones.:rolleyes:

What we do know about the pre EPO era is that the drugs of the time were no where near the performance enhancers of the modern pharmacutical era and they DIDNT increase the actual limitating factor ...Oxygon. Rather they supressed pain and perhaps in some instances gave more strength ...but as cycling is predominanty a cardio vasculer sport the advantages ( and its debatable if they were real) were ****** all compared to say those gained in weightlifing.
Estimates put em at 1...1.5%....no where near the ( very conservative) figure of 5% + of EPO.

I assume you are referring to Boardmans ride re the lack of positives?

As people on here like to join the dots, there are a million and one dots that say that he was clean. Probably as many as any professional, at any time.
 
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andy1234 said:
I assume you are referring to Boardmans ride re the lack of positives?

As people on here like to join the dots, there are a million and one dots that say that he was clean. Probably as many as any professional, at any time.

Not at all, just pointing out that lack of possitives ISNT proof . That sad state of afairs means that no one can be above suspition which is tragic for this and other sports because many of us become inclined to view many rides with jaundiced eyes.
Incidently...from failing to qualify in the World Champs to world record that only recently was beaten by Phiney is a heck of a jump in twelve months and realy should have garnered a bit more suspition and I know it most certainly would in the current climate but hey ho...we`l never know eh. :rolleyes:
 
Darryl Webster said:
Not at all, just pointing out that lack of possitives ISNT proof . That sad state of afairs means that no one can be above suspition which is tragic for this and other sports because many of us become inclined to view many rides with jaundiced eyes.
Incidently...from failing to qualify in the World Champs to world record that only recently was beaten by Phiney is a heck of a jump in twelve months and realy should have garnered a bit more suspition and I know it most certainly would in the current climate but hey ho...we`l never know eh. :rolleyes:

I agree, no one can be above suspicion Darryl, but if you are going to give the benefit of the doubt, then surely it is with Boardman?
Eddie Soens wasn't the kind of guy who said someone was going to be a world champion without good reason ;-)

Im not sure which record you are talking about by Phinney though?
 
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andy1234 said:
I agree, no one can be above suspicion Darryl, but if you are going to give the benefit of the doubt, then surely it is with Boardman?
Eddie Soens wasn't the kind of guy who said someone was going to be a world champion without good reason ;-)

Im not sure which record you are talking about by Phinney though?

4000m . Chris went from failing to qualify to world record in 12 months. Phinney got the record last season. I was mentored by Eddie, rode the last race he saw ( British Team Persuit Final) before he had a collapsed with a heart atack and died the folowing day. Im not aware Eddie said any such thing.
I genuinly would like to believe Chris was the real deal as Im sure most of us would. However...a little birdy whispered in my ear on day " micro dosing". And that little birdy was very close to the camp. Like I said we`l never know.
 
Boardman didn't just break the WR in 1996, he obliterated it. It must have been a 10 second turn around on his 1995 performance... a turnaround which you would almost say is beyond what doping could have done and could instead perhaps be explained by other factors.

It was Bobridge not Phinney who broke it this year Darryl!